Gaza War, Part 3

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Criticism of Israel is 100% valid. The issue is it too often comes from antisemites who would be anywhere from thrilled to indifferent if Jews were the ones dying. We know this because that is how these people reacted on October 7th. So I always look at this thread with a heavy and suspicious heart seeing some of the things being posted. Haaretz.com is a MUCH better place to look at Israel with a very critical eye but away from this type of element. Just a FYI for someone looking to actually get informed beyond repetitive buzzwords.

I see more anti-antisemitism than antisemitism. Israel has historically been given much gratuitous support and a free pass to commit horrible abuses because people shy away from appearing antisemitic. We live in a much more inclusive, non-hierarchical society than we used to, and we are less inclined to notice differences between ethnic groups. It is racist to give or demand special treatment, good or bad, to any particular group, and people today are looking at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a much more objective lens than they used to. Knee-jerk support for Zionism -- in a form that privileges Jews and dismisses the Palestinian experience -- is declining. Perhaps what feels like "antisemitism" is simply the slow demise of racial privilege. We're all one, whatever our ethnicity. Most people today want to see ALL people flourish and NOBODY excluded. Palestinians have suffered terrible injustices for 100 years. To justify this treatment, one has to be racist. Please, let's not confuse being anti-racist with being antisemitic. It's contradictory to claim that failing to privilege one group over another is bigoted (or, in this case, antisemitic).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Good point. Additionally, I suspect Trump is going to be much more brutal toward Palestinians than Biden. When he was President, he basically gave Netanyahu, the "butcher of Gaza," everything he wanted. Trump is fundamentally racist, and he sees Palestinians as "less white" than Israelis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m really starting to think the WCK attack is a turning point.

My hopeful, optimistic, probably wrong take is that this gives an opportunity for everyone to hit pause. Including, maybe especially, Israel. This gives them the opportunity to say: we need to end this war, Hamas, come to the table and none of us will leave until we have a deal. But that probably won't happen.

Hamas set out to destroy Israel and Netanyahu is helping them do it at this point.

What happened to the Ramadan cease fire?

Maybe you should ask Bibi/Israelis to come to the table first because they have been an equal stumbling block in the quest for peace and a two-state solution. Plus, at this point Israel is now the aggressor and oppressor committing genocide.

Yes, after Hamas broke initial ceasefires, Israel has come to the table but it's hard to see either side as having put forth the best faith effort to come to agreement.

Hamas could end this today. Please don't ever forget that. They could have stopped this from happening in the first place, and they could end it today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Criticism of Israel is 100% valid. The issue is it too often comes from antisemites who would be anywhere from thrilled to indifferent if Jews were the ones dying. We know this because that is how these people reacted on October 7th. So I always look at this thread with a heavy and suspicious heart seeing some of the things being posted. Haaretz.com is a MUCH better place to look at Israel with a very critical eye but away from this type of element. Just a FYI for someone looking to actually get informed beyond repetitive buzzwords.

I see more anti-antisemitism than antisemitism. Israel has historically been given much gratuitous support and a free pass to commit horrible abuses because people shy away from appearing antisemitic. We live in a much more inclusive, non-hierarchical society than we used to, and we are less inclined to notice differences between ethnic groups. It is racist to give or demand special treatment, good or bad, to any particular group, and people today are looking at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a much more objective lens than they used to. Knee-jerk support for Zionism -- in a form that privileges Jews and dismisses the Palestinian experience -- is declining. Perhaps what feels like "antisemitism" is simply the slow demise of racial privilege. We're all one, whatever our ethnicity. Most people today want to see ALL people flourish and NOBODY excluded. Palestinians have suffered terrible injustices for 100 years. To justify this treatment, one has to be racist. Please, let's not confuse being anti-racist with being antisemitic. It's contradictory to claim that failing to privilege one group over another is bigoted (or, in this case, antisemitic).

Exactly, when you're used to privilege, being treated like any other group feels like antisemitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m really starting to think the WCK attack is a turning point.

My hopeful, optimistic, probably wrong take is that this gives an opportunity for everyone to hit pause. Including, maybe especially, Israel. This gives them the opportunity to say: we need to end this war, Hamas, come to the table and none of us will leave until we have a deal. But that probably won't happen.

Hamas set out to destroy Israel and Netanyahu is helping them do it at this point.

What happened to the Ramadan cease fire?

Maybe you should ask Bibi/Israelis to come to the table first because they have been an equal stumbling block in the quest for peace and a two-state solution. Plus, at this point Israel is now the aggressor and oppressor committing genocide.

Yes, after Hamas broke initial ceasefires, Israel has come to the table but it's hard to see either side as having put forth the best faith effort to come to agreement.

Hamas could end this today. Please don't ever forget that. They could have stopped this from happening in the first place, and they could end it today.

If Hamas went away tomorrow, Israel would like the Palestinians return to Gaza and rebuild? They would stop the settlers in the West Bank? They would stop attacking Syria and Lebanon?

The only thing that would change is who Israel blames for their own brutality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why doesn’t Biden want or care about those voters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Good point. Additionally, I suspect Trump is going to be much more brutal toward Palestinians than Biden. When he was President, he basically gave Netanyahu, the "butcher of Gaza," everything he wanted. Trump is fundamentally racist, and he sees Palestinians as "less white" than Israelis.

