Does anyone here actually send their kid to Hayfield/Edison/West Potomac/5 or lower GS high schools?

[Anonymous]

Actually, Mount Vernon has 2 kids going to Harvard this coming year. And one of them got into Notre Dame, UVA, William & Mary, VA Tech, GW, Georgetown, Univ of Chicago, and every Ivy except Cornell (because he didn't apply to Cornell.) West Point's class of 2016's First Captain and Class President was a 2012 Mount Vernon grad, Eugene Coleman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No -- (not PP)... it's not that anyone has anything against your kid doing well at a GS 4 school. But, you seem hell bent on insulting everyone else for being so dumb to put their kids in a higher ranked school or having kids who aren't superstars. Everyone is happy that it works out for your high flying kids, but we can't all count on that and we don't like to be insulted just b/c kids have different abilities. Smugness is unattractive.

DCUM always delivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A Mount Vernon grad is headed to Harvard in the fall. Bloom where you are planted, indeed!

FWIW, the blog Covering the Corridor, has the college lists for Hayfield, West Potomac and Mount Vernon. Lots of solid schools on the list, yes, no HYP (other than the MVHS student), but schools with good programs.

The MV list overall is really sad for an FCPS high school but perhaps that is to be expected.

The two other schools look better but hard to say without the actual numbers going to different schools.

Certainly nothing to dissuade most people who can afford higher rated schools to pursue that option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A Mount Vernon grad is headed to Harvard in the fall. Bloom where you are planted, indeed!

FWIW, the blog Covering the Corridor, has the college lists for Hayfield, West Potomac and Mount Vernon. Lots of solid schools on the list, yes, no HYP (other than the MVHS student), but schools with good programs.

The MV list overall is really sad for an FCPS high school but perhaps that is to be expected.

The two other schools look better but hard to say without the actual numbers going to different schools.

Certainly nothing to dissuade most people who can afford higher rated schools to pursue that option.

And not so concerning to avoid the lower rated schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, Mount Vernon has 2 kids going to Harvard this coming year. And one of them got into Notre Dame, UVA, William & Mary, VA Tech, GW, Georgetown, Univ of Chicago, and every Ivy except Cornell (because he didn't apply to Cornell.) West Point's class of 2016's First Captain and Class President was a 2012 Mount Vernon grad, Eugene Coleman.

Wow! Thanks for sharing these MVHS success stories and not just the negative!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one on these threads is more smug than people posting about their "elite" GS 9 schools. You all want to go on and on about your cohorts and high achieving peer pressure.
You are dumb.
You are also hurting your kids.
But keep piling on all that pressure.
We'll just be over here at our lesser schools with happy and successful kids. Carry on.

I posted earlier about the pass rates at Hayf and West Po. I didn't post the pass rates for the higher end schools... but just FYI -- the pass rates for the higher SES schools are 25-30% points higher across the board. In some AP classes, it is 35-65% higher. Yes, there are always 25+ percent of the AP class takers who pass the exam at the lower tier schools (sometimes it is more like 65%).... but frequently, the higher SES schools have pass rates 35-65% higher. What if your kid is in that gap? We're not talking about kids who are in the middle or low end of the entire 11th-12th grade class. We're talking about the subset of kids willing to take harder AP classes.... there is a gap among those kids where more of the higher-motivated kids are failing the AP exams at some schools compared to other schools. No one has addressed this discrepancy.

It does not really move the discussion forward to bicker and present anecdotes about how kid A or kid B did really well and got into UVA/Swarthmore/Stanford. Let's look at the bigger picture and address the data in a way that makes sense. No one knows for sure how their children will do at either a high or low SES school until they actually go there. Instead of single data points, let's talk about observable facts relating to larger groups of kids. Anyone care to explain the AP pass data?

Don't you think that's it's because kids are taking these classes that aren't ready?
I don't know what you're wanting to hear on this. Enough kids are passing, so there is learning happening. It's not a bad thing for traditionally less successful students to push themselves out of their comfort zone. Maybe they only get a 2 on the test, but it expands their horizons in the process.

