Does the school pyramid really make a difference in the long run?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real world bears very little resemblance to the population of most “preferred“ pyramids in northern Virginia. My personal opinion is that kids benefit more from exposure to those who are different (both racially/ethnically and socio-economically) than they do from exposure to those who are the same.

I would agree with this poster. My sister and I went to a not so great high school. Only 10% of the kids in my graduating class went to college. My sister and I were both smart and there was huge value in learning to work with and get along with those form different racial and socio economically backgrounds. This skill set has served both of us well in our careers.

There’s literally no one coming to DCUM with questions who wants to send their kids to a school where only 10% of the students go to college. You can find SES diversity at every high school in APS and over 90% of the schools in FCPS.

Not really. Roughly 30% of FCPS is economically disadvantaged. Please name a highly-rated school that approximates this percentage. Certainly not McLean.
Marshall probably comes closest, but even there only 17% of students are FARMs.

Chantilly also coming in at 17%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. A student at one of the worst high schools in our county got accepted to Columbia.

It's more about the student than the schools.

One actually has a better chance at ivies, et al - coming from "bad" school systems.

Suburban myth. And even if it were true, who'd want to show up at an Ivy ill-prepared compared to kids coming from Sidwell, TJ, Walt Whitman, W-L, McLean, etc.

Suburban myth. Kids admitted to ivies from FCPS are well-prepared regardless of their school of origin.

Graduated from FCPS (not TJ), went to an Ivy, was given the option to graduate in three years, turned it down to take more courses, and graduated Phi Beta Kappa.

And of the two kids from my FCPS high school who were a year ahead at the same Ivy, one graduated in three years, and the other graduated Phi Beta Kappa and went to Harvard Law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m only the parent of a 10 year old and younger kids but from what I’ve read the answer is no. Our child goes to a Title I School. The school has a GT magnet program, arts and music and media, newly renovated, diverse, safe decent testing scores for all races. We wanted our kids to be comfortable with all kinds of people and also to go to a neighborhood school. I have never regretted our choice. DH and I are both employed and went to college and have friends in the school district who are both more and less educated than we are.

I don’t have a link but I think parent education level and resources are the biggest predictors of a child’s level of academic achievement.

Have you really met people uncomfortable to work or interact with people of different socioeconomic backgrounds? How is this a thing that is fixed by going to a struggling high school? OP, as a college age engineer do you regularly hang out with electricians or plumbers that aren’t your neighbors?

Holy shit, yes. I have. They don't think of themselves this way but they are the people who don't know what code-switching means, or that huge swaths of people do it. There are some very good-hearted but clueless people out there and they don't even see their blinders bc everyone in their family and circle of friends are basically the same- college, white collar, etc.

It sounds more like you are uncomfortable with their lack of ‘wokeness’

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not really. A student at one of the worst high schools in our county got accepted to Columbia.

It's more about the student than the schools.

One actually has a better chance at ivies, et al - coming from "bad" school systems.

Suburban myth. And even if it were true, who'd want to show up at an Ivy ill-prepared compared to kids coming from Sidwell, TJ, Walt Whitman, W-L, McLean, etc.

Suburban myth. Kids admitted to ivies from FCPS are well-prepared regardless of their school of origin.

Graduated from FCPS (not TJ), went to an Ivy, was given the option to graduate in three years, turned it down to take more courses, and graduated Phi Beta Kappa.

FCPS like Marshall or FCPS Falls Church? No one is saying TJ is a hill to die on.

[Anonymous]

If you look for breakpoints, there are six tiers in FCPS in terms of student economics/poverty.

FCPS FARMS - 2019-20

Tier 6: Majority FARMS - schools that will be largely focused on helping the ESOL/FARMS kids develop the academic skills needed to graduate

Justice 63.3%
Annandale 60.7%
Mount Vernon 58.3%
Falls Church 55.5%
Lee 55.2%

Tier 5: High FARMS - above or close to the 40% poverty threshold that FCPS once identified as an impediment to overall student success

Herndon 44.9%
West Potomac 42.3%
Edison 38.1%

Tier 4: Moderate FARMS - schools just below the county average and among the most diverse in FCPS

Hayfield 29.9%
Centreville 28.7%
South Lakes 28.5%
Westfield 28.4%
Fairfax 24.3%

Tier 3: Low-FARMS - well below the county average and generally known for their strong academic performance

South County 20.7%
Marshall 20.1%
Chantilly 18.8%
Lake Braddock 15.3%
West Springfield 15.0%

Tier 2: Very Low-FARMS - schools primarily known for their academic success and affluent student bodies, but with some economic diversity

Woodson 11.4%
Robinson 10.8%
Oakton 10.9%
Madison 9.8%
McLean 9.0%

Tier 1: No FARMS - schools primarily known for their academic success and affluent student bodies, and where students most often are viewed as in a "bubble"

Langley 2.1%
TJ 1.8%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real world bears very little resemblance to the population of most “preferred“ pyramids in northern Virginia. My personal opinion is that kids benefit more from exposure to those who are different (both racially/ethnically and socio-economically) than they do from exposure to those who are the same.

