VA math changes - ways to speak out

[Anonymous]

How will this help students who need certain math courses because they are required as prereqs for SCIENCE classes?

How on earth will teachers differentiate or will ability groupings be abolished?

No one has asked for the input of UVA, VTech or W&M math departments? Any other state institutions? This cannot not impact student preparation for college rigor.
Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Advanced physics classes will be out without calculus.
This is probably the goal of the VMPI people, eliminating honors classes in all subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Step back, parents. YOU are a big part of the problem.

I think this is a great move by VA to reset our education.

The don’t complain when your children can’t afford to own a home or have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Step back, parents. YOU are a big part of the problem.

I think this is a great move by VA to reset our education.

The don’t complain when your children can’t afford to own a home or have kids.

+1. The people who think this is a great idea are the same people who will be pissed in ten years' time because their kids won't have the math chops to get into a decent college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Education should be about how many students “need” calculus or whatever course. That’s how the dumbing down begins, and once started it will never stop. Learning for learning’s sake matters, too.
It’s clear from many posters on this thread that they are fine with— even happy about— holding back advanced students so they can’t “get ahead” of other students. That’s a terrible attitude that in the end serves no one.
It also just isn’t true that kids are only in advanced math because their parents are pushy.
Equity is supposed to mean providing everyone with what they need, not providing everyone with the same exact thing. Options in math classes are great, but don’t hamstring kids that are ready for more difficult classes.

+1. Some parents are angry that their kids are not in advanced math so want to hold back the top learners. How does that help your kid? Have the schools teach to and account for all learning styles. This just sounds vindictive and a dumbing down of the system.

[Anonymous]

Some of you really don't get it. There is systematic inequality built into the current system. It isn't that your 'advanced' kid has a "different learning style." It's that your kid grew up in a house with parents who could read their math textbook and help them with homework. Many of you DO pay for tutors. You sent your kid to a quality preschool. Your kid has had every opportunity to learn and, yes, get ahead of other kids who are just as smart, talented, and capable as your child.

This change levels the playing field. If you don't like it, tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Step back, parents. YOU are a big part of the problem.

I think this is a great move by VA to reset our education.

The don’t complain when your children can’t afford to own a home or have kids.

+1. The people who think this is a great idea are the same people who will be pissed in ten years' time because their kids won't have the math chops to get into a decent college.

How much more do they need than calculus?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of you really don't get it. There is systematic inequality built into the current system. It isn't that your 'advanced' kid has a "different learning style." It's that your kid grew up in a house with parents who could read their math textbook and help them with homework. Many of you DO pay for tutors. You sent your kid to a quality preschool. Your kid has had every opportunity to learn and, yes, get ahead of other kids who are just as smart, talented, and capable as your child.

This change levels the playing field. If you don't like it, tough.

x1 million

Your UMC kid with unlimited opportunities will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Virginia still need to remediate centuries of obstructing education of AAs.

Slavery
Anti-literacy laws
Jim Crow
Segregation
Redlining
Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So once again "equity" means bringing everyone down rather than bringing the lower performing students up. How does this solve anything?

This is a terrible idea and is going to have lot of unintended consequences.

Like bridges collapsing.

[Anonymous]

Virginia is getting weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia is getting weird.

Getting rid of old, racist ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Virginia is getting weird.

22 other states have adopted or are in the process of adopting similar measures. And counting.

All of this was done in coordination with state colleges and universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!

I like the greater variety of offerings in 11th-12th and the idea of introducing statistical concepts earlier. My main issue with it is this idea that magically, a teacher is now going to be able to appropriately address the needs of students from remedial to gifted all in one classroom, whether it's kindergarten or 10th grade. That is fantasy land. Reality is the teacher will have to focus on the students who are below standard. The students who pick it up quickly end up bored, turned off of math, and probably drafted to be teachers' aides. It seems their solution to not enough URM students being identified as gifted in math is to just not allow anyone to be gifted in math and get an appropriately demanding experience in the subject. That's not equity. I don't mind that my kids would be introduced to algebra in 8th grade (that's when I took it) but I do mind that they would lose their love of math because they are doing the same thing over and over while the teacher tries to get other kids up to speed. If it's so great to give the quicker kids deeper exploration, then there should be different class sections for the kids who are ready for that depth and a teacher who is actually focused on their needs.

It is also a concern that they are IMO being vague about what they mean about getting to calculus. Will AP Calculus BC be offered? Or is it just AB? Kids applying to elite engineering programs should have BC to be competitive. They say, oh, it won't be a disadvantage in applications since students are judged against what's offered at your school. So, fine (maybe?) for admissions but then you show up for college and are in classes with students who have mostly taken BC. Now you are not able to perform at the same level.

Kids get pushed into accelerated math because their parents have either paid for tutors or have the ability to expose them to advanced math concepts at home, and they've picked up the concepts. Those kids aren't necessarily gifted in math, they are just ahead. It would be a nice change for northern Virginians to get out of this competitive thing we do in all aspects of our lives, including pushing and pressuring our children to be ahead of their peers. 95% of kids won't need BC calculus. Those who do will get it in college again anyway. Hate to break it to you, but there's not much difference between AB and BC. If your kid was ready for BC in 12th, they'll be ready as a freshman.

Some kids are crazy bored and push themselves into accelerated math, without tutors or parents pushing them at home. They're crazy bored because, as PP noted, they end up as just the teacher's aide, responsible for teaching all their peers instead of learning anything new themselves.

