My aunt started working as a maid at the Watergate after graduating HS & bought a home in Arlington

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband works with a woman who bought a huge row house in DuPont circle in the early 80s on 1 fed salary. They still live there now. Ask yourself - what is today’s crime / neighborhood amenity equivalent of DuPont in the 80s? They didn’t buy into today’s DuPont, they took a risk.

Another fed we know bought in Lyon Village, Arlington before there was a Metro. 2 fed salaries, but very early on. Their friends thought they were moving “to the country”. What is the equivalent today to the commute and amenities from Arlington in the early 80s? They too many risk and it worked out.

All the people who moan about not being able to buy in Arlington, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Falls Church, etc. are not recognizing that those towns were not the towns they are today. There was never a time a maid or a landscaper could afford a home in the closest neighborhoods with the best schools and amenities. If you want to live that dream, make a bet on the next place and move there before it’s built up.

Grew up in Old Town in the late 70s. There were dozens and dozens of abandoned and boarded up old houses on Lee, Duke, Prince, etc. Those same houses now sell for 2 million without ever even going on the market.

The new people don’t get this. I lived in DuPont Circle in the 80’s in the basement apartment of a house that now would sell for multiple millions, and in one month, there were three murders within a block of my house. I rented a house in Old Town in the 90’s that was owned by a rich lady who bought up the houses and renovated them, just because she was on a personal mission to save the houses in the historic district. The house next to me was falling down until Habitat for Humanity took it on as a project. Even Georgetown wasn’t a place rich people lived until JFK moved in when he was a Senator.

Poor/lower middle class people have never been able to afford the most “fashionable” neighborhood in town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband works with a woman who bought a huge row house in DuPont circle in the early 80s on 1 fed salary. They still live there now. Ask yourself - what is today’s crime / neighborhood amenity equivalent of DuPont in the 80s? They didn’t buy into today’s DuPont, they took a risk.

Another fed we know bought in Lyon Village, Arlington before there was a Metro. 2 fed salaries, but very early on. Their friends thought they were moving “to the country”. What is the equivalent today to the commute and amenities from Arlington in the early 80s? They too many risk and it worked out.

All the people who moan about not being able to buy in Arlington, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Falls Church, etc. are not recognizing that those towns were not the towns they are today. There was never a time a maid or a landscaper could afford a home in the closest neighborhoods with the best schools and amenities. If you want to live that dream, make a bet on the next place and move there before it’s built up.

Grew up in Old Town in the late 70s. There were dozens and dozens of abandoned and boarded up old houses on Lee, Duke, Prince, etc. Those same houses now sell for 2 million without ever even going on the market.

The new people don’t get this. I lived in DuPont Circle in the 80’s in the basement apartment of a house that now would sell for multiple millions, and in one month, there were three murders within a block of my house. I rented a house in Old Town in the 90’s that was owned by a rich lady who bought up the houses and renovated them, just because she was on a personal mission to save the houses in the historic district. The house next to me was falling down until Habitat for Humanity took it on as a project. Even Georgetown wasn’t a place rich people lived until JFK moved in when he was a Senator.

Poor/lower middle class people have never been able to afford the most “fashionable” neighborhood in town.

Do you remember all of the shirtless muscular men roller blading up and down P Street during the summer?

[Anonymous]

We just purchased our second home in an area with fantastic schools. We paid just over $1m for the center hall colonial and that was actually a deal per the appraisal. We are the second owners and the original owners paid $135k in 1982. The husband worked his entire life at one company and the wife was a stay at home mom with their 3 kids. Just from chatting with the wife a bit, they lived a solid upper middle class life on one salary. Ski trips, beach trips, maybe one or two visits to Europe, camp for the kids, college tuition. That life isn’t coming back. The only reason we were able to afford that home, despite both of us working our butts off is because our first home (in a crappy area that is slowly becoming gentrified) sold for $300k more than we purchased it for 6 years ago. We were only able to afford the first home thanks to help from my in-laws. It’s frustrating to hear people say “well, folks back than didn’t need 6000 sq ft homes and all the latest amenities”. That’s not the reason why millennials are struggling to purchase homes. My friends who don’t have the luxury of family stepping in to help can’t afford an apartment, let alone a starter home.

[Anonymous]

We live in a coveted area in Arlington in a home worth 1.2m. Due to a combination of the usual special/lucky circumstances and being frugal, we owe less than 1/3 the value of the house on our mortgage in late 30's.

We have some blue collar neighbors who bought before us. We are two federal employees. Now all turnover in the neighborhood is teardowns/ new construction, and new owners with higher paying jobs.

The neighborhood gentrification, if you can call it that, has happened much faster than salary increase for us and other neighbors who have lived here a long time. Taxes go up and are a lot. If we had just 20% for a down payment, we could not afford the neighborhood any more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in a coveted area in Arlington in a home worth 1.2m. Due to a combination of the usual special/lucky circumstances and being frugal, we owe less than 1/3 the value of the house on our mortgage in late 30's.