I would agree with this poster. My sister and I went to a not so great high school. Only 10% of the kids in my graduating class went to college. My sister and I were both smart and there was huge value in learning to work with and get along with those form different racial and socio economically backgrounds. This skill set has served both of us well in our careers.

There’s literally no one coming to DCUM with questions who wants to send their kids to a school where only 10% of the students go to college. You can find SES diversity at every high school in APS and over 90% of the schools in FCPS.

Not really. Roughly 30% of FCPS is economically disadvantaged. Please name a highly-rated school that approximates this percentage. Certainly not McLean.
Marshall probably comes closest, but even there only 17% of students are FARMs.

Chantilly also coming in at 17%.

It’s certainly not a favorite of the DCUM crowd, but Hayfield has a FARMs rate of 30%. Some pretty impressive college destinations too.

https://www.instagram.com/hayfield_seniors/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m only the parent of a 10 year old and younger kids but from what I’ve read the answer is no. Our child goes to a Title I School. The school has a GT magnet program, arts and music and media, newly renovated, diverse, safe decent testing scores for all races. We wanted our kids to be comfortable with all kinds of people and also to go to a neighborhood school. I have never regretted our choice. DH and I are both employed and went to college and have friends in the school district who are both more and less educated than we are.

I don’t have a link but I think parent education level and resources are the biggest predictors of a child’s level of academic achievement.

Have you really met people uncomfortable to work or interact with people of different socioeconomic backgrounds? How is this a thing that is fixed by going to a struggling high school? OP, as a college age engineer do you regularly hang out with electricians or plumbers that aren’t your neighbors?

Holy shit, yes. I have. They don't think of themselves this way but they are the people who don't know what code-switching means, or that huge swaths of people do it. There are some very good-hearted but clueless people out there and they don't even see their blinders bc everyone in their family and circle of friends are basically the same- college, white collar, etc.

It sounds more like you are uncomfortable with their lack of ‘wokeness’[/quote
]
Nah. You are adding that because then it makes it easier to dismiss what I am saying. I know and love some of these people, those who assume and identify as middle class even though they were raised UMC. I have friends who are good people but just don't realize what it's like to be related to or be friends with folks who are kind of uneducated about the world around them, or not as sophisticated. At the same time I have family that I love dearly that I struggle with greatly bc they have this ridiculous boot strap narrative in their head and feel like they have no privlege at all etc . Neither really fit the definition of woke, LOL. I've seen both be wary and uncomfortable around the idea of the other (my mom even told me not to date or marry someone from significant money bc our world's are too different and this was the 90sand 00s!) .

Being more aware of the spectrum is a good thing, being in proximity is even better. See above, I didn't inherit that same wariness as my mom bc I had much more exposure to wealthy folks than she did. I also don't assume all military or blue collar white folks are Trumpeters who love to fan flames of otherness and "take our country back" stuff bc I come from that world.

[Anonymous]

PP, I think the other PP was reacting to your comment that "they are the people who don't know what code-switching means."

There are plenty of people who instinctively know how to get along with people of different backgrounds without slapping the label "code-switching" on their own behavior.

Your comment made it sound like you were faulting them for not having taken the same sociology classes or read the same articles as you did. It's somewhat ironic that you'd write in a somewhat tone-deaf manner about the subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I think the other PP was reacting to your comment that "they are the people who don't know what code-switching means."

There are plenty of people who instinctively know how to get along with people of different backgrounds without slapping the label "code-switching" on their own behavior.

