Another article about the magnet programs in Washington Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those worried about the magnets being watered down, aren't there many qualified kids who don't quite make the cut? Would it be so bad if, for example, the HGCs served the top 7% of kids in the county rather than the top 3%?

Honestly, I think the best solution here is to keep the HGCs as they are, but to make sure that ALL schools have acceleration available for the kids in that 90 - 97% range. That would sweep up a lot of URMs as well as middle class white kids who are not "highly gifted" but who can handle more acceleration than is currently provided.

I'd rather see each school have a pull-out program (within the school) that serves the top 15%.

What happens if the top 15% in each school are largely populated by Whites and Asians?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the fact that 40% of the program are National Merit Scholars and the average SAT score of the program is 2250 means nothing if kids choose to go to UMD because it has the program they want or is most financially manageable to them.

The middle class/upper middle-class kids would still likely have SAT scores of 2250 and be NMS at their home schools. The lower-income students would still be at the magnet. So, I'm not saying it means nothing, I'm saying it's a wash.

Do you really think that UMD is these kids dream school? (I'm not saying anything bad about the school). If Blair really created amazing students we would see more students going to top schools (both because they would get in and because of merit scholarships).

You must have young kids - certainly not college ready yet.

About 1/2 MCPS high schools have not even 1 NMSF. Not even 1. Out of 130-160 NMSF in MCPS produce every year, about 1/2 comes from two programs - Blair Magnet and RM/IB (about equal number from each). This year each produced slightly over 40 kids. Think about that for a moment - out of 100 kids, 40-some are NMSF. These kids are performing at a very high level. If they mix-in kids just based on color of their skin, it just means either those kids will fail (if they maintain current standard) or water-downing the program (if you want to retain all kids at any cost).

As for UMD comment, a lot of kids in this area with parents making 200k and up, they are not qualified to get FA at top tier schools. So, many take UMD path with merit aid and save money for post-college education - med school, law school, phd...etc. including all of my kids.

I would argue that the reason for this is the magnet program structure itself is responsible for the higher numbers of NMSF and not necessarily the kids themselves.

That is a ridiculous comment!!

[Anonymous]

For those worried about the magnets being watered down, aren't there many qualified kids who don't quite make the cut? Would it be so bad if, for example, the HGCs served the top 7% of kids in the county rather than the top 3%?

It doesn't sound MCPS is proposing expanding magnets to serve the top 7%. It sounds like they are attempting to create different entrance criteria based on race which to my knowledge is not legal in public K-12 education per MD state law and federal funding. MCPS can legally do more outreach, encouragement, and provide special services to minority students but they can't create two different standards for entrance criteria anymore than they can create two different grading scales dependent on race.

To my knowledge all kids take the first GT test -Raven or InView in 2nd grade. Did the consultants provide any data about how many minority students scored within the top 3%, 5%, 7%, 10%? Understanding the pool of qualified students within the demographic that you are targeting is the first step.

If there is evidence from the 2nd grade test that there are enough minority students scoring within the top 3% to increase diversity at magnets but that these students are just not applying then the solution is to address what are the barriers to applying. If there is evidence that enough minority students are within 3% of the top scores but are not being selected then the solution is to address why they weren't accepted despite their high scores.

If there are only enough minority scoring at 6% rather than 3% and MCPS plans to double the seats to accommodate all students meeting this target then its fair.

If there are not enough minority students scoring within the 3% then lowering the target to 6% without doubling the seats in the magnets and HGC to accommodate all students meeting this new target -only minority students-it is equally unfair. A non-minority student scoring 3% or higher would be losing their seat to a minority student scoring lower.

[Anonymous]

I think the schools should bundle the magnet program information and saturday school information with the FARMS and ESOL information.

I mean the FARMS/ESOL crowd is not missing out on these services, are they? So maybe that is the correct channel for information for this demographic.

Easy peasy cheap and effective common sense solution!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who do not know about magnet programs know about the George B Thomas Learning Academy? www.saturdayschool.org/

Are the underperforming students making use of this resource? Who is the person incharge of this academy? what is their race? What are they doing to inform everyone about this resource?