Well, considering Biden's unwavering supply of weapons of mass destruction to Israel, Bibi will have no use for Trump as Gaza will be a wasteland ready for settler terrorists to set up shop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Biden has been in politics for decades and clearly doesn’t feel he needs the votes of the people who are against the war. Why are we supposed to second guess him? It he wants to gamble his job and the future of U.S democracy on supporting the murder of aid workers, that’s on him, not the voters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m really starting to think the WCK attack is a turning point.

My hopeful, optimistic, probably wrong take is that this gives an opportunity for everyone to hit pause. Including, maybe especially, Israel. This gives them the opportunity to say: we need to end this war, Hamas, come to the table and none of us will leave until we have a deal. But that probably won't happen.

Hamas set out to destroy Israel and Netanyahu is helping them do it at this point.

What happened to the Ramadan cease fire?

Maybe you should ask Bibi/Israelis to come to the table first because they have been an equal stumbling block in the quest for peace and a two-state solution. Plus, at this point Israel is now the aggressor and oppressor committing genocide.

Yes, after Hamas broke initial ceasefires, Israel has come to the table but it's hard to see either side as having put forth the best faith effort to come to agreement.

Hamas could end this today. Please don't ever forget that. They could have stopped this from happening in the first place, and they could end it today.

Newsflash...days before the Hamas massacre Israel, in the form of an IDF tank, had an incursion in Gaza. There was no cease fire, just a lull in fighting but because Israelis weren't getting killed en masse you and your ilk were OK with "peace" while the IDF was killing Palestinians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Biden has been in politics for decades and clearly doesn’t feel he needs the votes of the people who are against the war. Why are we supposed to second guess him? It he wants to gamble his job and the future of U.S democracy on supporting the murder of aid workers, that’s on him, not the voters.

I’m a lifelong Democrat and am more and more, as Israel’s abuses get worse and we continue to do absolutely nothing, coming around to this perspective. I want the party to understand that it fundamentally needs to change its platform with respect to Israel, and the only way to do that is to withhold my vote. The only thing stopping me at this point is that I am and have always been a one-issue voter on abortion rights. But I vote in NY anyway so I am really strongly considering sitting this one out.

I’ve been watching Israel’s “war” since October 7 with complete disgust and horror, but wasn’t going to withhold my vote over it because there are other important things that Biden is doing okay on, and Trump would definitely be worse. But this attack on aid workers (and us doing nothing about it) is kind of the last straw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Man, the fallout from World Kitchen is bad. Pro-Israel folks are now highly critical of Netanyahu. The American people are turning away from Israel. They’re not supporting Hamas but they’re not supporting Israel.

If you'd have listened to us for one second, you'd have known we were highly critical of Netanyahu all along.

This doesn't make us turn against Israel. When you weren't shouting at us and calling us horrible names, we were trying to explain our point of view. But none of you listen.

You were “highly critical”, but you did nothing.

You have been the bystanders to this all along— the exact bystanders who have been condemned in every other horror of this and the last century.

what the f do you wnt us to do? march with the ceasefire now people who target jewish-owned businesses and are so polarizing that they're actually turning people away from their cause?

guess what - we're jewish, not israeli. and even israelis, protesting by the thousands, haven't been able to get netanyahu to change/

i guess we could target our space lasers right at bibi's house - you're right, we should have thought of that earlier.

Well, if Israelis, in a democracy, can't get rid of Bibi, how do you expect Gazans to get rid of Hamas?

THEY CAN WHEN THERE IS AN ELECTION

There are thousands and thousands of Israels out in the street protesting Netanyahu and protesting this war, and protesting to try to get the government to do more to get the hostages back.

Why do Israelis keep electing him?

why are americans ok with withholding their vote for biden over the war in Gaza, which they know will hand the election to Trump, who incited violence to overthrow the election he lost and is a known threat to democracy and women?

Why are Biden and the DNC elites willing to elect Trump rather than ditch supporting Bibi, Israel and the ongoing genocide in Gaza?

No, go back and answer the question. That will answer this question.

Apparently Biden and Democrats believe supporting Israel is more important than maintaining America's democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m really starting to think the WCK attack is a turning point.

My hopeful, optimistic, probably wrong take is that this gives an opportunity for everyone to hit pause. Including, maybe especially, Israel. This gives them the opportunity to say: we need to end this war, Hamas, come to the table and none of us will leave until we have a deal. But that probably won't happen.

Hamas set out to destroy Israel and Netanyahu is helping them do it at this point.

What happened to the Ramadan cease fire?

Maybe you should ask Bibi/Israelis to come to the table first because they have been an equal stumbling block in the quest for peace and a two-state solution. Plus, at this point Israel is now the aggressor and oppressor committing genocide.

Yes, after Hamas broke initial ceasefires, Israel has come to the table but it's hard to see either side as having put forth the best faith effort to come to agreement.

Hamas could end this today. Please don't ever forget that. They could have stopped this from happening in the first place, and they could end it today.

Israel could have accepted the ceasefire when the UN Security Council voted at the end of March. Please don't forget that. If Israel had accepted that, then the WCK workers might be alive today.