Arbitration ruling on Reopening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

It’s also bullshit. Of course a 6 year old will learn precious little in DL. Any 6 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

It’s also bullshit. Of course a 6 year old will learn precious little in DL. Any 6 year old.

My kid is doing fine and is 6 years old. In person is certainly better but my child is still learning plenty. My 3 year old is another story. 1st graders already did iReady, DIBLES, Lexia, etc. depending on your school. They already had time looking at a computer screen. Let's also not act like your child didn't have screen time before DL.

My concern is now that there is this much screen time I have made screen hours more strict and now come up with other activities but that's a small price to pay.

[Anonymous]

Well aren't you special? #mommymartyrspecial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not moved, PP. My postman still delivers the mail. I'd have been let go from my job months ago if I didn't show up at my office. My physical therapist still treats patients in person like my primary care doctor and dentist. Most of the daycare places in my neighborhood reopened in Sept.

Please pipe down and get on with it already. Taxpayers pay teachers salaries and tens of thousands of us want in-person for our children, thanks.

If you don't understand the difference between the working conditions of a postman and a teacher, you're too dim to be raising children.

Google "prolonged indoor contact + COVID."

You're welcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Attorney, parent, former DCPS teacher, spouse of a DCPS administrator.

I'm disappointed--but not surprised--that many people on this forum see the vaccine as a straightforward antidote and feel that teachers need to just suck it up, get vaccinated, and show up. The Pfizer vaccine is not 100% effective at preventing illness, nor is it known whether it prevents asymptomatic spread. This means that teachers face a legitimate risk of getting Covid at work and potentially bringing it home to their families. Many of you who will send your kids back may feel that's a risk you're willing to take. That decision about risk tolerance is made on an individual basis, and you don't get to make it for other people.

I'm more surprised with the discussion of teachers not deserving paychecks or only being self-interested. When teachers joined DCPS, no one consented to working in a Covid environment, vaccine or not. Saying that teachers have to just show up in this new environment because they're receiving a paycheck doesn't take seriously that in an employment contract the parties mutually agree to certain key terms. While the WTU has bargained for a MOU, that is an agreement intended to help the parties move forward in good faith, not an agreement that binds all teachers to particular actions. Teachers did not get to choose whether to accept working under the terms in the MOU, and of course the situation has evolved.

Also, suggesting that teachers are doing less work now is ignorant. Converting to an entirely new format has been extremely challenging and requires as much or more time, not less. Most of us non-teachers now working from home are doing more or less the same tasks that we were at work (myself included). Teachers' tasks have changed dramatically, which requires learning new skills and technology and adapting content. I appreciate that it's hard/costly to work from home and manage children, but that doesn't mean that teachers aren't earning their paychecks.

I hope that those of you willing to throw out teachers who aren't getting in line to go back to school practice a little perspective taking. As you should know, dismantling a trained workforce would have serious long-term repercussions. I'm personally pretty sure it's not worth trading that to ensure there's a warm body available to babysit your kids for the next 5 months.

Wow! Someone with critical thinking skills on this forum. Few and far between. Most people cannot think past their own needs and therefore are riled up. They act like the pandemic was brought on just to mess with their neat hyper-organized lives.

No vaccine is 100% effective. If teachers don't want to teach in person than they should not be prioritized to get the vaccine. How about we give teachers 50% of their pay checks since they are doing around 50% of their job? Many of us non-teachers now working from home are doing more or less the same tasks that we were at work while managing remote learning for our kids and doing a lot of what teachers normally do. Many teachers in other parts of the country have been in the classroom for months without the vaccine as have doctors, nurses, other hcps, bus drivers, pilots, flight attendants and many essential works who keep the economy on life support. Why are the teachers in DC so special that they can't go back and do their jobs once vaccinated? Add to this that in other countries schools are open and the CDC the risk of community spread from schools is low. It is time for teachers to do their job and go back to work.

But of course, they are not doing 50% of their job. They are doing 100% of the job (you don't like it. We get it, but they are doing it). Providing you childcare is 0% of their job. You can throw yourself on the ground and scream and shout and kick yoiur feet and pound your fists as much as you like and scream YES IT IS YES IT IS YES IT IS!!! but you're wrong.