I think that could be true for some of the AP classes where there are really high numbers of kids taking them (it's a "try AP class" -- Engl Lang. for instance). But, the "they aren't ready" doesn't make sense to me when it's a much smaller group of kids willing to take a harder AP class -- like AP Calc AB or Chemistry for instance. How can you say the 46 kids who took Calc AB (with only 30% passing) weren't ready to take it? Aren't those the top of the class (yes, I know there are some who take Calc BC). In the higher SES schools, you have 125-150 kids taking Calc AB and they still have 80% passing (or more). Shoot -- even FALLS CHURCH only had 44 kids taking Calc AB and they had 95% passing (yes, 95%). How can you square that with Hay consistently passing only 25-30% each year or even West Po passing 55%?

In Chemistry AP, you only have 30 kids even willing to take it at Hay, and yet only 9 kids (30%) pass the exam.... compare with other schools where 75-95% pass. Why would the very top kids who have shown a willingness to take the hardest science classes NOT be able to pass the same exam that other kids at other schools are taking? These are the cream of the crop kids -- not the "challenge index" kids. If you were picking a school, would you want to take a risk with the school that consistently has 25% passing or 85% of their kids passing? Seriously, I'm not trying to diminish your child's experience if s/he rocked it at a lower SES school --- you are the winners for sure -- but if you are picking one school (at great expense to buy a house), do you want to take a risk that even if your kid is among the top academic cohort, the chances of passing are not nearly as good.

It doesn't matter because the outcome is the same. Approx. 30% of qualified applicants from all of these schools get into UVA. There are plenty of of other good schools, but we'll use that as our measure.
So what is the point? Maybe your kid doesn't pass the AP calc test at Hayfield? So what? The outcomes are still the same. The difference is you better damn well perform at Langley, because there is a huge cohort of kids that are going to take 8-9 AP's.
No thanks. I want my kid to enjoy school and learn some stuff.
Keep the peer pressure over there.
So some schools send 40 kids to UVA and others send 10. So what? Your odds are the same either way, it's just a horrible pressure cooker in some schools, and a lot more reasonable in others.

Not very convincing. The data shows that the cohort at the lower SES schools that should be doing well generally under-performs as a group. So even if you beat the odds and end up one of the handful from a Hayfield who go to a top university, the peer group is going to be a rude awakening, whereas the Langley kid will more likely feel at home and hit the ground running.

It's only a rude awakening for your racist, sheltered kid to not have an all-white and wealthy cohort. You are not preparing your child for the world he or she will inhabit, except, sadly you actually are. In fact, the saddest thing is you think it's right and just.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one on these threads is more smug than people posting about their "elite" GS 9 schools. You all want to go on and on about your cohorts and high achieving peer pressure.
You are dumb.
You are also hurting your kids.
But keep piling on all that pressure.
We'll just be over here at our lesser schools with happy and successful kids. Carry on.

I posted earlier about the pass rates at Hayf and West Po. I didn't post the pass rates for the higher end schools... but just FYI -- the pass rates for the higher SES schools are 25-30% points higher across the board. In some AP classes, it is 35-65% higher. Yes, there are always 25+ percent of the AP class takers who pass the exam at the lower tier schools (sometimes it is more like 65%).... but frequently, the higher SES schools have pass rates 35-65% higher. What if your kid is in that gap? We're not talking about kids who are in the middle or low end of the entire 11th-12th grade class. We're talking about the subset of kids willing to take harder AP classes.... there is a gap among those kids where more of the higher-motivated kids are failing the AP exams at some schools compared to other schools. No one has addressed this discrepancy.

It does not really move the discussion forward to bicker and present anecdotes about how kid A or kid B did really well and got into UVA/Swarthmore/Stanford. Let's look at the bigger picture and address the data in a way that makes sense. No one knows for sure how their children will do at either a high or low SES school until they actually go there. Instead of single data points, let's talk about observable facts relating to larger groups of kids. Anyone care to explain the AP pass data?

Don't you think that's it's because kids are taking these classes that aren't ready?
I don't know what you're wanting to hear on this. Enough kids are passing, so there is learning happening. It's not a bad thing for traditionally less successful students to push themselves out of their comfort zone. Maybe they only get a 2 on the test, but it expands their horizons in the process.

