Options for opposing Connecticut Avenue changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

When it comes to going to work in 2020, the Census Bureau says 37 percent of people here drove, 31.5 percent take public transportation, 12.5 percent walked, 12.3 percent worked from home and 6.7 percent either took cabs, motorcycles, rode bikes or used some other form of transportation.

That understates how many people are actually driving here, because Census is only talking to Washingtonians, and many of the people driving live in Maryland or Virginia but work here.

Census data from 2000 here

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many active regular bicycle commuters are there in DC? How many people bike, rather than drive, for 1 mile or greater transportation?

Based on data from the census bureau, it was 4 percent of commuters as of 2015. Bicycle commuters doubled between 2010 and 2015 and so the number is likely now much higher. As bicycle lanes are also used by scooters, one-wheels, electric wheelchairs, and other personal mobility devices, bicycle commuters are a subset of the number of potential users. Those who drove or rode a car to work made up about 40 percent of DC commuters.

Please put numbers to your claims in order to compare like to like.

4% of 30,000 =1,200 for example.

The denominator is constant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many active regular bicycle commuters are there in DC? How many people bike, rather than drive, for 1 mile or greater transportation?

Based on data from the census bureau, it was 4 percent of commuters as of 2015. Bicycle commuters doubled between 2010 and 2015 and so the number is likely now much higher. As bicycle lanes are also used by scooters, one-wheels, electric wheelchairs, and other personal mobility devices, bicycle commuters are a subset of the number of potential users. Those who drove or rode a car to work made up about 40 percent of DC commuters.

Please put numbers to your claims in order to compare like to like.

4% of 30,000 =1,200 for example.

The denominator is constant.[/quote
Then what is the denominator?

30,000 comes from 2018 vehicle hard count data. The 4% number comes from a dated ACS survey and does not include the margin or error, the number respondents or the location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many active regular bicycle commuters are there in DC? How many people bike, rather than drive, for 1 mile or greater transportation?

Based on data from the census bureau, it was 4 percent of commuters as of 2015. Bicycle commuters doubled between 2010 and 2015 and so the number is likely now much higher. As bicycle lanes are also used by scooters, one-wheels, electric wheelchairs, and other personal mobility devices, bicycle commuters are a subset of the number of potential users. Those who drove or rode a car to work made up about 40 percent of DC commuters.

Please put numbers to your claims in order to compare like to like.

4% of 30,000 =1,200 for example.

The denominator is constant.[/quote
Then what is the denominator?

30,000 comes from 2018 vehicle hard count data. The 4% number comes from a dated ACS survey and does not include the margin or error, the number respondents or the location.

Commuters.

If you think a "hard count" is more reliable than the census bureau, then you either don't understand a few things about data collection or are not thinking things through. The margin of error is on the website for the census bureau.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many active regular bicycle commuters are there in DC? How many people bike, rather than drive, for 1 mile or greater transportation?

Based on data from the census bureau, it was 4 percent of commuters as of 2015. Bicycle commuters doubled between 2010 and 2015 and so the number is likely now much higher. As bicycle lanes are also used by scooters, one-wheels, electric wheelchairs, and other personal mobility devices, bicycle commuters are a subset of the number of potential users. Those who drove or rode a car to work made up about 40 percent of DC commuters.

Please put numbers to your claims in order to compare like to like.

4% of 30,000 =1,200 for example.

The denominator is constant.[/quote
Then what is the denominator?

30,000 comes from 2018 vehicle hard count data. The 4% number comes from a dated ACS survey and does not include the margin or error, the number respondents or the location.

Commuters.

If you think a "hard count" is more reliable than the census bureau, then you either don't understand a few things about data collection or are not thinking things through. The margin of error is on the website for the census bureau.

