the Key/ASFS building switch...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swap in 2020. The rest of us can't take a whole additional year of these temper tantrums.

Seriously! I don’t even understand while aps felt the need to publish the memos that prompted this thread! Let’s just accept this and move on, I’m really sick of neighborhoods being pitted against one another. Though I guess in this case it’s different people in the same neighborhood.

oh I'm really glad they published it. It laid out a rational coherent explanation for why they are planning the swap. It had a lot of information to counter the disinformation that I'm sure they knew was coming. It provides a counter to the 'lyon village is rich and has to much sway with the staff' rhetoric we are hearing. It showed transparency. I actually can't imagine how it would be better if they hadn't published it.

It's going to be nothing but a headache for the next three years-- the whole "this keeps most of the ASFS together" line that APS is feeding everyone is such a misnomer. There are already more students currently attending ASFS than the Key building can hold after you take out the two classrooms needed to try and recreate the science lab. That doesn't include all the current Key folks who will stay at the current building (b/c they can walk/familiarity, etc.) regardless of which program is there. More importantly, the 200 Lyon Village kids who currently go to Taylor are within 1/2 mile with no major streets to cross-- APS cannot justify bussing those kids to Taylor when they can easily walk to the Key building. So what does this mean? It means that the "new" ASFS at the Key building will be nothing more than Lyon Village's neighborhood school -- and many of the fringe folks (who believe this swap was their savoir) will still be bussed to Taylor and Long Branch. And why move the "whole program" before the boundary change-- all that is going to do is royally piss off the over 1/3 ASFS population that has to move to the Key building in 2020 and then move to their new "neighborhood" school in 2021. So again, great for Lyon Village but sucky for everyone else.

Every elementary school is going to deal with some people being zoned out and others being zoned in over the next few years. You are not so special that you should be exempt. The swap reduces the number of students who will be rezoned out or in.

Absolutely agree that no one is that special that they should be exempt from the boundary process/having to move schools. However, I haven't seen any thorough analysis or support that the swap will actually reduce the number of kids that will be rezoned out or in. Yes, on paper it looks like the swap will put the school closer to 80% of the current ASFS population. But after adjustments are made to account for (i) losing class space for the science lab; (ii) adding in the Taylor Lyon Village students; (iii) adding in the current Key students who leave Immersion to stay with the building; (iv) adding in new folks who move/live in the attendance area, then (iv) subtracting out the current 20% of ASFS who are not in the Key zone, it is likely that the ASFS in 2021 will have only half, at best, of its current population or families. And the swap does nothing to address that all of Key has to move-- yes, on paper you can argue that the whole program will move together but there will be losses for those who can and do opt to stay at the Key building-- did APS even attempt to realistically figure those numbers out? And while on paper the swap may reduce the number of schools involved (i.e., the Ashlawn and Taylor units near ASFS can continue with their current boundaries when the swap occurs), that entire area is going to be subject to rezoning in 2021--- so the swap doesn't do much but give many at ASFS a false sense of security that they are keeping their school community together and getting a bigger school to grow (although wait until they figure out that the Key cafeteria is smaller so they'll have extended lunchtimes and a quarter of their classrooms will now be open!).

It seems as if APS is throwing anything out there that it thinks will appease the most and, again, on paper, the swap does this. But in reality, it will be a logistical nightmare, an expensive (taxpayer) burden, and, at the end of the day, most of the kids living in that area are all going to be rezoned anyway-- Lyon Village Taylor will go to new ASFS, Cherrydale Taylor/Ashlawn will end up at Glebe, Rosslyn/Courthouse will end up at Taylor or Long Branch, and many of the current and local Key may end up at new ASFS. So the swap doesn't really help keep "current" communities together as Dr. Murphy touted. Maybe for one year, but then come 2021, all bets are off.

So, is wasting all the time and taxpayer money on the swap worth the return? You might think this is just an ASFS/Key issue so who cares, no one should be exempt from moving but everyone in Arlington should care because we are going to PAY for this swap. And we're doing it under the guise that its the least disruptive for all those who attend or live around ASFS/Key-- which, I do not think is necessarily true and, for those who don't live in the area, seems like a slap in the face that APS is going to extraordinary lengths and spending money it doesn't have to keep the "current" ASFS community happy. As you say, none of us are that special that we should be exempt from the changes that are coming. I just don't understand why we are going to spend so many resources on moving schools just to lessen the pain of the boundary changes on a small subset of taxpayers.