In a pandemic, public schools are not required to provide childcare to meet the requirements of their employers (who are not you) or of the state (also not you). No, your tiny fraction of education-marked property taxes do not make you their employer.

Grow up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a union member who is very scared to see what's going to happen. I have a real fear of going back - i'm one of the few who truly has been doing almost everything possible to avoid covid, no travel socializing etc- but I also recognize that the conditions that were set by our union were met, and that kids do need IP instruction.

So, it's stressful to make a decision as I believe in standing up for what is right-but what is right here?

You’re framing the question nicely.

I’m a parent. To me, what would be right would be for DCPS to allow teachers to be vaccinated according to the recommended schedule, and allow the vaccines to take full effect before reopening school.

Once teachers are vaccinated...all the business about HVAC and toilets, it’s to protect the kids of parents who are hellbent on in-person learning. Ironic.

I guess vaccination protocol wasn’t in the MOA, maybe bc it was signed before the vaccine was available?

That’s not the right answer. Teacher, I am truly sorry you are this anxious about returning. I would encourage you to tune out to some degree from some of the places you are getting your information currently and tune in to more scientific sources. The reality is that things aren’t going great with covid right now and no one knows what the future holds, but there are also protocols that can be followed for in person teaching that make it safer than many other in person activities. It’s probably worth your time to learn those protocols and not get caught up with the noise the WTU is pointing out. Sorry for the tough love approach, but you can do this and the kids need you. Be safe.

Wow. What pseudosuperior, patronizing garbage.

Your "science" is faulty. You are the one who needs better sources.

Your kids need YOU, parent. Teachers will teach them safely from home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

Speak for yourself. Our young ES kids and the young ES kids of everyone we know (multiple households) except one family are learning just fine from their excellent teachers during distance learning.

Now please embarrass yourself and tell me that I don't know my own kids and that I don't know that they're learning, because yes, I do and I will laugh at your desperation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

NP. No, it's not. It's a pointed response to yet another hysterical person screaming OMG DL DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE NOBODY IS LEARNING FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE!!!" when they do not speak for everyone and their opinion is not fact, no matter how very, very much they want to pretend that it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the part that isn't clear - i.e. can the arbiter actually issue an opinion that would delay Monday's reopening? If for example, the arbiter rules that DPCS violated all the complaints filed by the WTU, would the result be no reopening on February 1st?

"If the arbiter does not rule in the union’s favor — or takes too long to rule — Washington Teachers’ Union President Elizabeth Davis said she is considering seeking an injunction, which she believes could delay the reopening of schools."

There is not going to be a system-wide strike of teachers. The union only requires a quorum that is under 5%, even if it approves there is no indication that the majority of teachers support it.

Many teachers are completely disassociated with what is happening with the union right now.

.

This. I’m going back because I’m being paid to do a job and IPL is better for many of my students. All teachers were given choices. Many families were given choices. I’m sorry for those families that were not. It’s a very personal decision. Can we just get on with it already?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

NP. No, it's not. It's a pointed response to yet another hysterical person screaming OMG DL DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE NOBODY IS LEARNING FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE!!!" when they do not speak for everyone and their opinion is not fact, no matter how very, very much they want to pretend that it is.

Some young children are fine with DL. The majority are not. Distance Learning is vastly inferior to in-person learning, particularly for special populations, including younger children. This is well-known in education research--so much so that researchers do not need to cite previous reports.

I encourage everyone in this thread to read Chapter 3 of the National Academies report: Reopening K-12 Schools During the COVID-19 Pandemic: Prioritizing Health, Equity, and Communities. It's free and not long.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25858/reopening-k-12-schools-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-prioritizing

I find it extremely disturbing when I hear ES teachers saying that the majority of their children are doing fine, or that schools do not have a childcare function. Education research is extremely clear about these topics, and I find it very concerning each time I hear teachers who ignore expert consensus, based on data and research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

NP. No, it's not. It's a pointed response to yet another hysterical person screaming OMG DL DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE NOBODY IS LEARNING FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE!!!" when they do not speak for everyone and their opinion is not fact, no matter how very, very much they want to pretend that it is.

