Universal AP English & History at Wilson next year for 11th grade

[Anonymous]

Is there a successful example of this approach anywhere that DC is using as a model?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that they are trying to pull kids up, not bring kids down. Ms. Martin does not need the white parents calling, no matter how supportive you say you are; I think they can handle it. A few years ago Ms. Martin said when people were pushing back on large AP class sizes that it was fine because they didn't need the help at that level, so perhaps she will work to get class sizes down this way, which benefits all kids.

I have a senior and and last year in AP English the kids were reading different books. This year too. It hasn't been one book for the entire class. People need to relax and if your kid later has issues, bring it up.

Please clarify: they were reading different books in the same class? What do you mean?

Yes, there were groups and they each read different books. I think they got to choose, but my kid isn't here and so I can't confirm. He read Homegoing and Dracula and really liked both. I don't know about anything else, but he recommended both to me, which is why I know about those.

Also, I came here to address people worried about the Honors kid thinking he's going to ace the APs, and I'm not sure that's correct either. If anything he may get B's, in effect a lower score. In any event, Wilson ranks, so that kid would not rank above the other students who got A's normally in AP. I think people need to remember that there are LOTS of very bright, very motivated students there who really love the school. The seniors have had good college admissions this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that they are trying to pull kids up, not bring kids down. Ms. Martin does not need the white parents calling, no matter how supportive you say you are; I think they can handle it. A few years ago Ms. Martin said when people were pushing back on large AP class sizes that it was fine because they didn't need the help at that level, so perhaps she will work to get class sizes down this way, which benefits all kids.

I have a senior and and last year in AP English the kids were reading different books. This year too. It hasn't been one book for the entire class. People need to relax and if your kid later has issues, bring it up.

Please clarify: they were reading different books in the same class? What do you mean?

Yes, there were groups and they each read different books. I think they got to choose, but my kid isn't here and so I can't confirm. He read Homegoing and Dracula and really liked both. I don't know about anything else, but he recommended both to me, which is why I know about those.

Also, I came here to address people worried about the Honors kid thinking he's going to ace the APs, and I'm not sure that's correct either. If anything he may get B's, in effect a lower score. In any event, Wilson ranks, so that kid would not rank above the other students who got A's normally in AP. I think people need to remember that there are LOTS of very bright, very motivated students there who really love the school. The seniors have had good college admissions this year.

I guess I'm fine with it as long as the AP classes are truly rigorous as they should be and the teachers understand not to engage in grade inflation. A "C" level student should get a "C"; and if s/he can't handle it, just go back down the the regular course.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

Wait, I guess I didn't understand from the beginning: So ALL the classes will be "AP" classes? I thought that there would still be regular classes and anyone who wanted AP could enroll in AP. But you're saying the actual policy is "everybody takes AP"...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

Wait, I guess I didn't understand from the beginning: So ALL the classes will be "AP" classes? I thought that there would still be regular classes and anyone who wanted AP could enroll in AP. But you're saying the actual policy is "everybody takes AP"...?

yes, there will be one level for history and ELA in 11th grade: AP.

[Anonymous]

OMFG, that's nucking futs!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

actually the 4X4 schedule makes it worse because a lot of material is covered in half the time. plus, kids who finish in January will have to wait months to take the test. kids who take the AP class in the second semester starting on February 1, will have a class ending around June 20 but the test will be in mid May, giving them even less time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMFG, that's nucking futs!!!

yup, that's what we have been saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMFG, that's nucking futs!!!

yup, that's what we have been saying.

I'm really sorry. What a disaster. In normal times, you might be able to do something about it, but with Covid and the DL situation, there's less political bandwidth to correct something like this in time for next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

actually the 4X4 schedule makes it worse because a lot of material is covered in half the time. plus, kids who finish in January will have to wait months to take the test. kids who take the AP class in the second semester starting on February 1, will have a class ending around June 20 but the test will be in mid May, giving them even less time.

It's not covered in half the time...the classes meet every day under the 4x4 schedule (as opposed to every other day under the old schedule). This year has been an anomoly because of COVID screwing up everything and Wednesdays being off...

On another point, here's an interesting article about a school that has done this (or at least something similar)...it's actually seems pretty balanced. If anything, it appears most of the pushback (while initially from folks like those on this listserve) came from those who felt their kids needed a less demanding option.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/gifted-programs-worsen-inequality-here-s-what-happens-when-schools-n1243147

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

actually the 4X4 schedule makes it worse because a lot of material is covered in half the time. plus, kids who finish in January will have to wait months to take the test. kids who take the AP class in the second semester starting on February 1, will have a class ending around June 20 but the test will be in mid May, giving them even less time.

