Hypocrisy about diverse schools

[Anonymous]

You all are fools.

Pull up the damn data MCPS and MoCo put out. The numbers (proficiency, graduation, test scores, matriculation, crime, marriage rates, birth rates, educational attainment) by demographic and SES speak for themselves. Don’t try to sugarcoat it, don’t try to deny it, don’t try to make excuses. To do so just makes you look like more of a fool.

Yes treat everyone as an individual and let him/her prove himself or herself. But after a ton of real data on said individual call a spade a spade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So again.. how do you suppose MCPS can force parents to test their children for LD, assuming that it's free?

You don't have a kid with a learning disability do you? I do and I have been a teacher. MCPS avoids testing at all costs and usually only does it when forced by the parent. MCPS tests are often biased which is why parents will seek out reputable outside testing at universities. Poor kids can't afford this but they seldom get tested in the first place.

Part of this is inappropriate bias as the school admin and teacher assumes that the URM kid is just a poor students due to poverty. Part of this is intentional which is even worse. A 504 or IEP means more work for the school and the schools are loath to put any more kids than they are forced to on them. Low income kids get the short end of the stick.

Even if MCPS did, how do you force a parent to do this?

I don't disagree that low income students are at a disadvantage, but MCPS does everything it can to help low income students.

BS that MCPS does everything it can to help poor students! MCPS is terrible at actually helping poor students. Its criminal how MCPS ignores special needs in poor children!

A parent does not have to do anything for a child to receive special ed or appropriate accommodations. A parent doesn't have to agree to the testing. For the parents that never respond, the school simply needs to keep a record that they sent home the notifications 504 and IEP accommodations are executed within the school.

Gosh.. then the change in the magnet admission and drawing boundaries to help spread low income students must've been done to benefit the super wealthy kids. NOT.

Your issue seems to stem from SN kids. I hate to break it to you, but most school districts don't handle SN and IEP very well. Having moved from an affluent school district (more so than the W schools), I can tell you that MCPS does a lot more than most school districts in addressing SN/IEP.

Of course parents have to agree to testing a child for SN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look here is the truth

People want a school with that doesn't have a ton of problems and has a chunk of highly motivated educated kids

and like it or not SES is a shorthand proxy for that

even if you are at a diverse school stereotypically the advanced classes are going to be predominantly white, asian, and african and more affluent

are these stereotypes yes, are they a shorthand for analyzing schools yes, are they generally true yes

One third of the parent(s) in Mont County never graduated high school in this country or another, and are on one ore more forms of welfare. They are not sitting around harping about which school out of 200 in the county their kids should go to. Only educated white, multiracial, or int’l parents are. As usual, the people the county is least concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How does a society chose who gets on the lifeboats when there are more people than spots. You exspect rich people to jeopardize their children’s spot for other people kids? Tell you what, let me know how that works out for you. People get well off specifically to provide their children with “advantages”. Advantage means a leg up on someone else, that someone else has only a few options;
1:run faster to make up the ground
2:run the race and complain about how it wasn’t fair and ask for a medal anyway
3:stand there in and complain while everyone else is running

If you change the goal line to help the kids with less, I assure you the rich will change the game.

I can remember in the 1980s when people with R after their name were still talking about a rising tide lifting all life(boats) and "growing the pie" instead of fighting over who gets a bigger piece. I guess all rhetoric like that has been abandoned now, and it's all "I've got mine, you're on your own, Jack" all the time.

You have a good point but all that 80s stuff was bullshit. You know that right? Talking point should mirror policy not the other way around. Also to be fair American poor have a very high quality of life comparatively. It’s true that American also have a very high quality of life comparatively and the gap between the two side is huge.

Compared to whom? The US has one of the highest maternal and infant death rates in the developed world, fueled mostly by catastrophically high rates among poor and working class women and babies. The US trails almost all other OECD countries in health, education, and food security, among other metrics.

No. It’s due to AMA mothers, obese diabetic mothers, addict mothers. Not whatever you are pretending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But we're not like other parts of the country. We are one county and we have poor schools, rich schools, and those in between in this one county. We've already established that schools with a high number of poor kids are not good for all students at the school; regardless of what the school does or what programs are established at that school. WHy would school vouchers be a burden to other schools as long as they don't significantly drive up the FARM rates and cause overcrowding?