It's a placeholder to keep Fleet rezoning from turning into the N Arlington show. People will keep going in circles talking about it and APS will just say they are not dealing with that right now. Immersion has to move. It is not attracting enough Spanish speakers at its current location to justify keeping the neighborhood from having a school. Now is the time to advocate for the best possible landing space if you are a Key parent. Seems like ASFS, Carlin Springs, and ATS could be on the table. Maybe somewhere else as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swap in 2020. The rest of us can't take a whole additional year of these temper tantrums.

Seriously! I don’t even understand while aps felt the need to publish the memos that prompted this thread! Let’s just accept this and move on, I’m really sick of neighborhoods being pitted against one another. Though I guess in this case it’s different people in the same neighborhood.

oh I'm really glad they published it. It laid out a rational coherent explanation for why they are planning the swap. It had a lot of information to counter the disinformation that I'm sure they knew was coming. It provides a counter to the 'lyon village is rich and has to much sway with the staff' rhetoric we are hearing. It showed transparency. I actually can't imagine how it would be better if they hadn't published it.

It's going to be nothing but a headache for the next three years-- the whole "this keeps most of the ASFS together" line that APS is feeding everyone is such a misnomer. There are already more students currently attending ASFS than the Key building can hold after you take out the two classrooms needed to try and recreate the science lab. That doesn't include all the current Key folks who will stay at the current building (b/c they can walk/familiarity, etc.) regardless of which program is there. More importantly, the 200 Lyon Village kids who currently go to Taylor are within 1/2 mile with no major streets to cross-- APS cannot justify bussing those kids to Taylor when they can easily walk to the Key building. So what does this mean? It means that the "new" ASFS at the Key building will be nothing more than Lyon Village's neighborhood school -- and many of the fringe folks (who believe this swap was their savoir) will still be bussed to Taylor and Long Branch. And why move the "whole program" before the boundary change-- all that is going to do is royally piss off the over 1/3 ASFS population that has to move to the Key building in 2020 and then move to their new "neighborhood" school in 2021. So again, great for Lyon Village but sucky for everyone else.

Every elementary school is going to deal with some people being zoned out and others being zoned in over the next few years. You are not so special that you should be exempt. The swap reduces the number of students who will be rezoned out or in.

Actually, no. There are several elementary schools who will not have new boundaries drawn and several others who are being boundaried out to attend a brand new school. This is a very different situation that what you describe. But hey, who cares, Lyon Village is taken care of and that's all that matters. We all know that.

Which neighborhood elementary schools are exempt from both the 2018 and 2020 boundary redrawings?

It depends on which week you ask APS. The schizophrenic plans change too often to even bother to keep track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swap in 2020. The rest of us can't take a whole additional year of these temper tantrums.

Seriously! I don’t even understand while aps felt the need to publish the memos that prompted this thread! Let’s just accept this and move on, I’m really sick of neighborhoods being pitted against one another. Though I guess in this case it’s different people in the same neighborhood.

oh I'm really glad they published it. It laid out a rational coherent explanation for why they are planning the swap. It had a lot of information to counter the disinformation that I'm sure they knew was coming. It provides a counter to the 'lyon village is rich and has to much sway with the staff' rhetoric we are hearing. It showed transparency. I actually can't imagine how it would be better if they hadn't published it.

It's going to be nothing but a headache for the next three years-- the whole "this keeps most of the ASFS together" line that APS is feeding everyone is such a misnomer. There are already more students currently attending ASFS than the Key building can hold after you take out the two classrooms needed to try and recreate the science lab. That doesn't include all the current Key folks who will stay at the current building (b/c they can walk/familiarity, etc.) regardless of which program is there. More importantly, the 200 Lyon Village kids who currently go to Taylor are within 1/2 mile with no major streets to cross-- APS cannot justify bussing those kids to Taylor when they can easily walk to the Key building. So what does this mean? It means that the "new" ASFS at the Key building will be nothing more than Lyon Village's neighborhood school -- and many of the fringe folks (who believe this swap was their savoir) will still be bussed to Taylor and Long Branch. And why move the "whole program" before the boundary change-- all that is going to do is royally piss off the over 1/3 ASFS population that has to move to the Key building in 2020 and then move to their new "neighborhood" school in 2021. So again, great for Lyon Village but sucky for everyone else.

