Poorly graded embryos, any hope for euploid?

[Anonymous]

Have only two CC grade embryos sent off for testing (a day 5 and a day 6). Is there any hope for euploid? Im 38 and diagnosed with unexplained secondary RPL. Now thinking it's egg quality.

[Anonymous]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6345636/

In future cycles you should consider transferring and saving the $$$ for PGS.

On a different forum there was a woman with a fixed transposition, made a bunch of garbage looking embryos, transferred the two best looking ones and got PG with twins.

Easier said than done, but distract yourself! Run out the clock

[Anonymous]

Embryo grading is borderline useless and it has very poor predictive validity regarding whether embryos are genetically normal. Which genetic testing company did the clinic send the biopsies to? I would recommend that you request that the clinic keep your embryos regardless of what the test results are. The accuracy of the genetic results are not 100% and you don’t want to give up any potential changes until you have kid(s) and are done with IVF. Also make sure to ask if any of the embryos test as genetic abnormal have mosaic aneuploidy. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1471491420303130#:~:text=PGT%2DA%20was%20never%20clinically,birth%20chances%20for%20many%20patients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Embryo grading is borderline useless and it has very poor predictive validity regarding whether embryos are genetically normal. Which genetic testing company did the clinic send the biopsies to? I would recommend that you request that the clinic keep your embryos regardless of what the test results are. The accuracy of the genetic results are not 100% and you don’t want to give up any potential changes until you have kid(s) and are done with IVF. Also make sure to ask if any of the embryos test as genetic abnormal have mosaic aneuploidy. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1471491420303130#:~:text=PGT%2DA%20was%20never%20clinically,birth%20chances%20for%20many%20patients.

Here’s an image that explains why PGT results can sometimes be inaccurate. The lab is sampling some cells from the trophectoderm (the outside of the embryo that becomes the placenta), but they do not sample inner cell mass that will become the baby. If the cells the samples cells in the trophectoderm have genetic issues, but the inner cell mass is genetically normal, you might reject a potentially viable embryo. This is more likely to occur when embryos have mosaicism (some of the cells are genetically normal and some are not).
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S1471491420303130-b1_lrg.jpg

[Anonymous]

I'm glad your clinic is at least considering CC graded embryos. For my last cycle I had 3 blasts, AA, BA, and CC. My clinic discarded the CC automatically and told me the CC won't even make it through the freeze/thaw so their protocol is to discard CC blasts. I've always heard grading is just a beauty contest, a lot of variability depending on the specific embryologist, so it sucks my clinic cares so much about the grading.

FWIW - My BA blast ended up being euploid, AA aneuploid. Throughout all my cycles, I've also had a BB that was aneuploid, AC that was euploid. I just ended my cycle with another euploid blast, this time it was graded AB.

[Anonymous]

One of my euploid embryos is a 6CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad your clinic is at least considering CC graded embryos. For my last cycle I had 3 blasts, AA, BA, and CC. My clinic discarded the CC automatically and told me the CC won't even make it through the freeze/thaw so their protocol is to discard CC blasts. I've always heard grading is just a beauty contest, a lot of variability depending on the specific embryologist, so it sucks my clinic cares so much about the grading.

FWIW - My BA blast ended up being euploid, AA aneuploid. Throughout all my cycles, I've also had a BB that was aneuploid, AC that was euploid. I just ended my cycle with another euploid blast, this time it was graded AB.

The clinic gets more money the more embryos they trash, also hold hands a little less with miscarriages and D+Cs.

I didn't know this about clinics before hand, but some of them do trash ugly embryos without asking. Others will not transfer a mosaic.

PGS testing actually lowers take-home baby rate. Think about it, how could it raise the take-home baby rate? It's not like it's fixing bad embryos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad your clinic is at least considering CC graded embryos. For my last cycle I had 3 blasts, AA, BA, and CC. My clinic discarded the CC automatically and told me the CC won't even make it through the freeze/thaw so their protocol is to discard CC blasts. I've always heard grading is just a beauty contest, a lot of variability depending on the specific embryologist, so it sucks my clinic cares so much about the grading.

FWIW - My BA blast ended up being euploid, AA aneuploid. Throughout all my cycles, I've also had a BB that was aneuploid, AC that was euploid. I just ended my cycle with another euploid blast, this time it was graded AB.

The clinic gets more money the more embryos they trash, also hold hands a little less with miscarriages and D+Cs.

I didn't know this about clinics before hand, but some of them do trash ugly embryos without asking. Others will not transfer a mosaic.

PGS testing actually lowers take-home baby rate. Think about it, how could it raise the take-home baby rate? It's not like it's fixing bad embryos

I agree with this. After many, may rounds of IVF I realized that the attrition rate was too high. They discard embryos that don’t look beautiful because there have been studies in the past that highly graded embryos tend to stick. I think the clinics are closely monitoring their stats and if only transferring beautiful embryos marginally improves their stats they will go with that- to the detriment of us who just want every chance possible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad your clinic is at least considering CC graded embryos. For my last cycle I had 3 blasts, AA, BA, and CC. My clinic discarded the CC automatically and told me the CC won't even make it through the freeze/thaw so their protocol is to discard CC blasts. I've always heard grading is just a beauty contest, a lot of variability depending on the specific embryologist, so it sucks my clinic cares so much about the grading.

