Seizures and addiction question

[Anonymous]

I have known a handful of addicts (opiates, Xanax, alcohol) over the past few years, including one close friend who died from an accidental overdose. Each one of them had starting having seizures and claimed their doctors have no idea why. They've even had extensive follow up care and testing to find the cause of the seizures.

Does anyone have experience with this? I can't figure out if they're telling the truth. To me, the seizures are obviously drug related. Either from withdrawal, or from heavy use of oxy or alcohol. But then why continue with the testing if doctors know what caused the seizures?

The reason this bothers me is because addicts cling to their mystery "seizure disorder" diagnosis as a way to deflect from their addiction, use it as an excuse for their behavior, and even a reason to keep using - my friend had a seizure in rehab and claims they told her she had to leave rehab and get her seizures under control before coming back. I said wait, wasn't the seizure caused by withdrawal? And she said "the doctors don't know." My coworker admitted she was addicted but insisted her doctor wanted her to do more testing for the seizures before weaning her off the opioids.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you. My alcoholic coworker suddenly started having seizures and the doctors could not figure out why and never mentioned that it might be linked to the alcoholism. A quick google search shows lots of evidence for this connection.

[Anonymous]

Seizures can happen when addicts are withdrawing from alcohol or benzos - Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, or Valium typically. Both alcohol and benzos more or less hit the same neurotransmitters. From a brain's perspective, Xanax and the other benzos are basically alcohol in a pill.

Over time, an addict will develop a physiological dependency that can be very serious. When you remove alcohol and/or benzos from their system, the brain goes haywire. It's like the brakes are gone, and suddenly the accelerator is being pressed hard on their central nervous system. Seizures - as well as strokes, heart attacks, delirium tremens and an all around bad time - can often result as they go through the withdrawal process.

Severe alcohol withdrawal is typically over with within a week. Benzo withdrawal can take much longer. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It's a process that goes on and on and on.

Opioid withdrawal might make an addict feel like death, but medically, it's nothing serious. Physically, they'll be fine within a week or so. They don't really need a heavy duty medical intervention. The suck isn't life-threatening.

The alcohol and benzo addicts are the ones that often need to be in the hospital as they go through withdrawal. That can kill. It's no fun at all for the severe addicts.

The seizures your benzo and alcohol addicted friends complained about were almost certainly caused by withdrawal, which can happen within hours of their last use.

People in an active state of addiction tend to lie. People in recovery from addiction tend to be rigorously honest. So, judge accordingly with whatever they tell you.

[Anonymous]

Op. But will doctors tell an addict they don't know why they're having seizures? Or wouldn't a rehab center have a plan in place for people having seizures due to withdrawal?

Every once in a while my head spins with all of the lies and subterfuge and manipulation my friend heaped onto me, and I'm so sad for the affect on her own kids and husband. But still, it's strange that I have known several people who are/were addicts with this one thing in common which is insisting their seizures are such a mystery. And in some ways I wonder if doctors really are ignoring the obvious?

[Anonymous]

As PP noted, seizures aren't usually caused by withdrawal from opiates, so that doctor was correct to do further testing. Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can cause seizures, and patients in rehab would be transferred to a hospital for further observation/testing/medical care.

It seems as though you want to judge your friends instead of actually understand acute substance withdrawal. Were you in the room with them and their doctor? I'm guessing not. So you don't know what their doctors actually said. You mention 'lies and subterfuge and manipulation' - those behaviors can be consistent with active addiction. But I don't think you actually have a health related question or concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As PP noted, seizures aren't usually caused by withdrawal from opiates, so that doctor was correct to do further testing. Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can cause seizures, and patients in rehab would be transferred to a hospital for further observation/testing/medical care.

It seems as though you want to judge your friends instead of actually understand acute substance withdrawal. Were you in the room with them and their doctor? I'm guessing not. So you don't know what their doctors actually said. You mention 'lies and subterfuge and manipulation' - those behaviors can be consistent with active addiction. But I don't think you actually have a health related question or concern.

My friend was withdrawing from alcohol, benzos, and opiates.

I'm trying to understand how seizures affect rehab efforts. I'm trying to understand why (or if) doctors really do ignore the most likely cause of the seizures thereby delaying rehab. And I'm commenting on the phenomenon I see of addicts using their mystery seizures to deflect from the real problem.

[Anonymous]

Doctors are often not very good with treating substance use. Especially primary care and emergency room.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP noted, seizures aren't usually caused by withdrawal from opiates, so that doctor was correct to do further testing. Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can cause seizures, and patients in rehab would be transferred to a hospital for further observation/testing/medical care.