I did not say that. But since you mention it, yes a hard count is more reliable than a small sample broad based phone survey. FWIW I am one of the sampled respondents on the ACS survey and it is more of a survey of beliefs and aspirations than hard data. For instance, I do not know exactly how many hours I worked that week and yet I gave an answet. The limitation of the hard count is that it is a snapshot from a specific moment in time that may not be representative. All survey results must have the margin of error in order to know how stastically viable the survey makers believe the results are. If the margin on that survey is +/- 4 then that means the survey says anywhere from 0-8%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

It also is only talking about commute "to work", not the school commuters with all the cross city OOB commuters for public schools and all the private school commuters from DC, MD, and VA in cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you wondering about emissions from passenger vehicles in DC, here are some stats.

Bottom line: passenger vehicles account for 16 percent of DC's greenhouse gas emissions. The main source of greenhouse gas emissions are commercial and residential buildings. So for those of you wanting greater density, maybe you want to think of the environmental impact.

Overall, transportation accounts for about 21 percent of DC's greenhouse gas emissions, but passengers vehicles only represent 79 percent of that 21 percent. That equates to 16 percent of the overall emissions. Buses, trucks and transit account for the rest of the transportation emissions.


Obviously, reducing passenger car track plays an important role, but the argument for that is not the flex you think it is. Particularly when commercial and residential buildings are actually the biggest contributors to greenhouse gas emissions in DC.


https://doee.dc.gov/service/greenhouse-gas-inventories#:~:text=Emissions%20Sources%20in%20the%20District&text=In%20the%20District%2C%20emissions%20come,%25)%20and%20waste%20(7%25).

You don’t seem to understand that theses lanes will not result in fewer cars. It will only push cars onto other roads where they will increase pollution and decrease safety. Any reduction in cars will be because MD and NWDC drivers decide it’s no longer worth it to drive downtown, which raises serious economic concerns. The problem with young, childless elected officials making major decisions is that they don’t have the life experience to comprehend why most older professionals will reject the bike lanes. They haven’t received the mid-day call to pick up a sick child or have to leave work suddenly to meet a contractor or bring an aging parent to medical appointment. And yes, we get it that there are some hippie parents who are all about bike lanes, but they’re the small minority.

The results you are hypothesizing are not supported by facts, no matter how many times you try to assert them.

I am an older professional with children. These bike lanes will be a game changer for our household, in a good way. Please just stop with the doom and gloom. We will easily cut our driving by at least half.

You should read this. This is how these lanes play out in the real world, not in the bike industry paid studies. I wish you and you family good luck, you will need it.

https://timesofsandiego.com/opinion/2021/02/28/the-supposed-safe-feeling-of-protected-bike-lanes-is-misleading-even-deadly/

We will be vary happy to use our bikes to run errands, support our local businesses and get our kids to school safely. Thank you for the good wishes.

Not sure how you plan to bike home with your multiple bags of groceries, or how you plan to bike your multiple kids to their multiple schools with their backpack and sports equipment, followed of course biking them to their favorite sports practice elsewhere. Please enjoy!!

'

We already do this, so it shouldn't be of any concern to you. We just want to be able to do it to the places we go more directly and safely than we do now.

Nice try, but I doubt it.

DP. I lived for years in Ward 3 doing all of this. It's really not that hard. Much easier if you have an e-bike (which I don't have).

e-Bikes are now selling electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids (https://electrek.co/2022/01/26/electric-bicycles-are-now-outselling-electric-cars-and-plug-in-hybrids-combined-in-the-us/). Things are changing, like it or not.

The vast majority of people are NOT going to give up their cars and you obsessive bike nuts are and will continue to be a loud minority,like it or not.

No one said a vast majority needs to. But, if enough of a minority do, then it frees up lanes for people to drive in and spaces for people to park in. No one has ever suggested that hundreds of thousands of people are going to suddenly switch to bikes or ebikes.

That is correct. Nobody has claimed hundreda of thousands are suddenly going to take up commuter bicycling if two lanes of Connecticut Aveneue are removes. They've only claimed ten thousand will.