Some young children are fine with DL. The majority are not. Distance Learning is vastly inferior to in-person learning, particularly for special populations, including younger children. This is well-known in education research--so much so that researchers do not need to cite previous reports.

I encourage everyone in this thread to read Chapter 3 of the National Academies report: Reopening K-12 Schools During the COVID-19 Pandemic: Prioritizing Health, Equity, and Communities. It's free and not long.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25858/reopening-k-12-schools-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-prioritizing

I find it extremely disturbing when I hear ES teachers saying that the majority of their children are doing fine, or that schools do not have a childcare function. Education research is extremely clear about these topics, and I find it very concerning each time I hear teachers who ignore expert consensus, based on data and research.

+1

Maybe one of the more disturbing things I've learned this pandemic is how little teachers who are supposedly trained really understand education, the purpose of schools, or their jobs, and how little they care about any of the above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

NP. No, it's not. It's a pointed response to yet another hysterical person screaming OMG DL DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE NOBODY IS LEARNING FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE!!!" when they do not speak for everyone and their opinion is not fact, no matter how very, very much they want to pretend that it is.

Some young children are fine with DL. The majority are not. Distance Learning is vastly inferior to in-person learning, particularly for special populations, including younger children. This is well-known in education research--so much so that researchers do not need to cite previous reports.

I encourage everyone in this thread to read Chapter 3 of the National Academies report: Reopening K-12 Schools During the COVID-19 Pandemic: Prioritizing Health, Equity, and Communities. It's free and not long.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25858/reopening-k-12-schools-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-prioritizing

I find it extremely disturbing when I hear ES teachers saying that the majority of their children are doing fine, or that schools do not have a childcare function. Education research is extremely clear about these topics, and I find it very concerning each time I hear teachers who ignore expert consensus, based on data and research.

+1

Maybe one of the more disturbing things I've learned this pandemic is how little teachers who are supposedly trained really understand education, the purpose of schools, or their jobs, and how little they care about any of the above.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

NP. No, it's not. It's a pointed response to yet another hysterical person screaming OMG DL DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE NOBODY IS LEARNING FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE!!!" when they do not speak for everyone and their opinion is not fact, no matter how very, very much they want to pretend that it is.

Some young children are fine with DL. The majority are not. Distance Learning is vastly inferior to in-person learning, particularly for special populations, including younger children. This is well-known in education research--so much so that researchers do not need to cite previous reports.

I encourage everyone in this thread to read Chapter 3 of the National Academies report: Reopening K-12 Schools During the COVID-19 Pandemic: Prioritizing Health, Equity, and Communities. It's free and not long.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25858/reopening-k-12-schools-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-prioritizing

I find it extremely disturbing when I hear ES teachers saying that the majority of their children are doing fine, or that schools do not have a childcare function. Education research is extremely clear about these topics, and I find it very concerning each time I hear teachers who ignore expert consensus, based on data and research.

+1

Maybe one of the more disturbing things I've learned this pandemic is how little teachers who are supposedly trained really understand education, the purpose of schools, or their jobs, and how little they care about any of the above.

It's interesting on how little parents who were supposedly trained on how to be a parent really understand parenting, it's purpose, or their jobs....oh wait...
Maybe we should make it a requirement to have parent training before becoming one.

I won't tell you how to parent and you don't tell teachers what they do and don't know about their jobs. Sorry your kid just can't cut it in DL or maybe it's you...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that the WTU is clearly using this as a tactic and trying to shift the goalposts. They have not identified a single school with a specific issue by name. I am not denying that there may be school specific issues that need addressing, but (1) it’s not clear that this is the best way to do that and (2) that is clearly not the WTU’s actual goal. Look at the materials re: the WTU’s protest this weekend, it is not at all about MOA breaches but, once again, shifting the goalposts (this plan is inequitable... not until every teacher vaccinated... not until it’s safe (no definition)... nothing about MOA breaches & desired solutions).

The agreement was developed before at least two of the three strains of the mutated virus were found in the U.S. It may have been developed before the U.K. strain was identified in the U.S.

It's appropriate to shift the goalposts based on this new information.

