NYT opinion article "Did I choose the wrong college "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Does she feel that Cornell was not worth it? That the financial stress was too much for her parents? Or did she realize that where you go to college does not determine your life outcome? In that case, no shit Sherlock.

I feel like the essay was half finished.

I agree. She clearly contemplated the issues, but I don't think she really reached a conclusion.

I'm also someone who was first generation immigrant at Cornell. The difference is there was an inheritance that paid for my education. Without it, I would have gone to SUNY Binghamton like all my other smart classmates. But that was many years ago before student loans were so widely available. I think you can have a good life regardless of where you go to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:>wants to be southern tacky rich
>studies English and Gender Studies
>pursues academia

Wow, I'm surprised her plan didn't work out! Could be worse, she could have gone to UF and instead of writing for the Times and being tenured at Nebraska she'd be a dirt poor adjunct at Miami-Dade community college.

She would be teaching college students by day and her nights and weekends would be spent playing on the beach, sailing and sipping margaritas.

A community college instructor makes maybe $40k a year.

If she's married to another instructor, they're pulling in 80K year. That is a doable income in Florida. In fact, a single woman earning 40K can probably live within reason in many parts of Florida.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Does she feel that Cornell was not worth it? That the financial stress was too much for her parents? Or did she realize that where you go to college does not determine your life outcome? In that case, no shit Sherlock.

I feel like the essay was half finished.

I agree. She clearly contemplated the issues, but I don't think she really reached a conclusion.

I'm also someone who was first generation immigrant at Cornell. The difference is there was an inheritance that paid for my education. Without it, I would have gone to SUNY Binghamton like all my other smart classmates. But that was many years ago before student loans were so widely available. I think you can have a good life regardless of where you go to school.

Interesting. Do you feel as though you benefited from attending Cornell? Do you think that your experience was any different than what your friends experienced at SUNY?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:>wants to be southern tacky rich
>studies English and Gender Studies
>pursues academia

Wow, I'm surprised her plan didn't work out! Could be worse, she could have gone to UF and instead of writing for the Times and being tenured at Nebraska she'd be a dirt poor adjunct at Miami-Dade community college.

She would be teaching college students by day and her nights and weekends would be spent playing on the beach, sailing and sipping margaritas.

A community college instructor makes maybe $40k a year.

With her experience, could be higher. And there is no publish or perish pressure in community college. She didn't have to write The NY Times Op piece. And she could be teaching in Miami, so this is about her choice. She chose the more prestigious position in the middle of the corn field in Nebraska.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:>wants to be southern tacky rich
>studies English and Gender Studies
>pursues academia

Wow, I'm surprised her plan didn't work out! Could be worse, she could have gone to UF and instead of writing for the Times and being tenured at Nebraska she'd be a dirt poor adjunct at Miami-Dade community college.

She would be teaching college students by day and her nights and weekends would be spent playing on the beach, sailing and sipping margaritas.

A community college instructor makes maybe $40k a year.

With her experience, could be higher. And there is no publish or perish pressure in community college. She didn't have to write The NY Times Op piece. And she could be teaching in Miami, so this is about her choice. She chose the more prestigious position in the middle of the corn field in Nebraska.

Yep. She was after the prestige from the get go. Her choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we were in the similar situation this year. We chose full ride to UVA. The child got some financial aid from two Ivy colleges. We are middle-upper middle class, but we saved only for the in-state tuition for each child. To send her to Ivy with financial aid would mean either to take loans for additional $15-20k per year, or to re-mortgage our fully paid house. We went back and forward many times, discussed it with two different financial advisors, and decided to go UVA.

I know several rich families in this area (fully paid houses that costs 1,5-2.5 mil), stable jobs and still sending their children to state college. For me, as a middle class parent, it is a good indicator how rich people invest money.

Contrary, we went to both Ivies to the admitted student days, one was a two day with overnight stay. There were a lot of stressed parents who are taking huge loans, a lot of them look like immigrants/or first generation americans. My child stayed with a kid who's parents took loans and paying them while child is in the school. My kid decided that she doesn't want to put any financial stress on us when we have a free option.

Your post makes it sound like you have something negative to say about immigrants and first generation americans. The fact of the matter is immigrants and first generation americans are making a rational choice going for the ivy because people such as them benefit from the networks and opportunities opened up by the ivy league whereas those that've been here for multiple generations might not need the same help.

Ding, ding, ding! Something people who refuse to understand alternative perspectives and circumstances can't seem to wrap their heads around. My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...but it's notable the difference in network I have as an HYPS alum compared to my siblings who went to our flagship state school. My brother went to HYS for law school, which has helped his career...but one thing I've noticed is that you really learn how to work your network as an undergrad. He's doing absolutely fine (better than fine), but contrary to what everyone says about grad school networks mattering more, I would say that I benefit the most from my elite undergrad network. My sister is an entrepreneur, and she agrees with this assessment of the importance of undergrad networks, by the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we were in the similar situation this year. We chose full ride to UVA. The child got some financial aid from two Ivy colleges. We are middle-upper middle class, but we saved only for the in-state tuition for each child. To send her to Ivy with financial aid would mean either to take loans for additional $15-20k per year, or to re-mortgage our fully paid house. We went back and forward many times, discussed it with two different financial advisors, and decided to go UVA.

