Pro illegal alien supporters please explain this attitude...

[Anonymous]

People get arrested, and their fingerprints show up in the system. Why do you oppose their deportation?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_immigration_local_enforcement

[jsteele]

I think the explanation is right there in the article:

"ICE has pulled a bait and switch, with local law enforcement spending more time and resources facilitating the deportations of bus boys and gardeners than murderers and rapists and at considerable cost to local community policing strategies, making us all less safe," said Peter Markowitz, director of the Immigration Justice Clinic at Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law in New York.

Immigration opponents seem to believe that resources are unlimited. We can just throw more resources at illegal immigration and nothing else suffers. But, in fact, while the authorities were busy deporting 12,293 non-criminals, actual criminals were not being pursued due to lack of resources.

[Anonymous]

NP here, but following on OP's question - it's true that resources are limited. But illegal immigrants who are NOT criminals are nevertheless a drain on our society. They don't pay taxes, but they reap many public benefits of living here. Also, I'm not sure I believe that ICE is focusing on busboys ahead of rapists, but that sure makes a good soundbite for the law professor. If ICE is doing that, I agree that that is a bad strategy. But it still doesn't explain why some people oppose the deportation of individuals that we know are hear illegally, even if they aren't breaking other laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here, but following on OP's question - it's true that resources are limited. But illegal immigrants who are NOT criminals are nevertheless a drain on our society. They don't pay taxes, but they reap many public benefits of living here. Also, I'm not sure I believe that ICE is focusing on busboys ahead of rapists, but that sure makes a good soundbite for the law professor. If ICE is doing that, I agree that that is a bad strategy. But it still doesn't explain why some people oppose the deportation of individuals that we know are hear illegally, even if they aren't breaking other laws.

Busboys vs rapists: Far more of the former, so they automatically take more time. Opposing deportation: Some came here legally and may have stayed when visas expired because of (a) relationships, (b) jobs, or (c) dangers back home; it's not a blanket opposition to deportation, but a belief that it would be inhumane, and perhaps even economically harmful to the US to deport everyone.

[Anonymous]

THe fact that ICE got these fingerprints from jails shows that these people are criminals. Period.

[Anonymous]

Thing is if you have limited resources, you go after the more serious crimes. Being an illegal alien and otherwise working is akin to jaywalking or violating one of those "don't eat pie in front of a horse" laws from 1903.

Other issues -- loitering, packing in 20 to a house, etc., -- make an illegal's presence more serious. But is it as serious as say assault, rape, or even burglary? Probably not.

Now there is a theory (broken windows policing?) that says if policemen clamp down on minor crimes like jaywalking or turnstile jumping, then more serious crime will go down. OTOH, with crime down well over 50% from 20-30 years ago, and the highest percentage of population involved in the prison system in the world (*), how much more utility will we get out of additional law enforcement resources?

(*) Either our courts are throwing people into jail that probably shouldn't be there, or America has a too-high percentage of screwups.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:THe fact that ICE got these fingerprints from jails shows that these people are criminals. Period.

Well, if everyone who is arrested is an obvious criminal, we can simply get rid of the court system. With our mistake-free police forces, we can save the expense of trials, judges, and even the $6 dollar a day or whatever it is juries.

Maybe that will free up enough money to deport more gardeners?

[Anonymous]

Remember, money spent on programs you think are important doesn't really count, like cookie crumbs.

[Anonymous]

"Being an illegal alien and otherwise working is akin to jaywalking or violating one of those "don't eat pie in front of a horse" laws from 1903.
"

wow. There's the fundamental difference, I guess. There are a LOT of Americans that vehemently disagree that being an illegal alien is equivalent to jay walking in terms of impact to the community. I would also be surprised if the facts backed that up when you add up all the social services targeted towards their families (which many are able to utilize given children being born here once their parents get or stay here illegally).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here, but following on OP's question - it's true that resources are limited. But illegal immigrants who are NOT criminals are nevertheless a drain on our society. They don't pay taxes, but they reap many public benefits of living here. Also, I'm not sure I believe that ICE is focusing on busboys ahead of rapists, but that sure makes a good soundbite for the law professor. If ICE is doing that, I agree that that is a bad strategy. But it still doesn't explain why some people oppose the deportation of individuals that we know are hear illegally, even if they aren't breaking other laws.

