Does the school pyramid really make a difference in the long run?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around here it's tough because if you put your kid in a really good pyramid, they face incredible competition when it comes to college applications. So I'm not sure there is a right answer.

In terms of resale value, generally if you are buying in a lower pyramid and selling in a lower pyramid, yes, you'll get less for your house on resale but you'll also pay less. The trick there is to not buy in a pyramid that is going to get worse (or perceived) as worse during the time you hold it. (Think about the folks who were fighting being rezoned from Abingdon to Drew because they knew Drew was perceived as a lesser school.)

I've never understood that as a reason to avoid a good pyramid. There are many good colleges and universities, and what matters the most is how well prepared (in terms of subject-matter knowledge and study skills) the student is at the college they attend. The best pyramids give kids a leg up in both respects: they will have studied with a stronger peer group and they will have been surrounded during some of their most important formative years by other students who take academics seriously.

At least this is my take-away from having had kids in two FCPS pyramids. In the higher ranked pyramid, the courses (even if the same in name) were more challenging and the teachers had higher expectations. And the peer group challenged each other more to excel without, in our observation, spilling into cut-throat competitiveness.

I think these threads turn negative when they come across as if posters are suggesting that others are just flat-out screwed if they can only afford to buy in a small handful of pyramids. But it's very clear that the market assigns higher value to higher ranked pyramids, other things being equal, and there are reasons for that.

There is no evidence that students from any FCPS school enter college unprepared. All schools in Fairfax County offer differentiation, and good students at any school will have no problem finding a cohort of similarly intelligent and motivated peers. College choices are far more likely to impact a student’s job prospects/earning power than the high school they attend within a given NoVA district, and this is where students from schools like Justice will have a leg up.

This is PP. We will have to agree to disagree. I've been in different pyramids and seen a difference. And I did not say students from FCPS enter college unprepared, but rather that the environment at some schools is better preparation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real world bears very little resemblance to the population of most “preferred“ pyramids in northern Virginia. My personal opinion is that kids benefit more from exposure to those who are different (both racially/ethnically and socio-economically) than they do from exposure to those who are the same.

All the high schools have racial and ethnic diversity. It is hard to get economic diversity - as even in the poorer schools, the well off are sequestered together in the higher end neighborhoods. Also, all but one HS in FCPS have double digit or near double digit Free and Reduced Lunch students. (not counting TJ)

What benefit is there in economic diversity? No one has yet provided a clear answer. We live in a world that is becoming more and more stratified with every passing day.

How is this even a question? You honestly see no future benefit in fostering relationships that cross the socio-economic divide? Empathy for those who come from less fortunate circumstances? Wouldn’t this be even more important in a world that is increasingly stratified?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The real world bears very little resemblance to the population of most “preferred“ pyramids in northern Virginia. My personal opinion is that kids benefit more from exposure to those who are different (both racially/ethnically and socio-economically) than they do from exposure to those who are the same.

All the high schools have racial and ethnic diversity. It is hard to get economic diversity - as even in the poorer schools, the well off are sequestered together in the higher end neighborhoods. Also, all but one HS in FCPS have double digit or near double digit Free and Reduced Lunch students. (not counting TJ)

What benefit is there in economic diversity? No one has yet provided a clear answer. We live in a world that is becoming more and more stratified with every passing day.

How is this even a question? You honestly see no future benefit in fostering relationships that cross the socio-economic divide? Empathy for those who come from less fortunate circumstances? Wouldn’t this be even more important in a world that is increasingly stratified?

Despite lots of people on this site talking a mean game about equity and diversity, anyone with the ability avoids the poorer schools. Nobody is seeking out economic diversity. Those schools are regularly labeled as bad or low quality. That is not necessarily the case - those schools just have students who are starting from a very different (disadvantaged) place. For example, when Springfield is mentioned, notice how almost every poster on this site will be very careful to clearly state West Springfield.

This site reeks of hypocrisy and do as I say, not as I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around here it's tough because if you put your kid in a really good pyramid, they face incredible competition when it comes to college applications. So I'm not sure there is a right answer.

In terms of resale value, generally if you are buying in a lower pyramid and selling in a lower pyramid, yes, you'll get less for your house on resale but you'll also pay less. The trick there is to not buy in a pyramid that is going to get worse (or perceived) as worse during the time you hold it. (Think about the folks who were fighting being rezoned from Abingdon to Drew because they knew Drew was perceived as a lesser school.)