Every elementary school is going to deal with some people being zoned out and others being zoned in over the next few years. You are not so special that you should be exempt. The swap reduces the number of students who will be rezoned out or in.

Actually, no. There are several elementary schools who will not have new boundaries drawn and several others who are being boundaried out to attend a brand new school. This is a very different situation that what you describe. But hey, who cares, Lyon Village is taken care of and that's all that matters. We all know that.

Which neighborhood elementary schools are exempt from both the 2018 and 2020 boundary redrawings?

It depends on which week you ask APS. The schizophrenic plans change too often to even bother to keep track.

In response to a comment that "Every elementary school is going to deal with some people being zoned out and others being zoned in over the next few years," the previous post stated, "There are several elementary schools who will not have new boundaries drawn." I would like to know which schools that poster was referring to, since I assume they are not just making shit up to justify their crazy.

If you can't identify any schools fitting that criteria, how about you give me an example from the past year where APS has said that a particular neighborhood elementary school would be exempt from any boundary changes in connection with the opening of Fleet and/or Reed. It's okay if APS has since retracted that statement, I just want to hear some examples of when it was said at some point. I assume you can think of some, and aren't also making shit up to justify your crazy.

[Anonymous]

It's a placeholder to keep Fleet rezoning from turning into the N Arlington show. People will keep going in circles talking about it and APS will just say they are not dealing with that right now. Immersion has to move. It is not attracting enough Spanish speakers at its current location to justify keeping the neighborhood from having a school. Now is the time to advocate for the best possible landing space if you are a Key parent. Seems like ASFS, Carlin Springs, and ATS could be on the table. Maybe somewhere else as well?

The problem with either ATS or Carlin Springs is that they are quite small compared to Key (75 few spots at CS, and almost 200 hundred few spots at ATS. That's really going to hammer at the Immersion program (figures come from this table: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's a placeholder to keep Fleet rezoning from turning into the N Arlington show. People will keep going in circles talking about it and APS will just say they are not dealing with that right now. Immersion has to move. It is not attracting enough Spanish speakers at its current location to justify keeping the neighborhood from having a school. Now is the time to advocate for the best possible landing space if you are a Key parent. Seems like ASFS, Carlin Springs, and ATS could be on the table. Maybe somewhere else as well?

The problem with either ATS or Carlin Springs is that they are quite small compared to Key (75 few spots at CS, and almost 200 hundred few spots at ATS. That's really going to hammer at the Immersion program (figures come from this table: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf)

So what's wrong with moving it to Carlin Springs closer to more native spanish speaking residents? they have lots of room to grow to make up this difference - the site can accommodate 12 more classrooms with relocatables. Doesn't this help Key grow it's program and keep it near a native spanish speaking community?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a placeholder to keep Fleet rezoning from turning into the N Arlington show. People will keep going in circles talking about it and APS will just say they are not dealing with that right now. Immersion has to move. It is not attracting enough Spanish speakers at its current location to justify keeping the neighborhood from having a school. Now is the time to advocate for the best possible landing space if you are a Key parent. Seems like ASFS, Carlin Springs, and ATS could be on the table. Maybe somewhere else as well?

The problem with either ATS or Carlin Springs is that they are quite small compared to Key (75 few spots at CS, and almost 200 hundred few spots at ATS. That's really going to hammer at the Immersion program (figures come from this table: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf)

So what's wrong with moving it to Carlin Springs closer to more native spanish speaking residents? they have lots of room to grow to make up this difference - the site can accommodate 12 more classrooms with relocatables. Doesn't this help Key grow it's program and keep it near a native spanish speaking community?

There is certainly a lot of room to add relocatables at CS (you might need to add a relocatable gym and/or cafeteria) to increase capacity to meet the program's current size. That has its own costs, of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a placeholder to keep Fleet rezoning from turning into the N Arlington show. People will keep going in circles talking about it and APS will just say they are not dealing with that right now. Immersion has to move. It is not attracting enough Spanish speakers at its current location to justify keeping the neighborhood from having a school. Now is the time to advocate for the best possible landing space if you are a Key parent. Seems like ASFS, Carlin Springs, and ATS could be on the table. Maybe somewhere else as well?

