One Fairfax

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The admit rate Asians is twice that of whites. All non-Asians need to get off the sports fields and get to Sunshine school if we want to increase our chances!

Do you have any statistics as how many Sunshine Academy student makes it to TJ? These are american kids admitted to American school, why bring race in to the picture?

I apologise for my comment. It was snarky but not intended to be racist or anti immigrant. Someone said that if blacks and Hispanics studied more, they would get in. I looked at the numbers and saw that Asians get in at a much higher rate than the rest. Perhaps in order to increase our chances we should be doing what some in the Asian demographic are doing instead of whining about not getting in.

Agree.

Most disadvantaged black or Hispanic kids can't afford Sunshine Academy, Kumon, robotics camps, STEM camps, etc. Also, many white parents don't see the value of this extreme emphasis on sending kids to academic schools/camps 24/7. TJ is what it is. You need to be bright, but you also need extra curriculars that most URMs aren't in a financial position to be involved in. FCPS has great courses available in all its schools, so I'm really not concerned with whether TJ has high URM numbers. I'm concerned about whether the kids in lower income areas of FCPS are given a good academic foundation starting in K. My DC is in AAP, breezed through Algebra 1 and Geometry in MS, but had no interest in TJ and didn't apply. I'm ok with that. I'm also equally ok with Asian families who value TJ. To each his own. One Fairfax should not be about trying to change TJ, or demonizing Asian families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS just started 3rd grade AAP. His class is over 50% non-Asian minorities. DS is Asian-American. There are only 2 Asian kids in his class. I am sure several of those kids may end up at TJ. Don’t know if it matters but the African American kids are mostly children of African immigrants.

I too have noticed that the AA kids in my kids' AAP classes are children of recent African Immigrants. I think their parents see education as a path to success in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The admit rate Asians is twice that of whites. All non-Asians need to get off the sports fields and get to Sunshine school if we want to increase our chances!

Do you have any statistics as how many Sunshine Academy student makes it to TJ? These are american kids admitted to American school, why bring race in to the picture?

I apologise for my comment. It was snarky but not intended to be racist or anti immigrant. Someone said that if blacks and Hispanics studied more, they would get in. I looked at the numbers and saw that Asians get in at a much higher rate than the rest. Perhaps in order to increase our chances we should be doing what some in the Asian demographic are doing instead of whining about not getting in.

Agree.

Most disadvantaged black or Hispanic kids can't afford Sunshine Academy, Kumon, robotics camps, STEM camps, etc. Also, many white parents don't see the value of this extreme emphasis on sending kids to academic schools/camps 24/7. TJ is what it is. You need to be bright, but you also need extra curriculars that most URMs aren't in a financial position to be involved in. FCPS has great courses available in all its schools, so I'm really not concerned with whether TJ has high URM numbers. I'm concerned about whether the kids in lower income areas of FCPS are given a good academic foundation starting in K. My DC is in AAP, breezed through Algebra 1 and Geometry in MS, but had no interest in TJ and didn't apply. I'm ok with that. I'm also equally ok with Asian families who value TJ. To each his own. One Fairfax should not be about trying to change TJ, or demonizing Asian families.

Separate but equal didn't work in the past, and separate and unequal shouldn't be carried forward in the future. TJ makes a mockery of One Fairfax.

[Anonymous]

Actually, I think TJ reflects reality like it or not. There is always someone who will figure out how to do it better/faster/cheaper and they'll get the opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Separate but equal didn't work in the past, and separate and unequal shouldn't be carried forward in the future. TJ makes a mockery of One Fairfax.

I am not understanding your point with TJ, and what you see as a better way.
Your comparison of the past doesn't work... separate but equal had racially/gender based admissions without the equal opportunity to pursue the same goal.
TJ is the exact opposite -- there is an admissions process which is blind to race and gender, and gives equal opportunity across the board.

