JOs vs Junior Championships

[Anonymous]

I really don't understand the point of the Junior Championships in PVS. You have JOs which is 14&U, makes sense, age group championships. But then you have Junior Championships for 13&O swimmers.

The Junior Championships with equivalent times but with the added NST and NFT than times (assuming NST than the JO cut and NFT than the senior cut). Junior Championships has bonus events for the swimmers which JOs does not.

So you are a 13 or 14 year old making cuts in both meets, what are they supposed to do? I don't understand the pros and cons of these two meets or the intent. I think that all the clubs participate in both. I know that ours does, I just don't understand.

[Anonymous]

If you kid is 13-14 and has JO cuts, 99 percent of the time, they go to JO’s vs Jr champs. Jr champs is mostly 15 and over even though 13 and overs can swim

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you kid is 13-14 and has JO cuts, 99 percent of the time, they go to JO’s vs Jr champs. Jr champs is mostly 15 and over even though 13 and overs can swim[/quote

Why open it to 13 year olds?

Is it just a slower champs meet for teens?

[Anonymous]

I would ask my coach this question and get the coach’s guidance.

[Anonymous]

I agree it’s confusing.

If you look at prior year results, you’ll see that very few 13-14 swimmers swim at the PVS Junior Championship meet. Most coaches would prioritize the age group championship meet for swimmers that age.

They probably just allow younger swimmers in case they swim with an older group and the coach doesn’t want to do both meets.

[Anonymous]

Elite 14s will sometimes swim Senior Champs for the higher competition, and I think Junior Champs just share the same basic entry requirements as the Senior Champs. (They are swum together.)

Also, it is available for kids who turn 15 in the weekish before the 14u Champs (can't say JOs!).

99% of fast 13/14s swim 14u Champs.

[Anonymous]

Last year there were 14&Us that swam both 14&U and Senior champs. Maybe to space out their best events in addition to accessing better competition? There were also instances of swimmers swimming the same events at 14&U and sr champs (which I’m surprised is allowed).

[Anonymous]

Is that allowed? I didn’t think it was (swimming the same events at two Champs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is that allowed? I didn’t think it was (swimming the same events at two Champs).

You can’t swim the same event at jr and sr champs, but there isn’t an explicit rule about swimming the same event at 14&U and jr/sr champs. I looked it up last year, as I was surprised to see swimmers doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that allowed? I didn’t think it was (swimming the same events at two Champs).

You can’t swim the same event at jr and sr champs, but there isn’t an explicit rule about swimming the same event at 14&U and jr/sr champs. I looked it up last year, as I was surprised to see swimmers doing it.

I thought I saw it in the announcement this year that you cannot swim the same event at 14&u and junior champs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that allowed? I didn’t think it was (swimming the same events at two Champs).

You can’t swim the same event at jr and sr champs, but there isn’t an explicit rule about swimming the same event at 14&U and jr/sr champs. I looked it up last year, as I was surprised to see swimmers doing it.

I thought I saw it in the announcement this year that you cannot swim the same event at 14&u and junior champs.

I looked at the 2024 announcements and there is nothing that prevents a swimmer from swimming an event at both Senior champs and at 14U champs.

[Anonymous]

That annoys me. My guess is that some coaches won’t let kids swim both. It’s not really right but it is definitely an extra chance to get qualifying times for big meets (sectionals, NCSA etc.)

[Anonymous]

Okay wait: the meet announcement for the 2024 JUNIOR champs specifies that a swimmer cannot swim in events they are competing in at 14U champs. But nothing in there for SENIOR champs. That is bizarre and doesn’t seem right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay wait: the meet announcement for the 2024 JUNIOR champs specifies that a swimmer cannot swim in events they are competing in at 14U champs. But nothing in there for SENIOR champs. That is bizarre and doesn’t seem right.

Junior Champs is definitely the lesser of the 3 meets since the cuts appear to be the same as the 13-14 cuts at JOs, which is maybe why 13-14s can’t swim at both. I can see letting talented 13-14 year olds who qualify for both JOs and Senior champs test themselves against the older/stronger competition at Senior champs and also allowing them to compete against their age group, where they would be more likely to final.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That annoys me. My guess is that some coaches won’t let kids swim both. It’s not really right but it is definitely an extra chance to get qualifying times for big meets (sectionals, NCSA etc.)

The goal of Junior Champs isn’t really to give extra swims to 14s, though. It’s to have a meet for the “pretty good” 15s and 16s who maybe just aged up and aren’t hitting Senior Champs times. Also a lot of 15s and 16s may excel in stroke and rather than doing Senior Champs bonus events, they can let them swim more things at Junior Champs level. It’s really more like tiered seeding than separate meets.

If a 14 is fast enough to make Senior Champs, let em race. And Senior Champs times are faster than 14 NCSA times so there isn’t really a need for those kids to swim the event in both meets.

Otherwise 14s should just be swimming their 14u Champs.