School vouchers would not be a burden to other schools. They would be a burden to PEOPLE. You know how affluent people on DCUM don't want their kids going halfway across the county with school-provided transportation? Now imagine how poor people would get their kids halfway across the county without school-provided transportation.

And they don't even work in terms of the math. There are 57,000 very poor kids in MCPS. Is there room for 57,000 additional kids in the schools in Bethesda and Potomac?

The same way poor and rich private school kids and DC charter school kids get to school: parents drive, carpool, mass transit.
It works. 8am start across the board helps as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS makes the hypocrisy worse by actively trying to entice wealthier white people into schools through magnet and other programs AND not providing appropriate special education for kids with learning disabilities.

The magnet, honors and AP courses are all filled with UMC kids and a small handful of lower income kids. The UMC parents in these schools push hard to make sure that their kids get into these classes. Many are far from geniuses or even smart. They have the advantage of parents with resources and the ability to push.

Many UMC and URM kids have learning disabilities but UMC parents will force MCPS to do something. If you have insurance to pay for outside testing, enough education to understand your child's rights, and the inclination to fight you can make sure that your ADHD, dyslexic, language or math challenged child gets the intervention he or she needs in the early years. The low income kids don't have anyone fighting for them and MCPS ignores them.

I'm sure that there are many more low income kids who COULD have been qualified for those classes if their parents had advocated and pushed for them to be in the classes and had the resources to push MCPS to accommodate learning disabilities.

Uh.. no.. MCPS just changed admittance to CES and MS mangets to look at "peer cohort" such that many high achievers from the wealthier schools didn't get in.

How should MCPS determine if a low income child has a LD? How can MCPS force the parents of low income kids to get their kids tested even if the testing is free?

But wait, I thought people sent their kids to wealthier schools so that they would have a peer cohort of high achieving students. I thought the problem with diverse schools was that there won't be the high achieving cohort that exists at wealthy schools. So if there are all these superstar achievers at wealthy schools, and people are paying a fortune to live near them and not the poors, what does it matter whether their kids get into magnets?

And now they will even more since MCPS announced its new magically ces and magnet selection process based on “not having smart kids in your home school” and the goal of having more Hispanic and AA kids enrolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High performing schools have more high performing students than low performing schools. Yes, this is obvious. There are some high performing and many more average performing students in low performing schools.

The affluent ones all segregate within the school into a different set of classes than the ones the attended by the poor students. The diversity experience goes out the window because the kids are not being friends with other kids who have a very a different lifestyle than they do. They aren't studying together or taking the same classes.

Clubs, sports, PE, electives aren't segregated. Kids who have similar interests and values will hang out with each other. I went to a diverse school and I hung out with lots of girls on the cheer squad as I was on it, and kids on the football and basketball teams. It was a diverse group of friends and most of us were middle class, but some were wealthy, and others were low income. No one gave a crap how much our parents made.

TOTALLY AGREE.

The kids are all enjoying their classmates and school as well as can be — save for puberty stresses, dating drama, sports tryout jitters, or college stress. This is the same in Wheaton, Whitman, Gaithersburg or BCC.

Only supposed adult parents on DCUM are on here projecting to be 10 or 15 year olds duking it out in a racially divided, money flying everywhere soap opera. It’s ridiculous! Most teenagers from ANY of the 20 some MCPS high schools would read this thread and not make ANY similarities to their school experience. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look here is the truth

People want a school with that doesn't have a ton of problems and has a chunk of highly motivated educated kids

and like it or not SES is a shorthand proxy for that

even if you are at a diverse school stereotypically the advanced classes are going to be predominantly white, asian, and african and more affluent

are these stereotypes yes, are they a shorthand for analyzing schools yes, are they generally true yes

One third of the parent(s) in Mont County never graduated high school in this country or another, and are on one ore more forms of welfare. They are not sitting around harping about which school out of 200 in the county their kids should go to. Only educated white, multiracial, or int’l parents are. As usual, the people the county is least concerned about.

eh.. my nonwhite neighbors think about diversity as well as academics, so do we, a multiracial family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So again.. how do you suppose MCPS can force parents to test their children for LD, assuming that it's free?

You don't have a kid with a learning disability do you? I do and I have been a teacher. MCPS avoids testing at all costs and usually only does it when forced by the parent. MCPS tests are often biased which is why parents will seek out reputable outside testing at universities. Poor kids can't afford this but they seldom get tested in the first place.