It seems as though you want to judge your friends instead of actually understand acute substance withdrawal. Were you in the room with them and their doctor? I'm guessing not. So you don't know what their doctors actually said. You mention 'lies and subterfuge and manipulation' - those behaviors can be consistent with active addiction. But I don't think you actually have a health related question or concern.

My friend was withdrawing from alcohol, benzos, and opiates.

I'm trying to understand how seizures affect rehab efforts. I'm trying to understand why (or if) doctors really do ignore the most likely cause of the seizures thereby delaying rehab. And I'm commenting on the phenomenon I see of addicts using their mystery seizures to deflect from the real problem.

I think you know the truth OP. Any actual substance abuse treatment clinic would know full well how to treat the symptoms of withdrawal including seizures, and barring a temporary medical emergency, would not recommend a that an addict cease efforts to treat their addiction due seizures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As PP noted, seizures aren't usually caused by withdrawal from opiates, so that doctor was correct to do further testing. Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can cause seizures, and patients in rehab would be transferred to a hospital for further observation/testing/medical care.

It seems as though you want to judge your friends instead of actually understand acute substance withdrawal. Were you in the room with them and their doctor? I'm guessing not. So you don't know what their doctors actually said. You mention 'lies and subterfuge and manipulation' - those behaviors can be consistent with active addiction. But I don't think you actually have a health related question or concern.

My friend was withdrawing from alcohol, benzos, and opiates.

I'm trying to understand how seizures affect rehab efforts. I'm trying to understand why (or if) doctors really do ignore the most likely cause of the seizures thereby delaying rehab. And I'm commenting on the phenomenon I see of addicts using their mystery seizures to deflect from the real problem.

So the opioid problem is separate. I mean it's a different medical problem. What kills opioid addicts first is that fentanyl is in everything and it's very easy to OD. Secondly, what kills them is that after they've detoxed, they often go back out and use again. However, now they have no tolerance at all, and then it's really easy to OD. But the withdrawal itself isn't a big problem. It's super uncomfortable, but nothing really serious happens to the human body as they go through it.

Alcohol and benzos are the bigger problem when it comes to withdrawal. And it is very common. Every emergency room in America is familiar with the alcoholics in particular. If you walk into any ER and say hi, I'm in alcoholic in withdrawal, and I experience seizures, you will immediately be treated regardless of your insurance situation. Most ERs will use a CIWA scale - it's a protocol to treat alcohol withdrawal. If it's severe, you will immediately have IVs running into both arms and you will be a high priority patient. Word of advice - don't show up drunk. Hospital staff hate that. Wait until symptoms of withdrawal are kicking in and they'll know what to do.

Substance abuse rehabs also typically have a detox ward. They treat it everyday so they are usually very competent. Occasionally, of course, there will be patients that belong in intensive care - and that's where they will be sent before admittance to the rest of the rehab program, which is usually a 30-90 day stay. Though unfortunately insurance sometimes kicks people out after a mere 7-14 days. Which is too bad.

Regular GPs, however, are often woefully ill-informed about addiction, the effects of the various drugs, and treatment protocols for withdrawal. Urgent Cares too. And both generally don't want to deal with alcohol withdrawal at all, because it can be very serious. And benzo withdrawal is even more complicated since it has a much longer timeline.

So, the hospital or detox at a rehab are usually the only options for addicts needing medical assistance to get through withdrawal. The seizures your friends are experiencing are no doubt related to withdrawal. But as long as they are honest with the nurses and doctors at any hospital or rehab, it's nothing unusual. It's treated every single day in every hospital in America.

But if they are lying about their substance abuse, then yes, the cause of seizures might be perplexing for doctors. But tell them there's a history of alcohol or benzos, then it's not a mystery at all. Frankly, it sounds like your friends don't want to clean up. In which case, nothing can be done.

[Anonymous]

They doctors don't "know." They certainly suspect, but can't rule out other causes. So they test. They have to; it's this little thing called "standard of care."

And you realize that not all addicts admit to their use, right? The only time any doctor caught on to my mother's drug and alcohol abuse was when hospitalized overnight for observation after she'd had chest pain -- she went into withdrawal pretty quickly. Unless you have a situation like that, well -- you don't know what you don't know. When asked about substance use she would respond with "One glass of red wine per night for the antioxidents." That was bs, lol. Multiply by 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seizures can happen when addicts are withdrawing from alcohol or benzos - Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, or Valium typically. Both alcohol and benzos more or less hit the same neurotransmitters. From a brain's perspective, Xanax and the other benzos are basically alcohol in a pill.