Absolutely! The world changes. We're now in a world where the model we previously used to pay teachers for in person learning no longer holds. It's time to consider other options for remote education other than the WTU workforce that doesn't want to return. The insanity of the WTU arguing that things change and the sand can shift everywhere but under thier paychecks is ridiculous.

This. It's crazy that WTU teachers are still getting their entire paycheck and benefits while parents are forced to either do a big part of the teacher's job for them or pay to outsource the teacher's job to a private in-person provider. No teacher is doing 100% of their job remotely. If we're going to keep distance learning, then it would be in the best interest of the students to hire teachers in lower cost areas so we can pay them less. Then give part of the per pupil funding to parents to outsource in-person childcare, tutoring, and pods. Or just give up on distance learning and give parents a larger portion of the per pupil funding so they can outsource education completely to private providers. I guarantee that businesses would crop up to provide cost effective pods etc.

But really just reopen schools and assign teachers back to work.

Can we stop saying WTU teachers? As far as I know charter teachers are also getting full paychecks.

And they are teaching my kid full time and with excellent results. I feel sad for people like you (and your DCUM ilk) who are so very angry that you need to just whine and throw shade at everyone and everything. You are like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum. Stick to complaining about your school and stop assuming that every school and every family is suffering the same fate you perceive yourself to be suffering from.

Setting aside the in person v DL difference, what school is your kid in that they're getting teaching "full time." My Ker gets 3.5 hours/day 4 days a week and my PK3er gets 1.5 hours/day 4 days/week of live instruction and I thought that was actually on the more generous end of what schools are providing. Vanishingly few teachers are teaching anything close to full time... and almost no individual kids are getting full time instruction.

I agree that no students are getting full-time instruction but that doesn’t mean some or most teachers aren’t teaching all day depending on small group schedules or individual supports. The teachers I know are working very hard and in a very changing environment.

In the adult world, in the working world, it’s not about how hard you work. It’s about what you produce. If you say teachers are workin hard, ok, I believe you. But that means jack sh*t. Because 6 year olds aren’t learning anything from a year of virtual school.

You should get your child evaluated if they are 6 and not able to do DL at all.

NP but that was just a nasty comment. But you knew that when you wrote it. You also knew the PP didn’t say their 6 year old couldn’t ‘do DL’. Just that they weren’t learning.

It's not nasty, I find it odd some parents are saying their child can't learn via DL. 3/4 I totally get. But 6 is 1st grade, they should be able to learn a decent amount or their teacher is poor. Hmm you're right. Either it's the child or teacher.

DP. It's nasty. Come on.

NP. No, it's not. It's a pointed response to yet another hysterical person screaming OMG DL DOESN'T WORK FOR ANYONE NOBODY IS LEARNING FAILURE FAILURE FAILURE!!!" when they do not speak for everyone and their opinion is not fact, no matter how very, very much they want to pretend that it is.

Some young children are fine with DL. The majority are not. Distance Learning is vastly inferior to in-person learning, particularly for special populations, including younger children. This is well-known in education research--so much so that researchers do not need to cite previous reports.

I encourage everyone in this thread to read Chapter 3 of the National Academies report: Reopening K-12 Schools During the COVID-19 Pandemic: Prioritizing Health, Equity, and Communities. It's free and not long.
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25858/reopening-k-12-schools-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-prioritizing

I find it extremely disturbing when I hear ES teachers saying that the majority of their children are doing fine, or that schools do not have a childcare function. Education research is extremely clear about these topics, and I find it very concerning each time I hear teachers who ignore expert consensus, based on data and research.

+1

Maybe one of the more disturbing things I've learned this pandemic is how little teachers who are supposedly trained really understand education, the purpose of schools, or their jobs, and how little they care about any of the above.

It's interesting on how little parents who were supposedly trained on how to be a parent really understand parenting, it's purpose, or their jobs....oh wait...
Maybe we should make it a requirement to have parent training before becoming one.

I won't tell you how to parent and you don't tell teachers what they do and don't know about their jobs. Sorry your kid just can't cut it in DL or maybe it's you...

Yikes. This can't be a teacher with the above grammar and immaturity.