To "fix" the racial imbalance that mocks One Fairfax, you need to start at a way way lower level. TJ isn't the target.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Separate but equal didn't work in the past, and separate and unequal shouldn't be carried forward in the future. TJ makes a mockery of One Fairfax.

I am not understanding your point with TJ, and what you see as a better way.
Your comparison of the past doesn't work... separate but equal had racially/gender based admissions without the equal opportunity to pursue the same goal.
TJ is the exact opposite -- there is an admissions process which is blind to race and gender, and gives equal opportunity across the board.

To "fix" the racial imbalance that mocks One Fairfax, you need to start at a way way lower level. TJ isn't the target.

I am an URM and I actually agree with the PP.
TJ is the most visible example of resource imbalance, but if you look at schools throughout the county, you see it all around.
Look at the summer academy at Oakton/Madison- only these students have access to special classes during the summer; these schools have a lower % of URM; or Chantilly Stem program

Or who can afford to pay out of pocket for summer school classes?
Who can afford to compete in national stem competitions in middle school?

I think the problem people have with TJ is that it seems to get an unequal proportion of resources for a very small, economically elite group of kids.

[Anonymous]

A big start at fixing the issues with TJ admissions would be fixing the mbalance in the resources at the MS level, when kids apply. My TJ kid went through Carson, and there was TSA, TARC, Debate, We the People, OOTM, MathCounts, Private FLL teams etc., etc— all of which are competitive at the same and national level, all of which are free or low cost. Doing one or more of these gives kids something to put on their SIS, which may more important than the test in terms of admissions. A lot of MSs, even AAP Centers, do not offer some or all of these school based activities.

Carson teachers also get training on filling o it the TJ teacher recommendations, which apparently look for very specific things. Most schools do not do this.

Improving opportunities at the MS feeders who send fewer kids— starting with extracurriculars and teacher training— makes more kids competitive for TJ, and helps talented kids with lower SES get in. The point of one Fairfax should not be to dismantle TJ— and then AAP— is also unequal. That’s lowering the bar. It should be to make TJ and AAP equally available to any talented kid, and raise the bar at the feeders that currently have few kids admitted.

And BTW— TJ is a lot “fairer” than McLean or Langley. TJ admission is merit based. To get an education at the best base schools in the county, with the best results, your parent has to be able to afford the million dollar home. If you want to dismantle TJ, you should also be pushing for countywide rezoning to get the same number of FARMs kids in each school, and aim for Mt. Vernon and Langley to have the same average SATs. Anyone up for that?

[Anonymous]

Honestly, the fastest way to improve the achievement gap is to make TJ admissions tied to a specific feeder high school. Each school would get the same amount of spots for any student who passed the TJ entrance exam.

You would see a mad rush to move into the Lee and Mount Vernon feeders.

I don't know why the county just doesn't do that. It's what Arlington did for HB Woodlawn admissions and that decision was held up in court as a legal, equitable admissions policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, the fastest way to improve the achievement gap is to make TJ admissions tied to a specific feeder high school. Each school would get the same amount of spots for any student who passed the TJ entrance exam.

You would see a mad rush to move into the Lee and Mount Vernon feeders.

I don't know why the county just doesn't do that. It's what Arlington did for HB Woodlawn admissions and that decision was held up in court as a legal, equitable admissions policy.

Way to kill the thread with common sense.

[Anonymous]

I am amazed at the difference in county funded after school programs offered at the middle schools. However I wonder if lower SES kids would be involved even if they were offered. I think many of these kids may not be able to stay after if they have to be home to babysit younger sibs. I think they should take that funding and offer some of these programs during school during the study period. Many of the high flyers don't need the extra time anyway. Take the high flyers and offer them math counts or AMC practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A big start at fixing the issues with TJ admissions would be fixing the mbalance in the resources at the MS level, when kids apply. My TJ kid went through Carson, and there was TSA, TARC, Debate, We the People, OOTM, MathCounts, Private FLL teams etc., etc— all of which are competitive at the same and national level, all of which are free or low cost. Doing one or more of these gives kids something to put on their SIS, which may more important than the test in terms of admissions. A lot of MSs, even AAP Centers, do not offer some or all of these school based activities.