I've never understood that as a reason to avoid a good pyramid. There are many good colleges and universities, and what matters the most is how well prepared (in terms of subject-matter knowledge and study skills) the student is at the college they attend. The best pyramids give kids a leg up in both respects: they will have studied with a stronger peer group and they will have been surrounded during some of their most important formative years by other students who take academics seriously.

At least this is my take-away from having had kids in two FCPS pyramids. In the higher ranked pyramid, the courses (even if the same in name) were more challenging and the teachers had higher expectations. And the peer group challenged each other more to excel without, in our observation, spilling into cut-throat competitiveness.

I think these threads turn negative when they come across as if posters are suggesting that others are just flat-out screwed if they can only afford to buy in a small handful of pyramids. But it's very clear that the market assigns higher value to higher ranked pyramids, other things being equal, and there are reasons for that.

There is no evidence that students from any FCPS school enter college unprepared. All schools in Fairfax County offer differentiation, and good students at any school will have no problem finding a cohort of similarly intelligent and motivated peers. College choices are far more likely to impact a student’s job prospects/earning power than the high school they attend within a given NoVA district, and this is where students from schools like Justice will have a leg up.

Gee if this is true, why aren’t hordes of justice students taking advantage of it??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are the top pyramids besides Mclean and Langley though? Not everyone can afford that. And what about schools with social economic diversity like Marshall?

I went to Marshall. Excellent school and its diversity is a huge strength. Very warm and inclusive school with many highly-motivated students. I had a great experience there and felt especially well-prepared for college through the IB diploma program.

We are in the Chantilly pyramid now and have heard only positive things (although apparently Chantilly HS is very large and overcrowded).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around here it's tough because if you put your kid in a really good pyramid, they face incredible competition when it comes to college applications. So I'm not sure there is a right answer.

In terms of resale value, generally if you are buying in a lower pyramid and selling in a lower pyramid, yes, you'll get less for your house on resale but you'll also pay less. The trick there is to not buy in a pyramid that is going to get worse (or perceived) as worse during the time you hold it. (Think about the folks who were fighting being rezoned from Abingdon to Drew because they knew Drew was perceived as a lesser school.)

I've never understood that as a reason to avoid a good pyramid. There are many good colleges and universities, and what matters the most is how well prepared (in terms of subject-matter knowledge and study skills) the student is at the college they attend. The best pyramids give kids a leg up in both respects: they will have studied with a stronger peer group and they will have been surrounded during some of their most important formative years by other students who take academics seriously.

At least this is my take-away from having had kids in two FCPS pyramids. In the higher ranked pyramid, the courses (even if the same in name) were more challenging and the teachers had higher expectations. And the peer group challenged each other more to excel without, in our observation, spilling into cut-throat competitiveness.

I think these threads turn negative when they come across as if posters are suggesting that others are just flat-out screwed if they can only afford to buy in a small handful of pyramids. But it's very clear that the market assigns higher value to higher ranked pyramids, other things being equal, and there are reasons for that.

+1. Strong peer group, more challenging courses, high expectations from teachers so my kid is prepared for college. I don’t need him to get a full academic scholarship like I did but it was very clear in my major who was prepared for college and who wasn’t. One of the 100 courses freshman year weeded out who could and who could not hack it.

Not all courses are the same at all schools although the label maybe the same. Not all courses are equal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are the top pyramids besides Mclean and Langley though? Not everyone can afford that. And what about schools with social economic diversity like Marshall?

I went to Marshall. Excellent school and its diversity is a huge strength. Very warm and inclusive school with many highly-motivated students. I had a great experience there and felt especially well-prepared for college through the IB diploma program.

We are in the Chantilly pyramid now and have heard only positive things (although apparently Chantilly HS is very large and overcrowded).

My niece attended and said the heavy emphasis on writing helped prepare for college.
I don’t think Langley/McLean/Oakton/Madison are the end all/be all of FCPS schools. There are strong schools in FCPS that get less press. I would avoid the lowest rated ones.

[Anonymous]

What are the lowest rates ones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:12:58 here again,

Just re-read your question in the title of this thread.

I guess my answer to "does the school pyramid really make a difference in the long run?" is:

Maybe. It depends on your kid.

Many people think of it like an insurance policy -- they buy in the best zone they can afford so that they know they've done all they can do for the kid to succeed. Whatever happens from there is on the kid.

