FA shouldn't go to people with 1 million dollar houses

[Anonymous]

Why don't you all focus on the GOOD aspects of FA instead of worrying about the BAD! it's intended purpose still exist you are helping kids who have families that do not have the financial means to attend! Focus more on helping those in real need and less on enabling those who are not! You will feel much better I assure you!

[Anonymous]

12:00 I think the idea is there would be more FA for those who needed it if folks didn't take advantage of the system. Why are people squelching this discussion? The intentions of folks like me who think schools should examine their FA policies is to bring about corrective measures.

[Anonymous]

I am wondering, there seems to be so much description of what a person on FA lifestyle should NOT look like, What should a person on FA lifestyle look like? I think it would clear up a thing or two for me! What is the ideal situation for a person to get FA in your opinion, and not get scrutinized by all of you? I really would like to know!

[Anonymous]

re having debt that offsets assets. No doubt they did -- does it matter how incurred the debt was incurred or is it just considered a fact that establishes need?

I know lots of people for whom debt is, essentially, credit card debt (partially transformed into a home equity loan) that reflects continual decisions to consume more than they can afford. So if debt is the Mercedes, the summer camps, the designer clothes, the big house in the chi-chi zipcode is/should that be treated differently than college loans or medical expenses or borrowing during a period of unemployment?

Then what do you do with cases where instead of paying down debt as soon as possible, people stretch it out as long as possible so it doesn't cut into their lifestyle/consumption?

I think it's easier to treat debt as a fact (and that's probably what's done), but that can lead to the kinds of scenarios OP is describing. I'd probably be more inclined to focus on income (and maybe earning history) in making these decisions -- i.e. if you earn that and you can't afford private school without financial assistance, then it clearly wasn't much a priority for you, and so it'd take a damn good reason to explain why others should fund your kids' educational expenses.

[Anonymous]

12:00, I worry for the same reason I worry about any inefficiency. Why worry about who gets welfare? Because there is an envelope of resources available for welfare, and you want to ensure that it goes to the most needy, if possible. Why worry about financial aid going to a rich family? Because it means someone else is getting less, someone else who truly needs it.

There was a thread titled, "Did anyone get FA this year?" It is so sad how many families have been locked out of the system. I would be interested in going back to those posters and asking them the price of their house.

As for those who think you can't know everything by the house value, that is true. But I would argue, you actually have in front of you the largest wealth most people will ever acquire. It is not like complaining about some family taking a vacation. This is the biggest expenditure most families will make, so it certainly is an important indicator. To act as if you know nothing from a house value is naive.

I came from a family with a single mom earning an elementary school teacher's salary. My sisters and I all went to Ivy League schools because of the availability of generous financial aid, aid which has steadily gone down year after year. I want nothing more than to see financial aid be well targeted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am wondering, there seems to be so much description of what a person on FA lifestyle should NOT look like, What should a person on FA lifestyle look like? I think it would clear up a thing or two for me! What is the ideal situation for a person to get FA in your opinion, and not get scrutinized by all of you? I really would like to know!

I thought that was pretty clear -- the argument is that something's wrong if people getting FA have more luxury goods than people who struggle to pay full tuition.

[Anonymous]

I think it's fairly rare for financial aid to go to really poor people, because they would need 100% assistance and many times, even with the assistance, the family cannot truly afford to go. FA is not supposed to make it easy to finance your child's education, it only helps bridge the gap. Now, there may be a section of families that receive FA and may receive very little, and I guess these are the people that all of these posters seem to have their panties in a bunch about. There are so many things that people here may not be considering. For example, maybe that person who lives in a million dollar house has three to four kids, maybe that house is only a life estate or owned by grandparents. Should the grandparents wealth also be taken into consideration? I would hope that most people here would think not. It was bad enough that at 25, My parent's wealth was used in my financial aid decision for grad school, when my parents were not contributing.

All of the parents here seem to have a huge sense of entitlement. Your tuition dollars do not cover the cost of your child's education. Any amount you actually give and let's face it here, all these people who are complaining and truly sacrificing are not donating much more than the required tuition. The school appreciates your $500, $1000, $5000 or maybe even $10,000 donations, but really, it's just going towards covering your own child's education costs. In any case, the money belongs to the school and a bulk of that money is coming from money already given to the school before you even got there., and the school can do what it wants with its money. Before you stop giving to your school however, you may want to get your facts checked about exactly how much of your dollars actually help one of these so-called undeserving families.

All of this anger and resentment about how money is spent and the sacrifices you are making to spend 30,000 a year to send your child to private school is a bunch of garbage. You made that choice. You choose the ULTIMATE LUXURY expense. Everyone here hates on Mercedes, but I could buy two Mercedes every year for the cost of sending two kids to private school. You knew what you were signing up for when you decided to enroll your child, so don't be angry at anyone but yourself if you feel like you are missing out on anything in life because YOU chose to send your child to private school. And to thsoe people who live in an unacceptable public school area, you can always move If FA was such a big issue, maybe you should have put that into you application when you applied.