The problem with either ATS or Carlin Springs is that they are quite small compared to Key (75 few spots at CS, and almost 200 hundred few spots at ATS. That's really going to hammer at the Immersion program (figures come from this table: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf)

So what's wrong with moving it to Carlin Springs closer to more native spanish speaking residents? they have lots of room to grow to make up this difference - the site can accommodate 12 more classrooms with relocatables. Doesn't this help Key grow it's program and keep it near a native spanish speaking community?

You’re like a broken record, incorrectlt conflating immersion with ESL, in effect.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the pp that said this is all a placeholder so APS can deal with S. Arlington AND it was a message to Key Immersion that it is moving. So instead of fighting to keep it's current building, Key immersion should be fighting to figure out where it has a good chance to survive and grow, 'cause ASF isn't it. If the program moves there, it will be dead in a few years (and that may the one thing that everyone on this thread can agree with).

[Anonymous]

It's kind of embarrassing to have the staff say they needed to make this announcement now because one part of the county is so unable to control their tantrums that it interferes with their ability to do anything for other parts of the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's a placeholder to keep Fleet rezoning from turning into the N Arlington show. People will keep going in circles talking about it and APS will just say they are not dealing with that right now. Immersion has to move. It is not attracting enough Spanish speakers at its current location to justify keeping the neighborhood from having a school. Now is the time to advocate for the best possible landing space if you are a Key parent. Seems like ASFS, Carlin Springs, and ATS could be on the table. Maybe somewhere else as well?

The problem with either ATS or Carlin Springs is that they are quite small compared to Key (75 few spots at CS, and almost 200 hundred few spots at ATS. That's really going to hammer at the Immersion program (figures come from this table: https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Capacity_Utilization_FallProjections17-26_Final_Web.pdf)

So what's wrong with moving it to Carlin Springs closer to more native spanish speaking residents? they have lots of room to grow to make up this difference - the site can accommodate 12 more classrooms with relocatables. Doesn't this help Key grow it's program and keep it near a native spanish speaking community?

You’re like a broken record, incorrectlt conflating immersion with ESL, in effect.

huh? so Carlin Springs is not a good site? I'm confused. Where is a good location for it then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem for immersion is that the swap, as currently envisioned/planned, means that the immersion program will have to shrink. There are going to be a lot of kids who are interested in immersion who won't be able to get a spot. That may not be as important to some, but its a real cost to the school system as a whole.

They aren’t attracting enough native spanish speakers to meet the 50/50 ratio; most of the kids clamoring for a spot at Key immersion are coming from So Arlington, and are white MC families escaping from their neighborhood school not actively seeking Immersion in truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swap in 2020. The rest of us can't take a whole additional year of these temper tantrums.

Seriously! I don’t even understand while aps felt the need to publish the memos that prompted this thread! Let’s just accept this and move on, I’m really sick of neighborhoods being pitted against one another. Though I guess in this case it’s different people in the same neighborhood.

oh I'm really glad they published it. It laid out a rational coherent explanation for why they are planning the swap. It had a lot of information to counter the disinformation that I'm sure they knew was coming. It provides a counter to the 'lyon village is rich and has to much sway with the staff' rhetoric we are hearing. It showed transparency. I actually can't imagine how it would be better if they hadn't published it.

It's going to be nothing but a headache for the next three years-- the whole "this keeps most of the ASFS together" line that APS is feeding everyone is such a misnomer. There are already more students currently attending ASFS than the Key building can hold after you take out the two classrooms needed to try and recreate the science lab. That doesn't include all the current Key folks who will stay at the current building (b/c they can walk/familiarity, etc.) regardless of which program is there. More importantly, the 200 Lyon Village kids who currently go to Taylor are within 1/2 mile with no major streets to cross-- APS cannot justify bussing those kids to Taylor when they can easily walk to the Key building. So what does this mean? It means that the "new" ASFS at the Key building will be nothing more than Lyon Village's neighborhood school -- and many of the fringe folks (who believe this swap was their savoir) will still be bussed to Taylor and Long Branch. And why move the "whole program" before the boundary change-- all that is going to do is royally piss off the over 1/3 ASFS population that has to move to the Key building in 2020 and then move to their new "neighborhood" school in 2021. So again, great for Lyon Village but sucky for everyone else.