We have some blue collar neighbors who bought before us. We are two federal employees. Now all turnover in the neighborhood is teardowns/ new construction, and new owners with higher paying jobs.

The neighborhood gentrification, if you can call it that, has happened much faster than salary increase for us and other neighbors who have lived here a long time. Taxes go up and are a lot. If we had just 20% for a down payment, we could not afford the neighborhood any more.

The taxes in gentrification is an issue. My mother in law pays 9k a year property on a house she paid 12k for in 1963.

That is like you paying 900k a year property tax on your 1.2 million dollar home

[Anonymous]

I can’t remember if it was this or another thread where I saw a poster saying people shouldn’t be upset about not being to afford (Bethesda, Arlington, etc.) around here the same way people in CA shouldn’t be upset at not being able to afford Beverly Hills.

And I’ve been thinking on that, at first going along with the logic. But I don’t think it’s quite applicable.

There are places like Beverly Hills and Manhattan that have been expensive since our entire lifetimes (for many of us). Whereas if you’re in the bracket of someone trying to by a first or move up home from your starter home, it feels like the goalposts were moved very quickly). You start saving to buy in X area and then realize your savings can’t match the pace of home appreciation. I guess watching something become further out of grasp is harder than just moving somewhere and knowing you can’t afford it b/c it just always has been unaffordable.

I’m sure 22 year olds moving here for the first time think of these close-in suburbs as being unattainable. But for many of us, especially if you graduated into the recession, it feels like first you get dumped into a crappy economy where there aren’t many jobs for recent grads, and then once you get your footing to start saving, the neighborhoods you like get insanely expensive before you can save.

Now, I’m not saying there’s anything to do about that. It’s life and not everyone gets what they want. It’s probably good advice to start looking at getting into the next affordable area before it becomes out of reach. But I think this explains why not being able to afford a small, older home in Arlington feels more disappointing than being told you can’t afford Malibu or whatever.

FWIW I did eke into a close-in neighborhood with some family help. But I understand why my priced out friends feel bummed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in a coveted area in Arlington in a home worth 1.2m. Due to a combination of the usual special/lucky circumstances and being frugal, we owe less than 1/3 the value of the house on our mortgage in late 30's.

We have some blue collar neighbors who bought before us. We are two federal employees. Now all turnover in the neighborhood is teardowns/ new construction, and new owners with higher paying jobs.

The neighborhood gentrification, if you can call it that, has happened much faster than salary increase for us and other neighbors who have lived here a long time. Taxes go up and are a lot. If we had just 20% for a down payment, we could not afford the neighborhood any more.

I heard that Arlington property taxes will have to rise 20% in April to off-set pandemic losses but hopefully this is just a rumor. I know Nashville just did a 30% increase but they are more dependent on tourism than most places.

[Anonymous]

1.5 is the new list price for updated SFHs in Arlington, Alexandria and Falls Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can’t remember if it was this or another thread where I saw a poster saying people shouldn’t be upset about not being to afford (Bethesda, Arlington, etc.) around here the same way people in CA shouldn’t be upset at not being able to afford Beverly Hills.

And I’ve been thinking on that, at first going along with the logic. But I don’t think it’s quite applicable.

There are places like Beverly Hills and Manhattan that have been expensive since our entire lifetimes (for many of us). Whereas if you’re in the bracket of someone trying to by a first or move up home from your starter home, it feels like the goalposts were moved very quickly). You start saving to buy in X area and then realize your savings can’t match the pace of home appreciation. I guess watching something become further out of grasp is harder than just moving somewhere and knowing you can’t afford it b/c it just always has been unaffordable.

I’m sure 22 year olds moving here for the first time think of these close-in suburbs as being unattainable. But for many of us, especially if you graduated into the recession, it feels like first you get dumped into a crappy economy where there aren’t many jobs for recent grads, and then once you get your footing to start saving, the neighborhoods you like get insanely expensive before you can save.

Now, I’m not saying there’s anything to do about that. It’s life and not everyone gets what they want. It’s probably good advice to start looking at getting into the next affordable area before it becomes out of reach. But I think this explains why not being able to afford a small, older home in Arlington feels more disappointing than being told you can’t afford Malibu or whatever.

FWIW I did eke into a close-in neighborhood with some family help. But I understand why my priced out friends feel bummed.

I think this is it, PP. Thanks. As a priced out millennial, I'd rather get a job in a cheaper area to afford a decent home and commute, but I also work in a sector where DC has the best and most jobs, so it's not that easy. I have tried! I'm still here!