It's not covered in half the time...the classes meet every day under the 4x4 schedule (as opposed to every other day under the old schedule). This year has been an anomoly because of COVID screwing up everything and Wednesdays being off...

On another point, here's an interesting article about a school that has done this (or at least something similar)...it's actually seems pretty balanced. If anything, it appears most of the pushback (while initially from folks like those on this listserve) came from those who felt their kids needed a less demanding option.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/gifted-programs-worsen-inequality-here-s-what-happens-when-schools-n1243147

This article...demonstrates that the purpose of eradicating "gifted" programs is not to produce scholars, but to produce an acceptable level of competence for young adults entering the workforce. A laudable policy goal, yes, but not heartening for a parent who wishes to push a child do be an especially high-functioning leader in society. Basically, it's an argument for private schooling!!

Separately, the article does not really advocate for eradicating "AP" classes, either, as at least a primary purpose of taking APs is to pass a test in order to receive early college credit. Arguably, if the principal or school board deems such a goal to be unworthy of allocating funding within public schools, the logic would be to eradicate the AP courses altogether in favor of no course distinctions at all. "AP for all" is just weird, however you care to look at it. "Honors for All" makes more sense than "AP for all," considering the main point of taking APs.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, that article provides like zero support for Wilson’s approach.

It highlights 2 districts. The one in NY had a plan to make changes and provide extra support starting with elementary schools and then working up. And they provided real extra support to help students struggling with the higher intensity. There’s a readon the complaints here are from people expecting watering down, not people worried about higher expectations. Seriously, which direction do you expect DCPS to shift?!

The other set of schools highlighted in the article are DCPS schools with SEM! They acknowledge that the redults are inconclusive that SEM mskes a meaningful difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, Wilson has had the best DL of any school that I know of in DCPS. Dr. Martin has really made sure the teachers have been all in--my kid has had synchronous class all day, four days a week and enough work to keep her busy all day on Wednesday. I agree that AP classes can be taught with differentiation and, if all 11th grade English and History classes are now AP, the AP classes won't get any bigger because there should be a lot more of them. I also think the 4x4 schedule--which means longer classes-- may offer more creative options for break outs.

Give it a chance.

actually the 4X4 schedule makes it worse because a lot of material is covered in half the time. plus, kids who finish in January will have to wait months to take the test. kids who take the AP class in the second semester starting on February 1, will have a class ending around June 20 but the test will be in mid May, giving them even less time.

It's not covered in half the time...the classes meet every day under the 4x4 schedule (as opposed to every other day under the old schedule). This year has been an anomoly because of COVID screwing up everything and Wednesdays being off...

On another point, here's an interesting article about a school that has done this (or at least something similar)...it's actually seems pretty balanced. If anything, it appears most of the pushback (while initially from folks like those on this listserve) came from those who felt their kids needed a less demanding option.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/education/gifted-programs-worsen-inequality-here-s-what-happens-when-schools-n1243147

it is, even if the number of hours is the same, the class is done in 4 months with an intensive pace that makes is even more difficult for the kids to "digest" and learn the materials. if it was just the number of hours, then you could just have a class 12 hours a day for three weeks and be done with it. and the issue with the test 4 months after the end of the class for the first semester kids, or one month before the class ends for the second semester kids is still there. I understand this year with DL and Covid, but keeping that schedule in the future is bad.

the article you mention talks about a school in NY with 1000 kids, 80% white and MC/UMC and only 20% minorities, with only 15% receiving free or reduced lunch.

I personally think that the tracking system in US school is awful, but I also think that classes should be rigorous and that only kids at grade level should be in a grade. I went to public school in Europe and that was the system there. no tracking, all kids in 6th grade were taking 6th grade classes, same for all other grades. but at the end of the year a student needed to have at least a passing grade in each subject (meaning the student had sufficient knowledge of the material studied during the year) to move on to the next year. if in some subjects the student had a lower than passing grade, the student had study all summer on his/her own, no summer school, and take an exam right before school started and get a passing grade. if the student passed, the student could move on to the next grade, if the student did not get a passing grade even just in one subject, the student had to repeat the entire year. so in every class there were kids with various abilities, from the math wiz who always got A+ to the math floater just trying to survive and get a decent grade. there were no people who were seriously behind and could not keep the pace of the class. our system was by no mean perfect but generations of working class kids got a good education and were able to get better jobs than their parents

[Anonymous]

The last PARCC showed that only 58% of Wilson students were at grade level for ELA. Being at grade level is barely is a minimum standard and yet almost half the school isn't there. This sounds like a great academic fit for universal AP English. Insane.