I know several rich families in this area (fully paid houses that costs 1,5-2.5 mil), stable jobs and still sending their children to state college. For me, as a middle class parent, it is a good indicator how rich people invest money.

Contrary, we went to both Ivies to the admitted student days, one was a two day with overnight stay. There were a lot of stressed parents who are taking huge loans, a lot of them look like immigrants/or first generation americans. My child stayed with a kid who's parents took loans and paying them while child is in the school. My kid decided that she doesn't want to put any financial stress on us when we have a free option.

Your post makes it sound like you have something negative to say about immigrants and first generation americans. The fact of the matter is immigrants and first generation americans are making a rational choice going for the ivy because people such as them benefit from the networks and opportunities opened up by the ivy league whereas those that've been here for multiple generations might not need the same help.

Ding, ding, ding! Something people who refuse to understand alternative perspectives and circumstances can't seem to wrap their heads around. My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...but it's notable the difference in network I have as an HYPS alum compared to my siblings who went to our flagship state school. My brother went to HYS for law school, which has helped his career...but one thing I've noticed is that you really learn how to work your network as an undergrad. He's doing absolutely fine (better than fine), but contrary to what everyone says about grad school networks mattering more, I would say that I benefit the most from my elite undergrad network. My sister is an entrepreneur, and she agrees with this assessment of the importance of undergrad networks, by the way.

"My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...". This is key. Many first generation from Ivy League don't connect. And some still struggle after college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Ding, ding, ding! Something people who refuse to understand alternative perspectives and circumstances can't seem to wrap their heads around. My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...but it's notable the difference in network I have as an HYPS alum compared to my siblings who went to our flagship state school. My brother went to HYS for law school, which has helped his career...but one thing I've noticed is that you really learn how to work your network as an undergrad. He's doing absolutely fine (better than fine), but contrary to what everyone says about grad school networks mattering more, I would say that I benefit the most from my elite undergrad network. My sister is an entrepreneur, and she agrees with this assessment of the importance of undergrad networks, by the way.

"My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...". This is key. Many first generation from Ivy League don't connect. And some still struggle after college.

This is true, but it's true of any group. I have another first-generation friend whose parents are not at all well-connected...but she went to Wharton and now she basically seems to know everyone. If I ever can't find someone in my network, she invariably knows at least three people to connect me with.

An Ivy or comparable elite gives you access to a network that your birth circumstances might not provide. It's up to you to figure out how to use it...but it's there. I promise. I get my foot into all kinds of places based 100% on my academic pedigree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Ding, ding, ding! Something people who refuse to understand alternative perspectives and circumstances can't seem to wrap their heads around. My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...but it's notable the difference in network I have as an HYPS alum compared to my siblings who went to our flagship state school. My brother went to HYS for law school, which has helped his career...but one thing I've noticed is that you really learn how to work your network as an undergrad. He's doing absolutely fine (better than fine), but contrary to what everyone says about grad school networks mattering more, I would say that I benefit the most from my elite undergrad network. My sister is an entrepreneur, and she agrees with this assessment of the importance of undergrad networks, by the way.

"My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...". This is key. Many first generation from Ivy League don't connect. And some still struggle after college.

This is true, but it's true of any group. I have another first-generation friend whose parents are not at all well-connected...but she went to Wharton and now she basically seems to know everyone. If I ever can't find someone in my network, she invariably knows at least three people to connect me with.

An Ivy or comparable elite gives you access to a network that your birth circumstances might not provide. It's up to you to figure out how to use it...but it's there. I promise. I get my foot into all kinds of places based 100% on my academic pedigree.

I am curious, was it based on your ivy pedigree or was it based on your college pedigree? There is a difference. Most non-Ivy LACs are less known to outsiders yet are close knit and have a strong alum network. So was it the ivy pedegree or was it the close knit alum connection? I am thinking if most of your connections came from your college alum base, this may have less to do with ivy and more to do with the close connection many feel with their own college.

[Anonymous]

She could go get some crummy non-tenured teaching gig in Miami tomorrow. She doesn't want the sun, she wants a multi-million dollar tacky mansion. She's in Nebraska for the $ and prestige of a tenure gig.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She could go get some crummy non-tenured teaching gig in Miami tomorrow. She doesn't want the sun, she wants a multi-million dollar tacky mansion. She's in Nebraska for the $ and prestige of a tenure gig.

Then what is she complaining about? Are tacky mcmansions in Nebraska really that hard to come by? I'll bet she could get a steal of a deal on one. Maybe she really can have her cake and eat it to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Does she feel that Cornell was not worth it? That the financial stress was too much for her parents? Or did she realize that where you go to college does not determine your life outcome? In that case, no shit Sherlock.

I feel like the essay was half finished.

I agree. She clearly contemplated the issues, but I don't think she really reached a conclusion.