I think that could be true for some of the AP classes where there are really high numbers of kids taking them (it's a "try AP class" -- Engl Lang. for instance). But, the "they aren't ready" doesn't make sense to me when it's a much smaller group of kids willing to take a harder AP class -- like AP Calc AB or Chemistry for instance. How can you say the 46 kids who took Calc AB (with only 30% passing) weren't ready to take it? Aren't those the top of the class (yes, I know there are some who take Calc BC). In the higher SES schools, you have 125-150 kids taking Calc AB and they still have 80% passing (or more). Shoot -- even FALLS CHURCH only had 44 kids taking Calc AB and they had 95% passing (yes, 95%). How can you square that with Hay consistently passing only 25-30% each year or even West Po passing 55%?

In Chemistry AP, you only have 30 kids even willing to take it at Hay, and yet only 9 kids (30%) pass the exam.... compare with other schools where 75-95% pass. Why would the very top kids who have shown a willingness to take the hardest science classes NOT be able to pass the same exam that other kids at other schools are taking? These are the cream of the crop kids -- not the "challenge index" kids. If you were picking a school, would you want to take a risk with the school that consistently has 25% passing or 85% of their kids passing? Seriously, I'm not trying to diminish your child's experience if s/he rocked it at a lower SES school --- you are the winners for sure -- but if you are picking one school (at great expense to buy a house), do you want to take a risk that even if your kid is among the top academic cohort, the chances of passing are not nearly as good.

It doesn't matter because the outcome is the same. Approx. 30% of qualified applicants from all of these schools get into UVA. There are plenty of of other good schools, but we'll use that as our measure.
So what is the point? Maybe your kid doesn't pass the AP calc test at Hayfield? So what? The outcomes are still the same. The difference is you better damn well perform at Langley, because there is a huge cohort of kids that are going to take 8-9 AP's.
No thanks. I want my kid to enjoy school and learn some stuff.
Keep the peer pressure over there.
So some schools send 40 kids to UVA and others send 10. So what? Your odds are the same either way, it's just a horrible pressure cooker in some schools, and a lot more reasonable in others.

Not very convincing. The data shows that the cohort at the lower SES schools that should be doing well generally under-performs as a group. So even if you beat the odds and end up one of the handful from a Hayfield who go to a top university, the peer group is going to be a rude awakening, whereas the Langley kid will more likely feel at home and hit the ground running.

It's only a rude awakening for your racist, sheltered kid to not have an all-white and wealthy cohort. You are not preparing your child for the world he or she will inhabit, except, sadly you actually are. In fact, the saddest thing is you think it's right and just.

No school in FCPS has an all-white and wealthy cohort. There are, of course, many schools where the majority of the students are high-performing, and they are the most sought-after. No one cares if you want to send your own kid into schools with mostly low-achievers where they can huddle with the two dozen other kids who are actually at grade level.

[Anonymous]

Yes yes yes... please spend more time on DCUM gloating about your "cohorts" and "coveted" pyramids. Oh is your school really sought after? Gee, how nice.
I guess I'm intelligent enough to know that crap doesn't matter. There are no guarantees people.
You want to look at the data and be promised an outcome? It doesn't work like that.
Here's how it works... you spend time with your kid, and you par attentions to them. You make observation and adjust accordingly. The school doesn't raise your kid, you do.

[Anonymous]

Moving the discussion along.....

So, we know that some schools have higher AP pass rates and others have lower rates. For what purposes does it matter if kids pass the AP exams? Yes, I know they can get college credit if they get a 4 or 5 on the exams.... but my understanding is that a lot of kids plan to take those same classes in college. So, maybe kids in some schools just say "whatever" to the AP exams b/c they don't really care if they pass or not.

I'm already assuming my kids aren't getting into UVA or WM. So, if we're looking at GMU/JMU/Mary Wash/OOS big universities.... and my kids are taking some AP classes ... does passing the AP exam make any difference?

And can we just skip the arguments about who is going to be prepared to deal with diversity in college or who is going to be over their heads with the college academics? I mean really -- kids in FCPS are familiar with diversity regardless of where they go to school (at least mine are) and when we're talking about typical universities (not HPY), kids who take several AP classes in HS are going to be prepared.