Carson teachers also get training on filling o it the TJ teacher recommendations, which apparently look for very specific things. Most schools do not do this.

Improving opportunities at the MS feeders who send fewer kids— starting with extracurriculars and teacher training— makes more kids competitive for TJ, and helps talented kids with lower SES get in. The point of one Fairfax should not be to dismantle TJ— and then AAP— is also unequal. That’s lowering the bar. It should be to make TJ and AAP equally available to any talented kid, and raise the bar at the feeders that currently have few kids admitted.

And BTW— TJ is a lot “fairer” than McLean or Langley. TJ admission is merit based. To get an education at the best base schools in the county, with the best results, your parent has to be able to afford the million dollar home. If you want to dismantle TJ, you should also be pushing for countywide rezoning to get the same number of FARMs kids in each school, and aim for Mt. Vernon and Langley to have the same average SATs. Anyone up for that?

I agree with this... it makes a lot of sense.
Keep the top being the best-of-the-best.

A lot of the other posters suggestions would dilute that (i.e. forced geographic diversification, forced racial diversification).
But that misses the point of TJ... to get the very best STEM talent regardless of other factors (geography/race/gender). Lowering the bar here
You need to fix this at the lower layers... the MS feeders... and the elementaries. Get the under-represented kids more into STEM from the beginning.

Its going to be the same argument if you open any type of top-tier competition.
South Asians now dominate the spelling bees. Should we limit how many Indians are allowed to apply?
If you have a magnet school for top musicians, someone will complain that its not fair that wealthier people can afford more music lessons.

The answer is not to dumb down the top, but to bring more people up to qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I am amazed at the difference in county funded after school programs offered at the middle schools. However I wonder if lower SES kids would be involved even if they were offered. I think many of these kids may not be able to stay after if they have to be home to babysit younger sibs. I think they should take that funding and offer some of these programs during school during the study period. Many of the high flyers don't need the extra time anyway. Take the high flyers and offer them math counts or AMC practice.

I believe a big difference comes from a lot of the funding coming from the PTAs.

[Anonymous]

No, middle school after school programs are funded by the county. The schools decide how to spend it and offer programs that interest the school community.

[Anonymous]

It's difficult getting a science team going due to lack of interest when schools like Carson are turning kids away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am amazed at the difference in county funded after school programs offered at the middle schools. However I wonder if lower SES kids would be involved even if they were offered. I think many of these kids may not be able to stay after if they have to be home to babysit younger sibs. I think they should take that funding and offer some of these programs during school during the study period. Many of the high flyers don't need the extra time anyway. Take the high flyers and offer them math counts or AMC practice.

I believe a big difference comes from a lot of the funding coming from the PTAs.

At Carson, it is less PTA funding and more parent involvement. A lot of the top academic teams are run and coached by parents, at the school, after school. It works for Carson, but might not in poorer schools. Here’s what would— drawing from what worlds at TJ and lengthening the school day to add an embedded activities period 8th period. Pay the teachers for the extra period, and have clubs and teams meet during the school day. The TJ model would also work well at lower SES MSs. It has the added bonus of letting kids that are struggling use this time for remediation in subject areas where they are having trouble, or have supervised homework time with teachers available to assist. Or, if that just isn’t possible, let kids use their 7th period for an academic team meeting instead of one of their two electives. They get a Math Counts or Debate practice two blocks a week. The teacher who would otherwise teach art or Tech Ed supervises it. Kids don’t have to stay after and get a free extracurricular.

These are the type of things that should be the goal of One Fairfax. The creative extras that raise lower SES kids up to the level of more affluent kids.