FWIW - My BA blast ended up being euploid, AA aneuploid. Throughout all my cycles, I've also had a BB that was aneuploid, AC that was euploid. I just ended my cycle with another euploid blast, this time it was graded AB.

The clinic gets more money the more embryos they trash, also hold hands a little less with miscarriages and D+Cs.

I didn't know this about clinics before hand, but some of them do trash ugly embryos without asking. Others will not transfer a mosaic.

PGS testing actually lowers take-home baby rate. Think about it, how could it raise the take-home baby rate? It's not like it's fixing bad embryos

I agree with this. After many, may rounds of IVF I realized that the attrition rate was too high. They discard embryos that don’t look beautiful because there have been studies in the past that highly graded embryos tend to stick. I think the clinics are closely monitoring their stats and if only transferring beautiful embryos marginally improves their stats they will go with that- to the detriment of us who just want every chance possible

Yeah it turns out alot of people in infertility clinics are mostly going to make ugly embryos, go figure

[Anonymous]

My single surviving embryo, which was very low quality, is now in college.

[Anonymous]

Our 1 year old was a 3BB. I think there is subjectivity to the ID given. We did not do testing as it was a fresh transfer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our 1 year old was a 3BB. I think there is subjectivity to the ID given. We did not do testing as it was a fresh transfer.

Wanted to add that I did not think testing would help my chances. I know this is unscientific but I moved through the choices by instinct. After trying a frozen transfer I felt like I wanted to disrupt the embryo as little as possible with additional handling of it. Hence going the fresh and non testing route. Not at all saying to not freeze or not test, but wanted to share my experience in case it resonates with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad your clinic is at least considering CC graded embryos. For my last cycle I had 3 blasts, AA, BA, and CC. My clinic discarded the CC automatically and told me the CC won't even make it through the freeze/thaw so their protocol is to discard CC blasts. I've always heard grading is just a beauty contest, a lot of variability depending on the specific embryologist, so it sucks my clinic cares so much about the grading.

FWIW - My BA blast ended up being euploid, AA aneuploid. Throughout all my cycles, I've also had a BB that was aneuploid, AC that was euploid. I just ended my cycle with another euploid blast, this time it was graded AB.

The clinic gets more money the more embryos they trash, also hold hands a little less with miscarriages and D+Cs.

I didn't know this about clinics before hand, but some of them do trash ugly embryos without asking. Others will not transfer a mosaic.

PGS testing actually lowers take-home baby rate. Think about it, how could it raise the take-home baby rate? It's not like it's fixing bad embryos

I agree with this. After many, may rounds of IVF I realized that the attrition rate was too high. They discard embryos that don’t look beautiful because there have been studies in the past that highly graded embryos tend to stick. I think the clinics are closely monitoring their stats and if only transferring beautiful embryos marginally improves their stats they will go with that- to the detriment of us who just want every chance possible

You don’t see an ethical dilemma for clinics to transfer embryos that have a much higher rate of miscarriage, still birth, and, often, at best, death before 5 years old? These aren’t profit motivated decisions. Clinics aren’t just sapping you for all the money you have until you make the “perfect” embryo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad your clinic is at least considering CC graded embryos. For my last cycle I had 3 blasts, AA, BA, and CC. My clinic discarded the CC automatically and told me the CC won't even make it through the freeze/thaw so their protocol is to discard CC blasts. I've always heard grading is just a beauty contest, a lot of variability depending on the specific embryologist, so it sucks my clinic cares so much about the grading.

FWIW - My BA blast ended up being euploid, AA aneuploid. Throughout all my cycles, I've also had a BB that was aneuploid, AC that was euploid. I just ended my cycle with another euploid blast, this time it was graded AB.

The clinic gets more money the more embryos they trash, also hold hands a little less with miscarriages and D+Cs.

I didn't know this about clinics before hand, but some of them do trash ugly embryos without asking. Others will not transfer a mosaic.

PGS testing actually lowers take-home baby rate. Think about it, how could it raise the take-home baby rate? It's not like it's fixing bad embryos

I agree with this. After many, may rounds of IVF I realized that the attrition rate was too high. They discard embryos that don’t look beautiful because there have been studies in the past that highly graded embryos tend to stick. I think the clinics are closely monitoring their stats and if only transferring beautiful embryos marginally improves their stats they will go with that- to the detriment of us who just want every chance possible

You don’t see an ethical dilemma for clinics to transfer embryos that have a much higher rate of miscarriage, still birth, and, often, at best, death before 5 years old? These aren’t profit motivated decisions. Clinics aren’t just sapping you for all the money you have until you make the “perfect” embryo.

Should not be the clinic's decision to make. The woman suffering the potential miscarriage should get to make the call

[Anonymous]

Why aren't clinics just doing full genome sequencing? Wouldn’t it be nice to know an embryo’s risk for cancer, low iq, mental illness, etc?