Ten thousand people seems more realistic if it was flat. Going uphill after a long day of work seems challenging for a lot of people. I expect current cyclists will not give grace to people struggling uphill, though I could be wrong. The other bike lanes don't have room for passing.

Even if it was flat, which it is not, that would be wildly exaggerated. Are there even 10,000 bicycle commuters in the entire city right now? What are the actual numbers? Regardless the idea that 25% of current Connecticut Avenue commuters will instanteously switch to bikes is not even close to being realistic.

There are hundreds of thousands of bike riders. This isn't about commuting, particularly since more people are working from home. Why are you fixated on the commuting number when we should be looking at anticipated usage, which to date, DDOT hasn't estimated. Becuase the number would be too high.

The focus is on commuters because this is who is hurt by reducing the main commuting artery to down town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

Yes. So? Should DC make decisions based on their interests or those who actually live, work, and pay taxes in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

It also is only talking about commute "to work", not the school commuters with all the cross city OOB commuters for public schools and all the private school commuters from DC, MD, and VA in cars.

DC should be making policy to suit the private school commuters from MD or VA or those DC residents with enough disposable income and time to drive their kids from one side of the city to another but who do not actually drive to work? These are exactly the kind of people who need to be discouraged from driving into or around the city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

Yes. So? Should DC make decisions based on their interests or those who actually live, work, and pay taxes in DC?

The interests of those that actually live, work and pay taxes in DC is directly tied to the traffic. I don't care where they live or are domiciled. I only care about how many vehicles are on the road at any one time. Increased congestion primarily hurts those that live in the area where the congestion occurs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

Yes. So? Should DC make decisions based on their interests or those who actually live, work, and pay taxes in DC?

The interests of those that actually live, work and pay taxes in DC is directly tied to the traffic. I don't care where they live or are domiciled. I only care about how many vehicles are on the road at any one time. Increased congestion primarily hurts those that live in the area where the congestion occurs.

Yes. And for this reason, they should be discouraged from driving into the city and encouraged to explore alternative means of transportation, such as transit. This is achieved by using traffic calming measures such as bike lanes that reduce throughput into the city. Plenty of large cities such as New York, London, and Tokyo have done just fine while doing similar - and even more extreme - things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's so few cyclists that both the city and the Census Bureau throw them into a miscellaneous category.

The only thing this statement tells us is that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Census Bureau disaggregates "Means of Transportation to Work" into five broad categories, of which "Bicycle" is one. The 2021 data, with margins of error, for Washington, DC is here: https://data.census.gov/cedsci/table?q=Washington%20city,%20District%20of%20Columbia&t=Commuting&tid=ACSST1Y2021.S0801

Before you get too excited about the 2.1% figure, not that 48.3% of respondents indicated that they work from home. As of 2019, 4.0% of DC commuters were cycling to work and 38.5% were driving (or being driven).

Isn't that only showing the commuters who live in DC and none of the MD and VA people who commute to DC?

Yes. So? Should DC make decisions based on their interests or those who actually live, work, and pay taxes in DC?

The interests of those that actually live, work and pay taxes in DC is directly tied to the traffic. I don't care where they live or are domiciled. I only care about how many vehicles are on the road at any one time. Increased congestion primarily hurts those that live in the area where the congestion occurs.

So do you not care where they live or do you care about those who live in the area? ???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those of you wondering about emissions from passenger vehicles in DC, here are some stats.

Bottom line: passenger vehicles account for 16 percent of DC's greenhouse gas emissions. The main source of greenhouse gas emissions are commercial and residential buildings. So for those of you wanting greater density, maybe you want to think of the environmental impact.

Overall, transportation accounts for about 21 percent of DC's greenhouse gas emissions, but passengers vehicles only represent 79 percent of that 21 percent. That equates to 16 percent of the overall emissions. Buses, trucks and transit account for the rest of the transportation emissions.