I think the PPs saying "but lots of people never tried to afford the most fashionable area" are also not admitting that literal location and distance make this different than DuPont Circle or Arlington being less "fashionable" 40 years ago. The difference between Arlington in 1980 and Manassas in 2020 is that the Arlington resident didn't have a 2 hour commute to the office in DC. That's a huge part of standard of living that is inherent to a place and doesn't change based on fashion, schools (the true elephant in the room in this discussion), or housing cost. Thank God for telework and may it stick around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, Bethesda was full of families with a dad who was a fed. Three maybe four bedrooms upstairs. If you were lucky, a little tv room addition off the side and your parents had their own bathroom.

yes I think about this so often! Grew up in Bethesda in the late 70s through 80s. Back then, there were many single income families with 3-4 kids. A fed salary could buy a 3-4 bedroom house, take 2 modest vacations a year, and send all the kids to college.

Those were the days!

Now you have to be rich to be able to do all those things, especially the college for 3-4 kids part.

Do you remember the Shakey's restaurant across the street from the Bethesda metrorail station?

NP. I certainly remember the Shakey's: it was the BOMB! Hot Shoppes wasn't quite so much my taste. Chesapeake Bay Seafood house seemed great, too.

Yeah, as another 70s and 80s denizen of Bethesda, it's odd thinking how many single mothers could afford it. And a lot of those women were still doing 'women's work': nursing, nonprofits, etc. There still were big time lawyers and politicians and lots of people who went on to make MUCHO bucks. But it wasn't the current monoculture.

Do you remember the convenience store directly across the street?

It was always full of young shady looking individuals who probably went on to inherit their parent's Bethesda houses.

Are you talking about the old school Dart Drug on E-W HW?

I am pretty sure it was a convenience store with a gas station in front but I could be mistaken. I was quite young at the time.

I'm pretty sure the gas station was closer to Wisconsin, if not right on it. But yeah, very near Shakey's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, Bethesda was full of families with a dad who was a fed. Three maybe four bedrooms upstairs. If you were lucky, a little tv room addition off the side and your parents had their own bathroom.

yes I think about this so often! Grew up in Bethesda in the late 70s through 80s. Back then, there were many single income families with 3-4 kids. A fed salary could buy a 3-4 bedroom house, take 2 modest vacations a year, and send all the kids to college.

Those were the days!

Now you have to be rich to be able to do all those things, especially the college for 3-4 kids part.

Do you remember the Shakey's restaurant across the street from the Bethesda metrorail station?

NP. I certainly remember the Shakey's: it was the BOMB! Hot Shoppes wasn't quite so much my taste. Chesapeake Bay Seafood house seemed great, too.

Yeah, as another 70s and 80s denizen of Bethesda, it's odd thinking how many single mothers could afford it. And a lot of those women were still doing 'women's work': nursing, nonprofits, etc. There still were big time lawyers and politicians and lots of people who went on to make MUCHO bucks. But it wasn't the current monoculture.

Do you remember the convenience store directly across the street?

It was always full of young shady looking individuals who probably went on to inherit their parent's Bethesda houses.

Are you talking about the old school Dart Drug on E-W HW?

If I remember correctly the store was located right where the Round House Theatre is located today. The entrance doors still look the same. I remember seeing lots of shady looking teenagers around there trying to score either cigarettes or alcohol. Some of them must have successfully made underage purchases because I would see them behind BCC HS (this was years ago before the remodel) where the old basketball courts were standing around hanging out drinking and smoking. They were several years older then me so I would stay far away and not go anywhere near them.

There was both a Dart and Crown Books (same family!) where the Round House is now. It's was for decades a hangout area for dissolute youth. I remember a now nonagenarian world-class scientist lamenting how he thought his slacker son had brain damage from his youthful experiments, but because his father is pompous, too, he also mentioned that his son and friends read books out of the Crown Book's dumpster there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband works with a woman who bought a huge row house in DuPont circle in the early 80s on 1 fed salary. They still live there now. Ask yourself - what is today’s crime / neighborhood amenity equivalent of DuPont in the 80s? They didn’t buy into today’s DuPont, they took a risk.

Another fed we know bought in Lyon Village, Arlington before there was a Metro. 2 fed salaries, but very early on. Their friends thought they were moving “to the country”. What is the equivalent today to the commute and amenities from Arlington in the early 80s? They too many risk and it worked out.

All the people who moan about not being able to buy in Arlington, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Falls Church, etc. are not recognizing that those towns were not the towns they are today. There was never a time a maid or a landscaper could afford a home in the closest neighborhoods with the best schools and amenities. If you want to live that dream, make a bet on the next place and move there before it’s built up.

Grew up in Old Town in the late 70s. There were dozens and dozens of abandoned and boarded up old houses on Lee, Duke, Prince, etc. Those same houses now sell for 2 million without ever even going on the market.