So, I wonder -- maybe those passrate (although discouraging at the lower SES schools) don't really matter much at all for anything?

[Anonymous]

Should have also added VaTech into my expected list (above).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Moving the discussion along.....

So, we know that some schools have higher AP pass rates and others have lower rates. For what purposes does it matter if kids pass the AP exams? Yes, I know they can get college credit if they get a 4 or 5 on the exams.... but my understanding is that a lot of kids plan to take those same classes in college. So, maybe kids in some schools just say "whatever" to the AP exams b/c they don't really care if they pass or not.

I'm already assuming my kids aren't getting into UVA or WM. So, if we're looking at GMU/JMU/Mary Wash/OOS big universities.... and my kids are taking some AP classes ... does passing the AP exam make any difference?

And can we just skip the arguments about who is going to be prepared to deal with diversity in college or who is going to be over their heads with the college academics? I mean really -- kids in FCPS are familiar with diversity regardless of where they go to school (at least mine are) and when we're talking about typical universities (not HPY), kids who take several AP classes in HS are going to be prepared.

So, I wonder -- maybe those passrate (although discouraging at the lower SES schools) don't really matter much at all for anything?

Bingo.
No guarantees. Pass rates are pretty irrelevant. Diversity is everywhere. Your kid is unique and you try and place them where they will thrive. The acceptance stats are the same at all schools. Approx 30% go to UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moving the discussion along.....

So, we know that some schools have higher AP pass rates and others have lower rates. For what purposes does it matter if kids pass the AP exams? Yes, I know they can get college credit if they get a 4 or 5 on the exams.... but my understanding is that a lot of kids plan to take those same classes in college. So, maybe kids in some schools just say "whatever" to the AP exams b/c they don't really care if they pass or not.

I'm already assuming my kids aren't getting into UVA or WM. So, if we're looking at GMU/JMU/Mary Wash/OOS big universities.... and my kids are taking some AP classes ... does passing the AP exam make any difference?

And can we just skip the arguments about who is going to be prepared to deal with diversity in college or who is going to be over their heads with the college academics? I mean really -- kids in FCPS are familiar with diversity regardless of where they go to school (at least mine are) and when we're talking about typical universities (not HPY), kids who take several AP classes in HS are going to be prepared.

So, I wonder -- maybe those passrate (although discouraging at the lower SES schools) don't really matter much at all for anything?

Bingo.
No guarantees. Pass rates are pretty irrelevant. Diversity is everywhere. Your kid is unique and you try and place them where they will thrive. The acceptance stats are the same at all schools. Approx 30% go to UVA.

30% of where goes to UVA? Even TJ with 66 kids attending this year doesn't send 30%. There are classes of 800 kids sending 240 kids each year to UVA? For that matter, TJ will have 2/3 of their class apply, and 2/3 of them accepted. But after that, no FCPS even comes close to having 2/3 of kids admitted. Again-- that's more than 200 admits from most schools.

[Anonymous]

^^ sorry no FCPS school has close to 30% of kids admitted to UVA. Let alone attend.

[Anonymous]

30% of the qualified applicants.


There might 300 of those kids
There may be 30

[Anonymous]

This debate is such a great example of people desperate to justify their life choices and comfirmation bias in action. . Most people want to give their kid a great education. So they end up having to convince themselves and everyone else they are. Sending your kid to a GS 4 school? Most people would feel like pretty shitty parents if they could afford to better, maybe with a longer commute and didn't. So they find ways to convince themselves that they have made a good choice. Ditto the GS 9 parents. They need to convince themselves that the premium they paid for their house was worth it. And the TJ parents, who need to feel like all the extra work and pressure (and carpooling) gives their kids a superior education. And the private school parents, who need to feel like they are getting a better education for their extra 40k a year.

When the reality is probably in the middle. A kid will have better teachers, peers and more challenging classes at a better high school. But for most kids, not enough to make or break their ability to succeed in life. Only a handful of kids-- SN, profoundly GT, etc. really need GS8 or GS 3 or TJ or private.

But don't kid yourself. This is about you making peace with your own decisions.