Is there a law requiring they go to the nearest walkable school? If Key is the closest school to Rosslyn, and it essentially filled by all the PUs Eastof Taylor LV, why do they have to move the Taylor PUs to Key, with the result of busing lower income Rosslyn students on the longest bus ride in the county? Why are you assuming they are doing that, when soon their will be huge excess capacity in the NW of the county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem for immersion is that the swap, as currently envisioned/planned, means that the immersion program will have to shrink. There are going to be a lot of kids who are interested in immersion who won't be able to get a spot. That may not be as important to some, but its a real cost to the school system as a whole.

They aren’t attracting enough native spanish speakers to meet the 50/50 ratio; most of the kids clamoring for a spot at Key immersion are coming from So Arlington, and are white MC families escaping from their neighborhood school not actively seeking Immersion in truth.

You are correct, int hat that its possible that in a different location there will be less demand for immersion. But its hard to know that until its too late.

Its still hard for me to understand why its so important that the current Key building be converted to a neighborhood school. Its housed Key for over 25 years. Every person who lives nearby has known that its not a standard neighborhood school (though until recently close-by neighbors could get into Key by right).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Swap in 2020. The rest of us can't take a whole additional year of these temper tantrums.

Seriously! I don’t even understand while aps felt the need to publish the memos that prompted this thread! Let’s just accept this and move on, I’m really sick of neighborhoods being pitted against one another. Though I guess in this case it’s different people in the same neighborhood.

oh I'm really glad they published it. It laid out a rational coherent explanation for why they are planning the swap. It had a lot of information to counter the disinformation that I'm sure they knew was coming. It provides a counter to the 'lyon village is rich and has to much sway with the staff' rhetoric we are hearing. It showed transparency. I actually can't imagine how it would be better if they hadn't published it.

It's going to be nothing but a headache for the next three years-- the whole "this keeps most of the ASFS together" line that APS is feeding everyone is such a misnomer. There are already more students currently attending ASFS than the Key building can hold after you take out the two classrooms needed to try and recreate the science lab. That doesn't include all the current Key folks who will stay at the current building (b/c they can walk/familiarity, etc.) regardless of which program is there. More importantly, the 200 Lyon Village kids who currently go to Taylor are within 1/2 mile with no major streets to cross-- APS cannot justify bussing those kids to Taylor when they can easily walk to the Key building. So what does this mean? It means that the "new" ASFS at the Key building will be nothing more than Lyon Village's neighborhood school -- and many of the fringe folks (who believe this swap was their savoir) will still be bussed to Taylor and Long Branch. And why move the "whole program" before the boundary change-- all that is going to do is royally piss off the over 1/3 ASFS population that has to move to the Key building in 2020 and then move to their new "neighborhood" school in 2021. So again, great for Lyon Village but sucky for everyone else.

Is there a law requiring they go to the nearest walkable school? If Key is the closest school to Rosslyn, and it essentially filled by all the PUs Eastof Taylor LV, why do they have to move the Taylor PUs to Key, with the result of busing lower income Rosslyn students on the longest bus ride in the county? Why are you assuming they are doing that, when soon their will be huge excess capacity in the NW of the county?

Currently there are several PUs within Nottingham walk zone that bus across Sycamore to attend tuckahoe. Not very different than current Taylor Lyon Village PUs remaining at Taylor

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem for immersion is that the swap, as currently envisioned/planned, means that the immersion program will have to shrink. There are going to be a lot of kids who are interested in immersion who won't be able to get a spot. That may not be as important to some, but its a real cost to the school system as a whole.

They aren’t attracting enough native spanish speakers to meet the 50/50 ratio; most of the kids clamoring for a spot at Key immersion are coming from So Arlington, and are white MC families escaping from their neighborhood school not actively seeking Immersion in truth.

You are correct, int hat that its possible that in a different location there will be less demand for immersion. But its hard to know that until its too late.

Its still hard for me to understand why its so important that the current Key building be converted to a neighborhood school. Its housed Key for over 25 years. Every person who lives nearby has known that its not a standard neighborhood school (though until recently close-by neighbors could get into Key by right).

It has nothing to do with Key. It has to do with ASFS becoming a neighborhood school, but being located outside it’s neighborhood.

Honestly not sure why that is an issue, I know FCC has a school on land it rents from fairfax, so it’s not even in their school district.