Part of this is inappropriate bias as the school admin and teacher assumes that the URM kid is just a poor students due to poverty. Part of this is intentional which is even worse. A 504 or IEP means more work for the school and the schools are loath to put any more kids than they are forced to on them. Low income kids get the short end of the stick.

Even if MCPS did, how do you force a parent to do this?

I don't disagree that low income students are at a disadvantage, but MCPS does everything it can to help low income students.

BS that MCPS does everything it can to help poor students! MCPS is terrible at actually helping poor students. Its criminal how MCPS ignores special needs in poor children!

A parent does not have to do anything for a child to receive special ed or appropriate accommodations. A parent doesn't have to agree to the testing. For the parents that never respond, the school simply needs to keep a record that they sent home the notifications 504 and IEP accommodations are executed within the school.

This is news to me. I work in a Title 1 school. I currently have a student who we suspect has severe learning disabilities in the area of reading. Parent came to EMT and screening meetings, but was very hesitant to attend. The team unanimously agreed to move to testing. The parent said they needed a night to think it over and would come to the school to sign the papers the following day. Parent ghosted and will not return phone calls, emails or letters. Most likely the other parent who did not attend the meeting told the parent who did attend the meeting to stop getting involved with the school. Meanwhile I have a 4th grader reading on a 1st grade level, despite numerous interventions provided over a long period of time. Special ed team and admin say their hands are tied without a parent signature.

Please provide the documentation to support your statement. I would love to present it to our special ed team and admin so that this child can start to receive the support they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High performing schools have more high performing students than low performing schools. Yes, this is obvious. There are some high performing and many more average performing students in low performing schools.

The affluent ones all segregate within the school into a different set of classes than the ones the attended by the poor students. The diversity experience goes out the window because the kids are not being friends with other kids who have a very a different lifestyle than they do. They aren't studying together or taking the same classes.

Clubs, sports, PE, electives aren't segregated. Kids who have similar interests and values will hang out with each other. I went to a diverse school and I hung out with lots of girls on the cheer squad as I was on it, and kids on the football and basketball teams. It was a diverse group of friends and most of us were middle class, but some were wealthy, and others were low income. No one gave a crap how much our parents made.

TOTALLY AGREE.

The kids are all enjoying their classmates and school as well as can be — save for puberty stresses, dating drama, sports tryout jitters, or college stress. This is the same in Wheaton, Whitman, Gaithersburg or BCC.

Only supposed adult parents on DCUM are on here projecting to be 10 or 15 year olds duking it out in a racially divided, money flying everywhere soap opera. It’s ridiculous! Most teenagers from ANY of the 20 some MCPS high schools would read this thread and not make ANY similarities to their school experience. Seriously.

um this is BS lol honors and AP classes are overwhelmingly white asian and African

and other classes are hispanic and African American

just because you have a couple outliers and you are posting on DCUM lolz

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look here is the truth

People want a school with that doesn't have a ton of problems and has a chunk of highly motivated educated kids

and like it or not SES is a shorthand proxy for that

even if you are at a diverse school stereotypically the advanced classes are going to be predominantly white, asian, and african and more affluent

are these stereotypes yes, are they a shorthand for analyzing schools yes, are they generally true yes

One third of the parent(s) in Mont County never graduated high school in this country or another, and are on one ore more forms of welfare. They are not sitting around harping about which school out of 200 in the county their kids should go to. Only educated white, multiracial, or int’l parents are. As usual, the people the county is least concerned about.

eh.. my nonwhite neighbors think about diversity as well as academics, so do we, a multiracial family.

I think the deciding factor above was if you and your neighbors were high school graduates or not. Not your race or income level.

So if y’all are HS graduates, you further prove PP’s claim that you are harping about what school to send your children to (for diversity sake or academics or whatever else).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High performing schools have more high performing students than low performing schools. Yes, this is obvious. There are some high performing and many more average performing students in low performing schools.

The affluent ones all segregate within the school into a different set of classes than the ones the attended by the poor students. The diversity experience goes out the window because the kids are not being friends with other kids who have a very a different lifestyle than they do. They aren't studying together or taking the same classes.

Clubs, sports, PE, electives aren't segregated. Kids who have similar interests and values will hang out with each other. I went to a diverse school and I hung out with lots of girls on the cheer squad as I was on it, and kids on the football and basketball teams. It was a diverse group of friends and most of us were middle class, but some were wealthy, and others were low income. No one gave a crap how much our parents made.