We are at a Focus School and get fliers in English and Spanish for this program, plus robo phone calls. However, it was never clear to me from the calls whether my family was the target audience. Recently our principal noted that about 40 kids from our school participate in this program, so I'm guessing that our school does a pretty decent job of making sure that the kids who would qualify/benefit are aware. Still, the blanket approach to publicizing it seems to be less effective than the school actively recruiting underperforming students. That means, of course, that the school staff need to be aware of the program, motivated to identify needy students, and in touch with parents to get kids signed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For those worried about the magnets being watered down, aren't there many qualified kids who don't quite make the cut? Would it be so bad if, for example, the HGCs served the top 7% of kids in the county rather than the top 3%?

It doesn't sound MCPS is proposing expanding magnets to serve the top 7%. It sounds like they are attempting to create different entrance criteria based on race which to my knowledge is not legal in public K-12 education per MD state law and federal funding. MCPS can legally do more outreach, encouragement, and provide special services to minority students but they can't create two different standards for entrance criteria anymore than they can create two different grading scales dependent on race.

To my knowledge all kids take the first GT test -Raven or InView in 2nd grade. Did the consultants provide any data about how many minority students scored within the top 3%, 5%, 7%, 10%? Understanding the pool of qualified students within the demographic that you are targeting is the first step.

If there is evidence from the 2nd grade test that there are enough minority students scoring within the top 3% to increase diversity at magnets but that these students are just not applying then the solution is to address what are the barriers to applying. If there is evidence that enough minority students are within 3% of the top scores but are not being selected then the solution is to address why they weren't accepted despite their high scores.

If there are only enough minority scoring at 6% rather than 3% and MCPS plans to double the seats to accommodate all students meeting this target then its fair.

If there are not enough minority students scoring within the 3% then lowering the target to 6% without doubling the seats in the magnets and HGC to accommodate all students meeting this new target -only minority students-it is equally unfair. A non-minority student scoring 3% or higher would be losing their seat to a minority student scoring lower.

And, let me tell you, kids are not stupid. That non-minority student will remember and resent the fact his/her seat was taken away for a long time. Now you know why Trump is so popular.

[Anonymous]

Each high school has at least one section of AP/Honors classes

So what exactly is the point of the magnet program

Personally I did GT in elementary school. It accomplished nothing.

Are there some real genius kids who should be skipping grades and taking real college classes in 9th grade

Yes of course but there might be say 100 of them in the whole county and they will advance regardless if there is a special program or not

For everyone else what's the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who do not know about magnet programs know about the George B Thomas Learning Academy? www.saturdayschool.org/

Are the underperforming students making use of this resource? Who is the person incharge of this academy? what is their race? What are they doing to inform everyone about this resource?

My kiddo volunteered there for years. Mostly blacks and Latino kids and mostly elementary/middle school age. Very cheap to sign up. Very good, dedicated teaching staff trying to help under performing kids. Check it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Each high school has at least one section of AP/Honors classes

So what exactly is the point of the magnet program

Personally I did GT in elementary school. It accomplished nothing.

Are there some real genius kids who should be skipping grades and taking real college classes in 9th grade

Yes of course but there might be say 100 of them in the whole county and they will advance regardless if there is a special program or not

For everyone else what's the point.

I believe you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about - Year round school for poor URM students starting from pre-K? These students must get into gifted programs to get into 10 month of regular school schedule.

This will bridge the achievement gap in my opinion.

You want to pass a law with different school attendance requirements depending on the student's race/ethnicity and the student's family's income? Really?

And would this requirement apply to the kids of my neighbors, who are African-Americans with a law degree and an MBA, respectively? Please explain.

Well, we are talking about changing the admissions criteria for magnets based on race/ethnicity and family income, are we not? So, why not change the attendance requirement for schools as well?

You are. MCPS is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who do not know about magnet programs know about the George B Thomas Learning Academy? www.saturdayschool.org/

Are the underperforming students making use of this resource? Who is the person incharge of this academy? what is their race? What are they doing to inform everyone about this resource?

We are at a Focus School and get fliers in English and Spanish for this program, plus robo phone calls. However, it was never clear to me from the calls whether my family was the target audience. Recently our principal noted that about 40 kids from our school participate in this program, so I'm guessing that our school does a pretty decent job of making sure that the kids who would qualify/benefit are aware. Still, the blanket approach to publicizing it seems to be less effective than the school actively recruiting underperforming students. That means, of course, that the school staff need to be aware of the program, motivated to identify needy students, and in touch with parents to get kids signed up.