This.

I went to a TERRIBLE high school, as did my brother (middle school). There were routine knife fights in my school, and my brother was relentlessly bullied. As recent immigrants, we didn’t have options. Nor did our parents understand that there could be options. We kept our head down, and nose in the books. My brother tested into a really good high school (he didn’t even tell the family about the test. Or the bullying), a horrible commute away, but made it work. My partial college scholarships were insufficient for me to go to private college, so I went to a local one. Then went to a top tier grad school, while working 3 jobs to make it work. We have both done well in life. My brother just made partner, and I am immensely proud of how far we have both come.

TL;DR A really good work ethic, and family support, goes a long way in life. People with options wouldn’t want to put their children through that.

Give me a break. There are no schools in Fairfax or Arlington counties with "routine knife fights".

He never said he was in FFX County. I echo these sentiments. I bought in a good pyramid because my brother was shot in HS by “wrong crowd” (difft city). He survived and we’re very lucky but violence in US schools is nothing to dismiss. I checked all the FCPS violence reports for each school before buying. Been there, done that.

[Anonymous]

I taught for several years at one of this country’s most elite universities. Many students came from top privates. The idea that students from better schools take school more seriously is a joke. They knew how to work the system and the main interest was in arguing for better grades. The kids from public were the ones who seemed genuinely interested in academics because because they did not take their being there for granted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly asking - Does the school pyramid really make a difference in the long run? I grew up in a small city in upstate NY and there was no moving around to a better school district. I got into a great engineering school and have done fine in life. But now, as my family is looking to move from a condo to SFH in NOVA with 2 kids, I'm feeling like I'm missing something. I'm feeling like the competition and school hunting that I see my peers doing when singling out a SFH is too much. My husband I are very engineering and math focused and see our children headed in that direction as well. Do I really need to be in the top school district, 7's and above on great schools?? Top 20 in the state? Will it make a difference in school experience or getting into college depending on what HS you went to? Any hidden gem schools that aren't rated great on GS but are, in fact, great?

For perspective, we are looking for a SFH with decent sized yard and 2000+ sq for $950k or less. Arlington, Falls Church, McLean, Vienna, Alexandria, Annandale, or closer in Fairfax

In general, it will be easier to graduate in the top 5-10% of your class coming from a school like Justice, which may provide a leg up in college admissions. To the extent that colleges limit the number of admits from a given high school, there may also be advantages. For example, many believe those applying from high-income schools like McLean or Langley are at a relative disadvantage getting into UVA.

I was told it is Northern Va in general. Virginia state schools can only accept so many students from Northern Va. so kids in N. Va have less of a chance getting into state schools than other areas in the state because students from N.Va perform really high in GPA, AP classes etc.

[Anonymous]

My advice: buy a better home in a “low” ranked FCPS school, and send your kids to private school.

Even the “good” FCPS pyramids are sinking into a subpar lowest common denominator form of education based on a misguided “equity” concept. We paid the premium to live in a “great” pyramid and were absolutely shocked at the low quality of the schools; the lack of academic rigor; the lack of discipline (which by the middle school years resulted in an unsafe environment); and the constant drumbeat of “woke” political projects sucking up all the time and energy of the people who were supposed to me in charge of providing a good EDUCATION to our children.

I went to public school in a lower middle class town. I got an OK education and did well after high school. The difference is that back then (80s and 90s) schools tracked kids by academic level (so that all kids were challenged, no kids were bored, and no kids were overwhelmed). FCPS doesn’t want to do that (“racism”). FCPS has also moved away from tried and true teaching tools — like textbooks.

And equally important, even in the working class public school system went to as a kid, they did not tolerate disruption and misbehavior — they kept kids in line. FCPS had handicapped teachers by no supporting the enforcement of discipline in school, for fear of “disparate discipline” statistics (“racism” again). So your 12 year old kid ends up getting confronted with a weapon in the bathroom, while the school admin wrings its hands about the skin color of the troublemaker.

In short, while I have no doubt that my kids could thrive even in a low budget school where student discipline was enforced and the focus was on academics, that is not what we found in our “great” public school pyramid in FCPS.

In retrospect, if I knew then what I know now, I would have bought a less expensive home in a “worse” school pyramid ... because FCPS is just too subpar at this point.

My kids are thriving in private school, thankfully.

Good luck with your search.