What do you mean they don't pay taxes? You better believe that bus boy working with the illegal/stolen/bought social security number pays taxes...and then doesn't get a tax refund at the end of the year. So not only is he NOT a drain on our society (he works), but he pays his taxes, and takes no refund.

What in the hell are you talking about?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THe fact that ICE got these fingerprints from jails shows that these people are criminals. Period.

Well, if everyone who is arrested is an obvious criminal, we can simply get rid of the court system. With our mistake-free police forces, we can save the expense of trials, judges, and even the $6 dollar a day or whatever it is juries.

Maybe that will free up enough money to deport more gardeners?

Jeff, I agree with you on just about everything, ...EXCEPT THIS!!
You also mentioned in a previous thread that the employers of illegal immigrants should be prosecuted!!WTH
I don't get your logic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THe fact that ICE got these fingerprints from jails shows that these people are criminals. Period.

Well, if everyone who is arrested is an obvious criminal, we can simply get rid of the court system. With our mistake-free police forces, we can save the expense of trials, judges, and even the $6 dollar a day or whatever it is juries.

Maybe that will free up enough money to deport more gardeners?

Jeff, I agree with you on just about everything, ...EXCEPT THIS!!
You also mentioned in a previous thread that the employers of illegal immigrants should be prosecuted!!WTH
I don't get your logic.

I'm sorry, but I've never said that employers of illegal immigrants should be prosecuted.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THe fact that ICE got these fingerprints from jails shows that these people are criminals. Period.

Well, if everyone who is arrested is an obvious criminal, we can simply get rid of the court system. With our mistake-free police forces, we can save the expense of trials, judges, and even the $6 dollar a day or whatever it is juries.

Maybe that will free up enough money to deport more gardeners?

Jeff, I agree with you on just about everything, ...EXCEPT THIS!!
You also mentioned in a previous thread that the employers of illegal immigrants should be prosecuted!!WTH
I don't get your logic.

I'm sorry, but I've never said that employers of illegal immigrants should be prosecuted.

OK, at least you are consistent.
But I still disagree with you WRT illegal immigration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here, but following on OP's question - it's true that resources are limited. But illegal immigrants who are NOT criminals are nevertheless a drain on our society. They don't pay taxes, but they reap many public benefits of living here. Also, I'm not sure I believe that ICE is focusing on busboys ahead of rapists, but that sure makes a good soundbite for the law professor. If ICE is doing that, I agree that that is a bad strategy. But it still doesn't explain why some people oppose the deportation of individuals that we know are hear illegally, even if they aren't breaking other laws.

Yes they do pay taxes. What, do you think they tell their bosses, don't take my taxes out of my check because I'm here illegally and I'll never file for a refund or use social security? Do you think they tell the clerk at the supermarket that they're not paying sales taxes today because they're illegal? Do you think they tell their landlord that they're not going to pay the portion of their rent that goes to real estate taxes for their apartment because they're illegal?

[Anonymous]

From my understanding of the program, it seems like a very good use of limited resources. Under Secure Communities, all arrestee fingerprints that are sent to the FBI are automatically routed to ICE for a check. If there is a hit, ICE uses a rating scale to determine whether the person should be detained for possible deportation. Because of ICE's limited resources, they focus on violent and/or repeat offenders. Some police agencies have even specifically sought to have minor crimes excluded from submission to help fight against the "chilling" affect the program may have on immigrant communities.

In the interests of full-disclosure, I am opposed to illegal immigration. I believe our country exploits many of the illegals that are here, and it is frustrating to watch friends and family abide by the rules while others disregard them. I'm a "follow the rules, follow the law" type. (And I acknowledge that my privileged life allows me to say that quite easily).

Many proposals to deal with the immigration issue are tainted (in my opinion) by racism and punish only the illegal aliens. But I guess I'm not seeing the harm here unless the argument is to deport no one.

Jeff, I know you mentioned police making mistakes in arrests, but since all fingerprints are sent to ICE, not just "select" fingerprints based on police discretion, and since ICE focuses on violent, repeat offenders, I see it as a good.

I think the propaganda about all/most illegals being criminals is destructive, wrong, and (in my opinion) racist, but if this program actually identifies violent repeat offenders here illegally, I completely support using what resources we have to deport them.