I think the schools should bundle the magnet program information and saturday school information with the FARMS and ESOL information.

I mean the FARMS/ESOL crowd is not missing out on these services, are they? So maybe that is the correct channel for information for this demographic.

Easy peasy cheap and effective common sense solution!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the parents who do not know about magnet programs know about the George B Thomas Learning Academy? www.saturdayschool.org/

Are the underperforming students making use of this resource? Who is the person incharge of this academy? what is their race? What are they doing to inform everyone about this resource?

My kiddo volunteered there for years. Mostly blacks and Latino kids and mostly elementary/middle school age. Very cheap to sign up. Very good, dedicated teaching staff trying to help under performing kids. Check it out.

I think the schools should bundle the magnet program information and saturday school information with the FARMS and ESOL information.

I mean the FARMS/ESOL crowd is not missing out on these services, are they? So maybe that is the correct channel for information for this demographic.

Easy peasy cheap and effective common sense solution!

[Anonymous]

^ George B Thomas is NOT a MCPS program. It's an independent program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

For those worried about the magnets being watered down, aren't there many qualified kids who don't quite make the cut? Would it be so bad if, for example, the HGCs served the top 7% of kids in the county rather than the top 3%?

It doesn't sound MCPS is proposing expanding magnets to serve the top 7%. It sounds like they are attempting to create different entrance criteria based on race which to my knowledge is not legal in public K-12 education per MD state law and federal funding. MCPS can legally do more outreach, encouragement, and provide special services to minority students but they can't create two different standards for entrance criteria anymore than they can create two different grading scales dependent on race.

To my knowledge all kids take the first GT test -Raven or InView in 2nd grade. Did the consultants provide any data about how many minority students scored within the top 3%, 5%, 7%, 10%? Understanding the pool of qualified students within the demographic that you are targeting is the first step.

If there is evidence from the 2nd grade test that there are enough minority students scoring within the top 3% to increase diversity at magnets but that these students are just not applying then the solution is to address what are the barriers to applying. If there is evidence that enough minority students are within 3% of the top scores but are not being selected then the solution is to address why they weren't accepted despite their high scores.

If there are only enough minority scoring at 6% rather than 3% and MCPS plans to double the seats to accommodate all students meeting this target then its fair.

If there are not enough minority students scoring within the 3% then lowering the target to 6% without doubling the seats in the magnets and HGC to accommodate all students meeting this new target -only minority students-it is equally unfair. A non-minority student scoring 3% or higher would be losing their seat to a minority student scoring lower.

And, let me tell you, kids are not stupid. That non-minority student will remember and resent the fact his/her seat was taken away for a long time. Now you know why Trump is so popular.

Or that white kid will have idiot, racist parents who teach him this as gospel, whether or not it is actually true. I am black, and was an honors student at an Ivy. On more than one occasion since college, I have had some overgrown, middle aged white frat boy-type complain to me that I took his spot at my alma mater. Forget those high SAT and AP scores and the fact that I was valedictorian at a well-regarded NY area high school. A black woman with an ivy degree must have taken some poor white guy's spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not sure. This is a problem that basically every school district in the country is dealing with, and a district like MCPS with significant racial and economic diversity is just dealing with it in a higher profile manner.

There have been multiple dissertations written on how to identify gifted kids from URM groups, so I'm not going to pretend to know more than the experts. All I'm saying is that we have to identify the correct problem. There are gifted kids in every racial/ethnic/economic group. We know that. We also know that the kids identified as "gifted" in MCPS are not at all representative of the student population. So...how do we make sure that we're not excluding gifted and high achieving kids, who would be successful in the magnet programs, just because they are poor or Black or Latino, or whatever?

But unfortunately there are many people, on DCUM as well as in real life, who think that some racial/ethnic/economic groups have more gifted kids than others. I.e., the reason that whites and Asians are overrepresented at the application magnets and that Hispanics and blacks are underrepresented (using MCPS classifications and MCPS demographics) is that whites and Asians are smarter than Hispanics and blacks. In other words, Hispanics and blacks aren't in the application magnets because they're not qualified to be in the application magnets. Hence the fact-free leap from "MCPS wants to get more Hispanic and black kids to apply" to "MCPS is going to admit unqualified Hispanic and black kids just because they're Hispanic and black!"