I'm also concerned about the vaguery of calculus - I'm worried that the students who do want to take it will have to, in practice, take a year of summer school to get the full progression of topics to get them ready for calculus in 12th.

Those students are a very, very, small minority. And, let's be honest here. If you're thinking your kid needs to take pre-calc in the summer before 12th, you're one of those tiger parents who are precisely why the system needs to change.

URMs are just as talented in math as their asian and white peers, but most don't have the means to jump ahead and demonstrate that. Now the system will be fair. Your snowflake will survive.

How do you know the students who do well in Algebra in 8th grade (remember, these are 'accelerated' students) without tutors are a 'very small minority'? I don't think you can take DCUM as a fair cross-section of the county. I'd posit they're the majority of students in these classes.

It's absolutely ridiculous for kids to *have* to take any summer school classes. That's the point - if there's *no path to calculus in 12th without summer school* (which is the concern above) that's a problem.

I wholeheartedly agree that URM are just as talented in math as asian/white peers. I would 100% support efforts designed to provide additional support/enrichment to those students to help level the playing field that more affluent students get by having parents that put them in preschool, read to them every night, and can help answer questions on their homework.

Right now, you're saying the system will be more fair because the kids with higher SES will not be permitted to perform to the best of their ability. Should we ban parents from reading to their preschoolers so that everyone is more 'equal' in Kindergarten? No, that's insane. We should put in efforts to help every child get that same kind of enrichment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a video on this cite that walks through the initiative: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml#time

It looks like a positive thing. Kids can still take calculus by the end of high school. I don't know what some of you are talking about. VA is modernizing their math curriculum which has been the same damn courses for the past 30+ years. Kids who love STEM but have a particular focus can tailor 1/2 credit modules to fit their interests, which means they will be more engaged in what they're learning. THAT'S HUGE! So now a kid who is interested in computer science can take modules in logic and reasoning and discrete mathmatics. A kid interested in data science can take statistics and data analysis. Or, they can still take calculus if they really want or need to do so. AND, they're still offering AP classes. I don't get why some parents are so up in arms. It sounds great!

I like the greater variety of offerings in 11th-12th and the idea of introducing statistical concepts earlier. My main issue with it is this idea that magically, a teacher is now going to be able to appropriately address the needs of students from remedial to gifted all in one classroom, whether it's kindergarten or 10th grade. That is fantasy land. Reality is the teacher will have to focus on the students who are below standard. The students who pick it up quickly end up bored, turned off of math, and probably drafted to be teachers' aides. It seems their solution to not enough URM students being identified as gifted in math is to just not allow anyone to be gifted in math and get an appropriately demanding experience in the subject. That's not equity. I don't mind that my kids would be introduced to algebra in 8th grade (that's when I took it) but I do mind that they would lose their love of math because they are doing the same thing over and over while the teacher tries to get other kids up to speed. If it's so great to give the quicker kids deeper exploration, then there should be different class sections for the kids who are ready for that depth and a teacher who is actually focused on their needs.

It is also a concern that they are IMO being vague about what they mean about getting to calculus. Will AP Calculus BC be offered? Or is it just AB? Kids applying to elite engineering programs should have BC to be competitive. They say, oh, it won't be a disadvantage in applications since students are judged against what's offered at your school. So, fine (maybe?) for admissions but then you show up for college and are in classes with students who have mostly taken BC. Now you are not able to perform at the same level.

Kids get pushed into accelerated math because their parents have either paid for tutors or have the ability to expose them to advanced math concepts at home, and they've picked up the concepts. Those kids aren't necessarily gifted in math, they are just ahead. It would be a nice change for northern Virginians to get out of this competitive thing we do in all aspects of our lives, including pushing and pressuring our children to be ahead of their peers. 95% of kids won't need BC calculus. Those who do will get it in college again anyway. Hate to break it to you, but there's not much difference between AB and BC. If your kid was ready for BC in 12th, they'll be ready as a freshman.

Some kids are crazy bored and push themselves into accelerated math, without tutors or parents pushing them at home. They're crazy bored because, as PP noted, they end up as just the teacher's aide, responsible for teaching all their peers instead of learning anything new themselves.

I'm also concerned about the vaguery of calculus - I'm worried that the students who do want to take it will have to, in practice, take a year of summer school to get the full progression of topics to get them ready for calculus in 12th.

Those students are a very, very, small minority. And, let's be honest here. If you're thinking your kid needs to take pre-calc in the summer before 12th, you're one of those tiger parents who are precisely why the system needs to change.

URMs are just as talented in math as their asian and white peers, but most don't have the means to jump ahead and demonstrate that. Now the system will be fair. Your snowflake will survive.

How do you know the students who do well in Algebra in 8th grade (remember, these are 'accelerated' students) without tutors are a 'very small minority'? I don't think you can take DCUM as a fair cross-section of the county. I'd posit they're the majority of students in these classes.

It's absolutely ridiculous for kids to *have* to take any summer school classes. That's the point - if there's *no path to calculus in 12th without summer school* (which is the concern above) that's a problem.

I wholeheartedly agree that URM are just as talented in math as asian/white peers. I would 100% support efforts designed to provide additional support/enrichment to those students to help level the playing field that more affluent students get by having parents that put them in preschool, read to them every night, and can help answer questions on their homework.

Right now, you're saying the system will be more fair because the kids with higher SES will not be permitted to perform to the best of their ability. Should we ban parents from reading to their preschoolers so that everyone is more 'equal' in Kindergarten? No, that's insane. We should put in efforts to help every child get that same kind of enrichment.

Great - you finally caught on. Go put your efforts there.