[Anonymous]

The emperor is wearing a $1 million house in Georgetown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:All of the parents here seem to have a huge sense of entitlement. Your tuition dollars do not cover the cost of your child's education. Any amount you actually give and let's face it here, all these people who are complaining and truly sacrificing are not donating much more than the required tuition. The school appreciates your $500, $1000, $5000 or maybe even $10,000 donations, but really, it's just going towards covering your own child's education costs. In any case, the money belongs to the school and a bulk of that money is coming from money already given to the school before you even got there., and the school can do what it wants with its money. Before you stop giving to your school however, you may want to get your facts checked about exactly how much of your dollars actually help one of these so-called undeserving families.

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with you. When we received our reenrollment contract, it specifically stated that X% of tuition was being allocated to financial aid. The phrases that schools use to say that there is a gap between tuition and the cost to educate "each" child is just that. It's not the cost to educate "my" child. It's the cost the educate "every" child enrolled in the school. "Every" child is not paying full freight and thereby creates a gap. For those paying full freight, some of the tuition dollars are being used to fund financial aid. Between the X% of tuition allocated to financial aid, annual giving (some of which is allocated to financial aid), the scholarship auction, and X% draw down on the endowment -- that is where the money for financial aid is coming from. The money belongs to the school but the money is coming from parents past and present.

[Anonymous]

12:32 I knew what I was signing up for, absolutely, but I didn't know that people abused the FA process and I didn't know that so many people, including apparently you, seem just fine with that. For the record, my child would probably get $6,000 - $8,000 in aid if we applied. You're telling me that's peanuts? I know tuition doesn't cover the full cost (duh). That's besides the point. This is $6,000 - $8,000 less the school has to raise each year. That's basic math. If a few more families did that, we'd be able to give a full scholarship. And you think that's not problematic? I mean, people with second homes on FA? Yes! And children's trust funds don't get counted. Amazing! The system is WACKED.

I clicked around for information on FA and Bullis' (my child does not attend, we know several children who do) covers many of the very things we've discussed here. So obviously the FA folks are thinking this through.

Who qualifies for financial aid at Bullis?
All financial aid at Bullis is need based. Aid amounts are based exclusively on demonstrated financial need. We try to accommodate as many families as possible within the financial aid budget the Board approves each year.
Bullis expects that a family will have researched all of its own resources before coming to the school for financial aid. Since the school wants to give financial aid to the families that need it the most, we have to be able to assess the financial strength of each family applying for aid. To do this, many factors need to be considered. Some of these include: (1) income, both taxable and nontaxable; (2) assets (home equity, other real estate, savings, stocks, etc.); (3) number of dependents; (4) age of parent(s); and (5) number of children attending tuition-charging schools. We also consider a number of variables when making tuition aid awards: consumer debt, earning potential for spouse not employed outside the home, automobiles (fair market and/or lease value), recreational vehicles, second homes, vacation expenses and student travel/enrichment activities.

[Anonymous]

That is not true. The only school in which tuition covers part of FA that i know of is suppsoedly GDS. Otherwise tuition covers the cost of your kid's education, and not even that as there is a gap that is made up from annual funds.

[Anonymous]

13:25 What's not true? I'm not saving my child's school money by not applying for FA? What strange accounting method is this?

[Anonymous]

There are forms to fill out where the children's assets are disclosed, including any trust funds. it would be dishonest to exclude any assets from the FA forms. They ask about all real estate owned or rented, all vehicles, the price of clubs and vacations, all assets and debts. And the debts are separated out from mortgage, equity loans, car payments, consumer debts (ie credit card) and other debts (ie student loans from the parent). All of these inputs also require further clarification. So the school sees the numbers as well as the explanantions (hypothetically such as $25,000 is in credit card debt, $10,000 alimony owed, $40,000 med school loans, whatnot).

If someone is gaming the system and not disclosing their assets, this is indeed fraud. You have to sign something, and also submit your tax forms as proof (which means they cheat on their taxes too). If someone has disclosed their financial data (ie high income, expensive home or car or whatever) and still receive FA it means that they have been deemed needy.

If someone has nice clothes or a nice job or a nice house and still gets FA that means they qualified. The OP claims she knows details about the original target's house/mortgage, income, and that the kids go to expensive sleepaway camps too (they may get scholarships there as well just to get your knickers in another knot). Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. Maybe the FA recipient is honest and getting FA anyway, maybe not.