Your comment made it sound like you were faulting them for not having taken the same sociology classes or read the same articles as you did. It's somewhat ironic that you'd write in a somewhat tone-deaf manner about the subject.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks who code switch who don't know that term necessarily. Probably lots of older generation folks haven't heard it but live it, if that makes sense. I guess I meant more the behavior, than the name for it. They don't know what it means to have to do it or that people are even doing it around them because they are able to, and have been able to present just the one version of themselves. FWIW I never took a sociology class

But that's fair that PP might have read that as tone deaf, its hard to write all the thoughts in a way that is concise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly asking - Does the school pyramid really make a difference in the long run? I grew up in a small city in upstate NY and there was no moving around to a better school district. I got into a great engineering school and have done fine in life. But now, as my family is looking to move from a condo to SFH in NOVA with 2 kids, I'm feeling like I'm missing something. I'm feeling like the competition and school hunting that I see my peers doing when singling out a SFH is too much. My husband I are very engineering and math focused and see our children headed in that direction as well. Do I really need to be in the top school district, 7's and above on great schools?? Top 20 in the state? Will it make a difference in school experience or getting into college depending on what HS you went to? Any hidden gem schools that aren't rated great on GS but are, in fact, great?

For perspective, we are looking for a SFH with decent sized yard and 2000+ sq for $950k or less. Arlington, Falls Church, McLean, Vienna, Alexandria, Annandale, or closer in Fairfax

Jesus. Take a deep breath, OP. Your kids will be FINE at any school which you can buy into at that price point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly asking - Does the school pyramid really make a difference in the long run? I grew up in a small city in upstate NY and there was no moving around to a better school district. I got into a great engineering school and have done fine in life. But now, as my family is looking to move from a condo to SFH in NOVA with 2 kids, I'm feeling like I'm missing something. I'm feeling like the competition and school hunting that I see my peers doing when singling out a SFH is too much. My husband I are very engineering and math focused and see our children headed in that direction as well. Do I really need to be in the top school district, 7's and above on great schools?? Top 20 in the state? Will it make a difference in school experience or getting into college depending on what HS you went to? Any hidden gem schools that aren't rated great on GS but are, in fact, great?

For perspective, we are looking for a SFH with decent sized yard and 2000+ sq for $950k or less. Arlington, Falls Church, McLean, Vienna, Alexandria, Annandale, or closer in Fairfax

Yes.

Equity and the like is BS. Get your kid into a school with highly motivated peers and a rigorous educational standards. Supplement like crazy. As you well know as an engineer, the engineering profession is highly meritocratic. Either you can do the work or you cant, because if you can't people die from your designs.

[Anonymous]

I used to love our title 1 Elementary but when my kid switched to a 10/10 GS school it was eye opening.
The biggest difference was that he found more and closer friends (at the old school kids were into sports and not that many nerds) and actually started getting invites to bd parties (there weren’t any at The old school)
More afterschool activities
More field trips
Faster paced and more thorough instruction
Less accent on perfect behavior

[Anonymous]

You aren’t in Kansas (or upstate NY) anymore. In the early years you actually can do it. (Parents are main influence). Middle school and high school though you are rolling the dice. What makes these academic school better are the kids - plain and simple. The teaching is actually WORSE because of seniority of teachers. (The lazy ones want to teach bright). Also, if your kids have a learning disability - let’s say dyslexia if they excel at math - no public school is prepared for that. But you probably would have seen some signs by now. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to love our title 1 Elementary but when my kid switched to a 10/10 GS school it was eye opening.
The biggest difference was that he found more and closer friends (at the old school kids were into sports and not that many nerds) and actually started getting invites to bd parties (there weren’t any at The old school)
More afterschool activities
More field trips
Faster paced and more thorough instruction
Less accent on perfect behavior

Now let's think about the kids who are just like your son, but who are stuck at your old elementary school because they do not have the resources to move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to love our title 1 Elementary but when my kid switched to a 10/10 GS school it was eye opening.
The biggest difference was that he found more and closer friends (at the old school kids were into sports and not that many nerds) and actually started getting invites to bd parties (there weren’t any at The old school)
More afterschool activities
More field trips
Faster paced and more thorough instruction
Less accent on perfect behavior

This. This going to sound kinda mean but at my kid’s old school, which was really poor, (in a different state, we are in fcps now) had the things that UMC/MC kids do for fun in that area. None of them had lake houses, pools, beach houses, etc. The kids couldn’t really afford to go the movies often, go out to eat, or go to the trampoline park. For my oldest who was in high school, the differences were astounding. The kids worked constantly at their jobs year-round, and thus were barely around to socialize outside of school. On sports teams (there was no lacrosse, field hockey, volleyball, water polo) there was the same issue. Kids constantly asking to leave practice really because they had work. Some sports really struggled. One year there were 4 kids on the swim team (and there would’ve been less if our school didn’t have a pool onsite). There were 3 kids on the golf team. Very little homework assigned because kids would protest. You could bring in tissue boxes or school supplies for monthly extra credit. At the middle school level, the kids did 2 class field trips total in three years; that was it (an amusement park trip which tons of kids couldn’t afford to go on + a local pro orchestra). Other than that, zilch.