Orchestra vs Band and race

[Anonymous]

My 3rd grader gets to pick one to do at school. I noticed at school assemblies that almost all the band members are white and the bast majority of orchestra members are Asian. Why don’t Asian kids take band? And given that the school is 70% white, why aren’t there more white kids in orchestra? I’m Asian and played clarinet in band as a kid but grew up in a white town and we didn’t have a school orchestra. These are the kinds of things I can’t talk about in real life so I would love to know what people really think about it. Are you seeing the same in your schools? I think it would be interesting if anyone has an article I could read about this.

[Anonymous]

I’m in a mixed family and I’ll be forthright and say that Asians look down on wind instruments with the exception (maaaybe) of flute. In East Asian immigrant cultures and in my native country, which was a former colonial country, piano and strings were widely adopted as aspirational western instruments that had positive associations with wealth, class and education. Band instruments were just something used in military bands or at nightclubs. So for highly educated but not wealthy families in my country, it would be like chasing a low-class lifestyle to take up a wind instrument.

Even now my family has prejudices against wind instruments and my mom makes disapproving noises when DD suggests she’ll take up the saxophone next year.

I can’t speak of all Asians, but my family is really snobby and uptight about signaling education and inner worth via hobbies and activities. Ballet class good, jazz class bad. Tennis good, soccer bad. Watercolor lessons good, pottery lessons bad. And so on.

[Anonymous]

I have four (white) kids and three of them participated in orchestra. There were plenty of other white kids in orchestra, as well as Asians, Hispanics, and black kids. My youngest went to a different high school than the older ones (both were public schools, there were boundary changes in our district) and the diversity in orchestra seemed similar at both schools.

[Anonymous]

At our school, strings in 4th grade was the first music option for kids, so that's what my Asian kids did. Band didn't start until 5th grade and seeing as how neither of my kids liked playing an instrument to begin with, they just stayed in strings.

FWIW, one quit after 7th grade and one after 6th. That one air played in his last concert. Neither has looked back since.

[Anonymous]

At my kid’s middle school & now in HS, band (including marching band) has kids who are white, black, Hispanic, Asian, everything. I don’t know the makeup of the orchestra, since they have separate concerts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a mixed family and I’ll be forthright and say that Asians look down on wind instruments with the exception (maaaybe) of flute. In East Asian immigrant cultures and in my native country, which was a former colonial country, piano and strings were widely adopted as aspirational western instruments that had positive associations with wealth, class and education. Band instruments were just something used in military bands or at nightclubs. So for highly educated but not wealthy families in my country, it would be like chasing a low-class lifestyle to take up a wind instrument.

Even now my family has prejudices against wind instruments and my mom makes disapproving noises when DD suggests she’ll take up the saxophone next year.

I can’t speak of all Asians, but my family is really snobby and uptight about signaling education and inner worth via hobbies and activities. Ballet class good, jazz class bad. Tennis good, soccer bad. Watercolor lessons good, pottery lessons bad. And so on.

Maybe this is specific to the first generation? I am married to a professional musician (woodwinds), we are also immigrants, although not Asian, and there are plenty of US born Asian woodwinds players these days. Also, speaking of the band, the US brass tradition is much more rich than in many other places. In my home country, the kids who couldn’t quite make it on other instruments were nudged toward brass. Here, talented kids chose brass.

[Anonymous]

What are differences between orchestra & bands in terms of instruments & performances? Excuse my silly question.

[Anonymous]

It's because you can start strings in preschool and you can't start winds and brass until later. And because Suzuki is strings, piano, and flute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are differences between orchestra & bands in terms of instruments & performances? Excuse my silly question.

Orchestra has strings and band doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a mixed family and I’ll be forthright and say that Asians look down on wind instruments with the exception (maaaybe) of flute. In East Asian immigrant cultures and in my native country, which was a former colonial country, piano and strings were widely adopted as aspirational western instruments that had positive associations with wealth, class and education. Band instruments were just something used in military bands or at nightclubs. So for highly educated but not wealthy families in my country, it would be like chasing a low-class lifestyle to take up a wind instrument.

Even now my family has prejudices against wind instruments and my mom makes disapproving noises when DD suggests she’ll take up the saxophone next year.

I can’t speak of all Asians, but my family is really snobby and uptight about signaling education and inner worth via hobbies and activities. Ballet class good, jazz class bad. Tennis good, soccer bad. Watercolor lessons good, pottery lessons bad. And so on.

Maybe this is specific to the first generation? I am married to a professional musician (woodwinds), we are also immigrants, although not Asian, and there are plenty of US born Asian woodwinds players these days. Also, speaking of the band, the US brass tradition is much more rich than in many other places. In my home country, the kids who couldn’t quite make it on other instruments were nudged toward brass. Here, talented kids chose brass.

Yes. My experience is 100% first generation and I think you’re right that second generation is different. And that’s probably the explanation for PP’s description of her kid’s very diverse orchestra and marching band. In suburbs where I live, the fancy suburbs where 2nd generation families gravitate are very diverse within their music programs. It’s the high-performing school districts with relatively affordable housing where 1st generation families follow more stereotypical patterns.

[Anonymous]

Band = wind and percussion. Think instruments you blow or beat. Clarinet, oboe, flute, saxophone, tuba, euphonium, drum, xylophone, glockenspiel…

Orchestra = *mostly string instruments* with a small section of wind and percussion. Large sections of violin, viola, and cello, accompanied by a couple of each of the other instruments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Band = wind and percussion. Think instruments you blow or beat. Clarinet, oboe, flute, saxophone, tuba, euphonium, drum, xylophone, glockenspiel…

Orchestra = *mostly string instruments* with a small section of wind and percussion. Large sections of violin, viola, and cello, accompanied by a couple of each of the other instruments

Nope.

Bands=marching
Orchestra=sitting down

That’s it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Band = wind and percussion. Think instruments you blow or beat. Clarinet, oboe, flute, saxophone, tuba, euphonium, drum, xylophone, glockenspiel…

Orchestra = *mostly string instruments* with a small section of wind and percussion. Large sections of violin, viola, and cello, accompanied by a couple of each of the other instruments

Nope.

Bands=marching
Orchestra=sitting down

That’s it

Marching band is different from band. Not all bands march. Bands also do not have any string instruments.

[Anonymous]

Orchestra is generally strings in schools. Orchestra privately is strings in the lower grades and come middle school adds wind instruments and percussion. Orchestra generally plays classical, band everything else with some classical mixed in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Band = wind and percussion. Think instruments you blow or beat. Clarinet, oboe, flute, saxophone, tuba, euphonium, drum, xylophone, glockenspiel…

Orchestra = *mostly string instruments* with a small section of wind and percussion. Large sections of violin, viola, and cello, accompanied by a couple of each of the other instruments

Nope.

Bands=marching
Orchestra=sitting down

That’s it

You are wrong and they are right. Early on orchestra is many strings and in MS/HS it opens up to a small selection of other instruments. Look at a real orchestra. Bands are more than just marching.