The new people don’t get this. I lived in DuPont Circle in the 80’s in the basement apartment of a house that now would sell for multiple millions, and in one month, there were three murders within a block of my house. I rented a house in Old Town in the 90’s that was owned by a rich lady who bought up the houses and renovated them, just because she was on a personal mission to save the houses in the historic district. The house next to me was falling down until Habitat for Humanity took it on as a project. Even Georgetown wasn’t a place rich people lived until JFK moved in when he was a Senator.

Poor/lower middle class people have never been able to afford the most “fashionable” neighborhood in town.

Do you remember all of the shirtless muscular men roller blading up and down P Street during the summer?

I remember the roller blading joke that went with that time!

Q: What's the most difficult part of roller bladding?

A: Telling your Dad that you are gay!

[Anonymous]

I mean -- you can move to West Virginia or Delaware or Utah or Mississippi today and buy a house on a maid's salary.

Move somewhere undesirable and there's your key. You don't get to sit in one of the most desirable areas of zip codes and demand a home because your aunt got here before you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband works with a woman who bought a huge row house in DuPont circle in the early 80s on 1 fed salary. They still live there now. Ask yourself - what is today’s crime / neighborhood amenity equivalent of DuPont in the 80s? They didn’t buy into today’s DuPont, they took a risk.

Another fed we know bought in Lyon Village, Arlington before there was a Metro. 2 fed salaries, but very early on. Their friends thought they were moving “to the country”. What is the equivalent today to the commute and amenities from Arlington in the early 80s? They too many risk and it worked out.

All the people who moan about not being able to buy in Arlington, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Falls Church, etc. are not recognizing that those towns were not the towns they are today. There was never a time a maid or a landscaper could afford a home in the closest neighborhoods with the best schools and amenities. If you want to live that dream, make a bet on the next place and move there before it’s built up.

Grew up in Old Town in the late 70s. There were dozens and dozens of abandoned and boarded up old houses on Lee, Duke, Prince, etc. Those same houses now sell for 2 million without ever even going on the market.

The new people don’t get this. I lived in DuPont Circle in the 80’s in the basement apartment of a house that now would sell for multiple millions, and in one month, there were three murders within a block of my house. I rented a house in Old Town in the 90’s that was owned by a rich lady who bought up the houses and renovated them, just because she was on a personal mission to save the houses in the historic district. The house next to me was falling down until Habitat for Humanity took it on as a project. Even Georgetown wasn’t a place rich people lived until JFK moved in when he was a Senator.

Poor/lower middle class people have never been able to afford the most “fashionable” neighborhood in town.

I almost ended up on P Street in the early 1970s. I knew the guy who did get that house then. He and his family were there for a few months before they discovered there was a man who was *living* in the basement. Dude had keys, etc. Very different times!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband works with a woman who bought a huge row house in DuPont circle in the early 80s on 1 fed salary. They still live there now. Ask yourself - what is today’s crime / neighborhood amenity equivalent of DuPont in the 80s? They didn’t buy into today’s DuPont, they took a risk.

Another fed we know bought in Lyon Village, Arlington before there was a Metro. 2 fed salaries, but very early on. Their friends thought they were moving “to the country”. What is the equivalent today to the commute and amenities from Arlington in the early 80s? They too many risk and it worked out.

All the people who moan about not being able to buy in Arlington, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Falls Church, etc. are not recognizing that those towns were not the towns they are today. There was never a time a maid or a landscaper could afford a home in the closest neighborhoods with the best schools and amenities. If you want to live that dream, make a bet on the next place and move there before it’s built up.

Grew up in Old Town in the late 70s. There were dozens and dozens of abandoned and boarded up old houses on Lee, Duke, Prince, etc. Those same houses now sell for 2 million without ever even going on the market.

The new people don’t get this. I lived in DuPont Circle in the 80’s in the basement apartment of a house that now would sell for multiple millions, and in one month, there were three murders within a block of my house. I rented a house in Old Town in the 90’s that was owned by a rich lady who bought up the houses and renovated them, just because she was on a personal mission to save the houses in the historic district. The house next to me was falling down until Habitat for Humanity took it on as a project. Even Georgetown wasn’t a place rich people lived until JFK moved in when he was a Senator.

Poor/lower middle class people have never been able to afford the most “fashionable” neighborhood in town.

+1 My parents were early investors in Old Town and it was as bad as you say. The first house they bought in Old Town as an investment, their friends were having apoplexies about what a horrible choice it was because Old Town was a slum. And they were right, it was a slum at the time. But my parents, and others, kept buying and investing, and now it has paid off. And your point about Georgetown is very well taken. It was NOT the place to live until people like JFK began moving in. And JFK moved in because they wanted to get away from HH and they could get a fairly large home that was close enough to work for him. It wasn't because the area was where the kaching lived.