Obviously, reducing passenger car track plays an important role, but the argument for that is not the flex you think it is. Particularly when commercial and residential buildings are actually the biggest contributors to greenhouse gas emissions in DC.


https://doee.dc.gov/service/greenhouse-gas-inventories#:~:text=Emissions%20Sources%20in%20the%20District&text=In%20the%20District%2C%20emissions%20come,%25)%20and%20waste%20(7%25).

You don’t seem to understand that theses lanes will not result in fewer cars. It will only push cars onto other roads where they will increase pollution and decrease safety. Any reduction in cars will be because MD and NWDC drivers decide it’s no longer worth it to drive downtown, which raises serious economic concerns. The problem with young, childless elected officials making major decisions is that they don’t have the life experience to comprehend why most older professionals will reject the bike lanes. They haven’t received the mid-day call to pick up a sick child or have to leave work suddenly to meet a contractor or bring an aging parent to medical appointment. And yes, we get it that there are some hippie parents who are all about bike lanes, but they’re the small minority.

The results you are hypothesizing are not supported by facts, no matter how many times you try to assert them.

I am an older professional with children. These bike lanes will be a game changer for our household, in a good way. Please just stop with the doom and gloom. We will easily cut our driving by at least half.

You should read this. This is how these lanes play out in the real world, not in the bike industry paid studies. I wish you and you family good luck, you will need it.

https://timesofsandiego.com/opinion/2021/02/28/the-supposed-safe-feeling-of-protected-bike-lanes-is-misleading-even-deadly/

We will be vary happy to use our bikes to run errands, support our local businesses and get our kids to school safely. Thank you for the good wishes.

Not sure how you plan to bike home with your multiple bags of groceries, or how you plan to bike your multiple kids to their multiple schools with their backpack and sports equipment, followed of course biking them to their favorite sports practice elsewhere. Please enjoy!!

'

We already do this, so it shouldn't be of any concern to you. We just want to be able to do it to the places we go more directly and safely than we do now.

Nice try, but I doubt it.

DP. I lived for years in Ward 3 doing all of this. It's really not that hard. Much easier if you have an e-bike (which I don't have).

e-Bikes are now selling electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids (https://electrek.co/2022/01/26/electric-bicycles-are-now-outselling-electric-cars-and-plug-in-hybrids-combined-in-the-us/). Things are changing, like it or not.

The vast majority of people are NOT going to give up their cars and you obsessive bike nuts are and will continue to be a loud minority,like it or not.

No one said a vast majority needs to. But, if enough of a minority do, then it frees up lanes for people to drive in and spaces for people to park in. No one has ever suggested that hundreds of thousands of people are going to suddenly switch to bikes or ebikes.

That is correct. Nobody has claimed hundreda of thousands are suddenly going to take up commuter bicycling if two lanes of Connecticut Aveneue are removes. They've only claimed ten thousand will.

Ten thousand people seems more realistic if it was flat. Going uphill after a long day of work seems challenging for a lot of people. I expect current cyclists will not give grace to people struggling uphill, though I could be wrong. The other bike lanes don't have room for passing.

Even if it was flat, which it is not, that would be wildly exaggerated. Are there even 10,000 bicycle commuters in the entire city right now? What are the actual numbers? Regardless the idea that 25% of current Connecticut Avenue commuters will instanteously switch to bikes is not even close to being realistic.

There are hundreds of thousands of bike riders. This isn't about commuting, particularly since more people are working from home. Why are you fixated on the commuting number when we should be looking at anticipated usage, which to date, DDOT hasn't estimated. Becuase the number would be too high.

You are including every single child with that figure. You are also including people who learned to bike but for various reasons don't. It is these outright falsehoods and exaggerations that frustrate people. The use of a Connecticut Avenue bike lane will be minimal. Access for pedestrians and bicyclists from the neighborhoods on the side streets is good and widely used. Children will not be using Connecticut Avenue to bike because congestion is too high.

THAT IS WHY WE NEED A BIKE LANE

Thanks for making the argument in favor of it.