I'm also someone who was first generation immigrant at Cornell. The difference is there was an inheritance that paid for my education. Without it, I would have gone to SUNY Binghamton like all my other smart classmates. But that was many years ago before student loans were so widely available. I think you can have a good life regardless of where you go to school.

Interesting. Do you feel as though you benefited from attending Cornell? Do you think that your experience was any different than what your friends experienced at SUNY?

I honestly don't know. I had a couple of special circumstances. My mother passed away from cancer my freshman year, and that just really messed me up, academically and personally. At that time anyway, the school was not particularly supportive. I'd like to think that has changed, but I don't know. I don't think a SUNY school would have been any more supportive, but it would be hard for it to be less. That, plus the fact I don't think I'm an inherently ambitious person, meant I didn't really capitilize on my education in the end. Maybe it opened some doors along the way, I don't know.

I am extremely analytical, and I think my engineering education there helped foster that, but perhaps any engineering school could have helped there as well. If my mother hadn't died, things probably would have been different, and maybe I'd be a math teacher with twenty-plus years experience by now. Who knows?

I don't think I'm likely to encourage my kids to take on loans to go to an Ivy. If they get money, great, but if not, I don't think it's worth going in to debt for. I think UVA will be a great choice, assuming they get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get it. Does she feel that Cornell was not worth it? That the financial stress was too much for her parents? Or did she realize that where you go to college does not determine your life outcome? In that case, no shit Sherlock.

I feel like the essay was half finished.

I agree. She clearly contemplated the issues, but I don't think she really reached a conclusion.

I'm also someone who was first generation immigrant at Cornell. The difference is there was an inheritance that paid for my education. Without it, I would have gone to SUNY Binghamton like all my other smart classmates. But that was many years ago before student loans were so widely available. I think you can have a good life regardless of where you go to school.

Interesting. Do you feel as though you benefited from attending Cornell? Do you think that your experience was any different than what your friends experienced at SUNY?

I honestly don't know. I had a couple of special circumstances. My mother passed away from cancer my freshman year, and that just really messed me up, academically and personally. At that time anyway, the school was not particularly supportive. I'd like to think that has changed, but I don't know. I don't think a SUNY school would have been any more supportive, but it would be hard for it to be less. That, plus the fact I don't think I'm an inherently ambitious person, meant I didn't really capitilize on my education in the end. Maybe it opened some doors along the way, I don't know.

I am extremely analytical, and I think my engineering education there helped foster that, but perhaps any engineering school could have helped there as well. If my mother hadn't died, things probably would have been different, and maybe I'd be a math teacher with twenty-plus years experience by now. Who knows?

I don't think I'm likely to encourage my kids to take on loans to go to an Ivy. If they get money, great, but if not, I don't think it's worth going in to debt for. I think UVA will be a great choice, assuming they get in.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I'm sorry that you lost your mom at such a young age and during such a transitional year for you. I'm sure that it was extremely difficult not having the support of your school. Their lack of concern would have only compounded the sadness of the situation. I can totally understand how that would sour the experience of the school.

UVA would be a wonderful choice for your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Ding, ding, ding! Something people who refuse to understand alternative perspectives and circumstances can't seem to wrap their heads around. My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...but it's notable the difference in network I have as an HYPS alum compared to my siblings who went to our flagship state school. My brother went to HYS for law school, which has helped his career...but one thing I've noticed is that you really learn how to work your network as an undergrad. He's doing absolutely fine (better than fine), but contrary to what everyone says about grad school networks mattering more, I would say that I benefit the most from my elite undergrad network. My sister is an entrepreneur, and she agrees with this assessment of the importance of undergrad networks, by the way.

"My parents are extremely well-connected for immigrants...". This is key. Many first generation from Ivy League don't connect. And some still struggle after college.

This is true, but it's true of any group. I have another first-generation friend whose parents are not at all well-connected...but she went to Wharton and now she basically seems to know everyone. If I ever can't find someone in my network, she invariably knows at least three people to connect me with.

An Ivy or comparable elite gives you access to a network that your birth circumstances might not provide. It's up to you to figure out how to use it...but it's there. I promise. I get my foot into all kinds of places based 100% on my academic pedigree.

I am curious, was it based on your ivy pedigree or was it based on your college pedigree? There is a difference. Most non-Ivy LACs are less known to outsiders yet are close knit and have a strong alum network. So was it the ivy pedegree or was it the close knit alum connection? I am thinking if most of your connections came from your college alum base, this may have less to do with ivy and more to do with the close connection many feel with their own college.

For me it's both (and full disclosure, I went to Stanford so not an Ivy, but an equivalent). The network effect of a place like Stanford is real, and I think people do feel more affinity to their undergrad alma mater than their grad school one (I know I do). But the Stanford name has also been cited by interviewers etc as a reason they paid attention to my resume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a Latina friend who got in to Cornell 30 years ago. Apparently Cornell admits tons of people without fully funding them. She couldn't afford Cornell then and had to turn it down for a community college. She's now a loud-mouth low-level govt clerk. Yeah, the one you saw at DMV. After seeing her in action, I realized Cornell isn't all that. It's a school that takes in a CC-level student for stats purpose.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what being a Latina has to do with anything else that your wrote?

urm