Over time, an addict will develop a physiological dependency that can be very serious. When you remove alcohol and/or benzos from their system, the brain goes haywire. It's like the brakes are gone, and suddenly the accelerator is being pressed hard on their central nervous system. Seizures - as well as strokes, heart attacks, delirium tremens and an all around bad time - can often result as they go through the withdrawal process.

Severe alcohol withdrawal is typically over with within a week. Benzo withdrawal can take much longer. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It's a process that goes on and on and on.

Opioid withdrawal might make an addict feel like death, but medically, it's nothing serious. Physically, they'll be fine within a week or so. They don't really need a heavy duty medical intervention. The suck isn't life-threatening.

The alcohol and benzo addicts are the ones that often need to be in the hospital as they go through withdrawal. That can kill. It's no fun at all for the severe addicts.

The seizures your benzo and alcohol addicted friends complained about were almost certainly caused by withdrawal, which can happen within hours of their last use.

People in an active state of addiction tend to lie. People in recovery from addiction tend to be rigorously honest. So, judge accordingly with whatever they tell you.

The bolded is irresponsibly inaccurate. Like anything else that makes you rapidly lose fluids (via vomiting, sweating, diarrhea), you can throw off your electrolyte balance and screw up your heart. https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/blog/yes-people-can-die-opiate-withdrawal

Recovering addicts aren't exactly psychologically equipped to handle all that alone, and most don't pre-stock pedialyte or the like for their detox journey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seizures can happen when addicts are withdrawing from alcohol or benzos - Xanax, Klonopin, Ativan, or Valium typically. Both alcohol and benzos more or less hit the same neurotransmitters. From a brain's perspective, Xanax and the other benzos are basically alcohol in a pill.

Over time, an addict will develop a physiological dependency that can be very serious. When you remove alcohol and/or benzos from their system, the brain goes haywire. It's like the brakes are gone, and suddenly the accelerator is being pressed hard on their central nervous system. Seizures - as well as strokes, heart attacks, delirium tremens and an all around bad time - can often result as they go through the withdrawal process.

Severe alcohol withdrawal is typically over with within a week. Benzo withdrawal can take much longer. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It's a process that goes on and on and on.

Opioid withdrawal might make an addict feel like death, but medically, it's nothing serious. Physically, they'll be fine within a week or so. They don't really need a heavy duty medical intervention. The suck isn't life-threatening.

The alcohol and benzo addicts are the ones that often need to be in the hospital as they go through withdrawal. That can kill. It's no fun at all for the severe addicts.

The seizures your benzo and alcohol addicted friends complained about were almost certainly caused by withdrawal, which can happen within hours of their last use.

People in an active state of addiction tend to lie. People in recovery from addiction tend to be rigorously honest. So, judge accordingly with whatever they tell you.

The bolded is irresponsibly inaccurate. Like anything else that makes you rapidly lose fluids (via vomiting, sweating, diarrhea), you can throw off your electrolyte balance and screw up your heart. https://ndarc.med.unsw.edu.au/blog/yes-people-can-die-opiate-withdrawal

Recovering addicts aren't exactly psychologically equipped to handle all that alone, and most don't pre-stock pedialyte or the like for their detox journey.

Ok. But needing some pedialyte isn't exactly the same as the massive amount of medical intervention a severe alcoholic requires. Vomiting is not the same as the DTs, strokes, grand mal seizures, and heart attacks. In the detox wards, the opioid addicts aren't typically the problem. The alcoholics and benzo addicts can be a week long nightmare. And that's if they get there before liver failure has set in. Not to mention pancreatitis and a host of other things. These people die without a medically-supervised detox. And sometimes they die anyway.

I don't mean to diminish opioid addiction at all. But I do mean to stress how dangerous alcohol and benzo withdrawal can be. Regardless of the substance, the brain is going to require a long time to heal. But for the acute withdrawal stage, alcohol and benzos typically present with far more severe symptoms. And that's what's likely causing the seizures here.

[Anonymous]

Agreeing with PP above. Alcohol/benzo withdrawal is dangerous, opiate withdrawal isn't. Many people without medical resources have done opiate withdrawal successfully at home. It is miserable, but you won't die if you take common sense measures like drink a lot of fluids.

[Anonymous]

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/alcohol-withdrawal

[Anonymous]

If a patient is having seizures, typically the hospital would run a urine tox screen. No one expects someone with substance use disorder to accurately describe their use. Benzos and opiates will still be in the urine. And if the person is going through alcohol withdrawal, they’ll look sweaty, anxious, high heart rate, and trying to get out of there, and they probably at least smelled like alcohol when they got there.