But there are honest recipients (like me) that you obviously wouldn't like. You would say I should move. You would say that I should sell my 7 year old junky car and get an even junkier one and definitely not a German one no matter what. You would tell me not to have nice clothes for my kids (though they came for free as hand me downs). You would say not to eat out ever (though we don't, and when we do it is for a special occassion or with a coupon). You would say no camps because my DC gets FA and therefore we cannot spend any money during the summer (though they need to be somewhere). You would say never go on vacation. Oh yeah, we don't. Nevertheless, sit there judging others. It is easy to cast stones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are forms to fill out where the children's assets are disclosed, including any trust funds. it would be dishonest to exclude any assets from the FA forms. They ask about all real estate owned or rented, all vehicles, the price of clubs and vacations, all assets and debts. And the debts are separated out from mortgage, equity loans, car payments, consumer debts (ie credit card) and other debts (ie student loans from the parent). All of these inputs also require further clarification. So the school sees the numbers as well as the explanantions (hypothetically such as $25,000 is in credit card debt, $10,000 alimony owed, $40,000 med school loans, whatnot).

If someone is gaming the system and not disclosing their assets, this is indeed fraud. You have to sign something, and also submit your tax forms as proof (which means they cheat on their taxes too). If someone has disclosed their financial data (ie high income, expensive home or car or whatever) and still receive FA it means that they have been deemed needy.

If someone has nice clothes or a nice job or a nice house and still gets FA that means they qualified. The OP claims she knows details about the original target's house/mortgage, income, and that the kids go to expensive sleepaway camps too (they may get scholarships there as well just to get your knickers in another knot). Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. Maybe the FA recipient is honest and getting FA anyway, maybe not.

But there are honest recipients (like me) that you obviously wouldn't like. You would say I should move. You would say that I should sell my 7 year old junky car and get an even junkier one and definitely not a German one no matter what. You would tell me not to have nice clothes for my kids (though they came for free as hand me downs). You would say not to eat out ever (though we don't, and when we do it is for a special occassion or with a coupon). You would say no camps because my DC gets FA and therefore we cannot spend any money during the summer (though they need to be somewhere). You would say never go on vacation. Oh yeah, we don't. Nevertheless, sit there judging others. It is easy to cast stones.

The only thing I was saying was that the person who has $700K equity in a $1million house should use some of that equity to pay for tuition. You have managed to address all the other aspects (camps, clothes, car) but have neglected to address the one critical one. Why is a person with $700K equity in a house, with a substantial income getting financial aid, or should I say taking financial aid from another family?

I didn't say people who drive Mercedes shouldn't get financial aid. I was very specific. A $1 million dollar house. I stand by my statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are forms to fill out where the children's assets are disclosed, including any trust funds. it would be dishonest to exclude any assets from the FA forms. They ask about all real estate owned or rented, all vehicles, the price of clubs and vacations, all assets and debts. And the debts are separated out from mortgage, equity loans, car payments, consumer debts (ie credit card) and other debts (ie student loans from the parent). All of these inputs also require further clarification. So the school sees the numbers as well as the explanantions (hypothetically such as $25,000 is in credit card debt, $10,000 alimony owed, $40,000 med school loans, whatnot).

If someone is gaming the system and not disclosing their assets, this is indeed fraud. You have to sign something, and also submit your tax forms as proof (which means they cheat on their taxes too). If someone has disclosed their financial data (ie high income, expensive home or car or whatever) and still receive FA it means that they have been deemed needy.

If someone has nice clothes or a nice job or a nice house and still gets FA that means they qualified. The OP claims she knows details about the original target's house/mortgage, income, and that the kids go to expensive sleepaway camps too (they may get scholarships there as well just to get your knickers in another knot). Maybe she does, maybe she doesn't. Maybe the FA recipient is honest and getting FA anyway, maybe not.

But there are honest recipients (like me) that you obviously wouldn't like. You would say I should move. You would say that I should sell my 7 year old junky car and get an even junkier one and definitely not a German one no matter what. You would tell me not to have nice clothes for my kids (though they came for free as hand me downs). You would say not to eat out ever (though we don't, and when we do it is for a special occassion or with a coupon). You would say no camps because my DC gets FA and therefore we cannot spend any money during the summer (though they need to be somewhere). You would say never go on vacation. Oh yeah, we don't. Nevertheless, sit there judging others. It is easy to cast stones.

The only thing I was saying was that the person who has $700K equity in a $1million house should use some of that equity to pay for tuition. You have managed to address all the other aspects (camps, clothes, car) but have neglected to address the one critical one. Why is a person with $700K equity in a house, with a substantial income getting financial aid, or should I say taking financial aid from another family?

I didn't say people who drive Mercedes shouldn't get financial aid. I was very specific. A $1 million dollar house. I stand by my statement.

How do you know that the $700,000 equity in someone else's house can be liquidated for anywhere close to $700,000 in this slow real estate market, or that the equity or can be borrowed against in the current environment of stingy lenders and low-house-value assessments? How do you know that the equity in not legally encumbered in some other way? You simply don't know.