TOTALLY AGREE.

The kids are all enjoying their classmates and school as well as can be — save for puberty stresses, dating drama, sports tryout jitters, or college stress. This is the same in Wheaton, Whitman, Gaithersburg or BCC.

Only supposed adult parents on DCUM are on here projecting to be 10 or 15 year olds duking it out in a racially divided, money flying everywhere soap opera. It’s ridiculous! Most teenagers from ANY of the 20 some MCPS high schools would read this thread and not make ANY similarities to their school experience. Seriously.

um this is BS lol honors and AP classes are overwhelmingly white asian and African

and other classes are hispanic and African American

just because you have a couple outliers and you are posting on DCUM lolz

What on earth are you talking about? You think kids today are spending any time fretting about the race of who is in their class? No, adults like you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look here is the truth

People want a school with that doesn't have a ton of problems and has a chunk of highly motivated educated kids

and like it or not SES is a shorthand proxy for that

even if you are at a diverse school stereotypically the advanced classes are going to be predominantly white, asian, and african and more affluent

are these stereotypes yes, are they a shorthand for analyzing schools yes, are they generally true yes

One third of the parent(s) in Mont County never graduated high school in this country or another, and are on one ore more forms of welfare. They are not sitting around harping about which school out of 200 in the county their kids should go to. Only educated white, multiracial, or int’l parents are. As usual, the people the county is least concerned about.

eh.. my nonwhite neighbors think about diversity as well as academics, so do we, a multiracial family.

I think the deciding factor above was if you and your neighbors were high school graduates or not. Not your race or income level.

So if y’all are HS graduates, you further prove PP’s claim that you are harping about what school to send your children to (for diversity sake or academics or whatever else).

So, unless people seeking diversity purposefully seek areas where there are a lot of parents that don't have a HS diploma, then we are being hypocrites?

Sorry. Don't buy it. People seeking true diversity look for schools that are racially diverse as well as not too rich and not too poor. Parents who care about their children's education, whether they have PhDs or only HS diplomas, or low income or high income or in between, think about the type of school they believe is best for their kids. I feel zero guilt for seeking a diverse school as well as one that has an academic peer cohort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:High performing schools have more high performing students than low performing schools. Yes, this is obvious. There are some high performing and many more average performing students in low performing schools.

The affluent ones all segregate within the school into a different set of classes than the ones the attended by the poor students. The diversity experience goes out the window because the kids are not being friends with other kids who have a very a different lifestyle than they do. They aren't studying together or taking the same classes.

Clubs, sports, PE, electives aren't segregated. Kids who have similar interests and values will hang out with each other. I went to a diverse school and I hung out with lots of girls on the cheer squad as I was on it, and kids on the football and basketball teams. It was a diverse group of friends and most of us were middle class, but some were wealthy, and others were low income. No one gave a crap how much our parents made.

TOTALLY AGREE.

The kids are all enjoying their classmates and school as well as can be — save for puberty stresses, dating drama, sports tryout jitters, or college stress. This is the same in Wheaton, Whitman, Gaithersburg or BCC.

Only supposed adult parents on DCUM are on here projecting to be 10 or 15 year olds duking it out in a racially divided, money flying everywhere soap opera. It’s ridiculous! Most teenagers from ANY of the 20 some MCPS high schools would read this thread and not make ANY similarities to their school experience. Seriously.

um this is BS lol honors and AP classes are overwhelmingly white asian and African

and other classes are hispanic and African American

just because you have a couple outliers and you are posting on DCUM lolz

What on earth are you talking about? You think kids today are spending any time fretting about the race of who is in their class? No, adults like you are.

of course kids don't care I'm just stating facts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

One third of the parent(s) in Mont County never graduated high school in this country or another, and are on one ore more forms of welfare. They are not sitting around harping about which school out of 200 in the county their kids should go to. Only educated white, multiracial, or int’l parents are. As usual, the people the county is least concerned about.

Let's look at the data.

In Montgomery County, Maryland, among people aged 25-34, 91% are high school graduates or higher. Aged 35-44, 91%. Aged 45-64, 92%. Total population aged 25 or more, 91%.

So - no, your assertion is factually incorrect.

To say nothing of "forms of welfare", whatever those are.