The Kids Who Beat Autism: New York Times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, a whole 119 kids compared to the 1 in 68 children identified with autism...

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0327-autism-spectrum-disorder.html

OP, this is a diagnosis issue (or misdiagnosis) not kids "beating" or "overcoming" autism.

If you read, you will see that these individuals were carefully reviewed prior to tracking in the study.

It's a very limited study. 119 kids is a drop in the bucket. These kids are not cured and still have traits. They may have had the same prognosis without services. It is impossible to say.

You're too much. I think most parents seeking to help their ASD kids would consider a loss of diagnosis while maintaining some traits/ quirks a HUGE success.

Besides, this is not the first study. A larger one (1300 kids) in 2012 showed even larger percentages of recovery - as high as 1/3. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/01/18/peds.2011-1717.abstract

Another study found a ~20% recovery rate, but I don't have time to locate it now.

If they have quirks and traits and a history or autism, then they still have autism.

No they don't. Not sure why you have your panties in a twist about this, but that's not true. It is fascinating that you put yourself above the ACTUAL AUTISM EXPERTS who did the studies.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can't "lose" an autism diagnosis. That's sort of like saying in the middle of a gestational period, that a woman is no longer pregnant. If they no longer had a diagnosis of autism, it's likely they were misdiagnosed to begin with.

Children can show very autistic like behavior but not have full blown autism.

Stupid, stupid researchers out there and doctors diagnosing our children.

And WHO are you PP? People figure out medical things all the time. Jeez, there is no reason to believe there will be no progress in autism. I'm glad there are people out there with open, inquisitive minds willing to work on things like this.

Who am I? I'm a parent of an autistic child who has probably ever therapy known from the age of two on. I left my legal career to do nothing but help my child and I left no stone unturned. My child was very high functioning to begin with and, despite all efforts, we see very little difference. My husband is a doctor who sees children with ASD all the time also. I never stated there would no progress in autism, simply that progress will not be enough to take you out of the diagnosis. It will not. So fuck you for your attitude and ignorance. When you have tried every known therapy or treatment, then write on this thread.

Just because you have an autistic child does not mean you have a crystal ball. Thank goodness your negative attitude will not stop others from searching for answers.

There are no answers. Just interventions, wild educated guesses and pure luck. She is sad, exhausted and really struggling. Till you have been there, do not judge.

There are no answers NOW. We hope -- I see you are without hope but others still have hope -- that there will be answers, cures and ways to prevent it in the future. That's what the article was about -- that there may be cures.

My child happens to be one of the ones breaking through and I posted that so I do not understand your comment. I am very hopeful my child will be ok but as we go to services daily, I can see the wide variety of kids and how they and their families struggle. There is no cure - these kids can function better but they will still have their struggles. Until they find out the individual causes for why, then can never truly cure it. I believe in misdiagnosis as the reason not cure. You cure cancer or another medical issue. Autism is not something your cure.

How can you say a thing like that? If they don't even know what causes it -- and something obviously causes it -- then how can you be so determined that there is no cure? There is a cure. We need to find it. (they didn't used to cure cancer or other medical issues either -- but thanks to research, now we can cure some cancers and lots of other medical conditions.)

This is not cancer or some illness. This probably has multiple origins depending on the person. We do not have the technology to identify it and while we can improve the quality of some lives, we can never cure it. If it is "cured," then that person had something else entirely and never had autism. Autism can never be cured... just the quality of life improved with early and continuing intervention (which our society often does not even want to pay for). One day there may be a "cure" but as of today, we have a bunch of studies with educated guesses and wishful thinking and a group of us parents struggling to do the very best for our kids and hoping for the best possible outcome within this unknown. This is NOT cancer. This is not an allergy. We don't know what it is and my guess is for many, it is something different. It could be a birth defect, it could be a nutritional issue, it could be a birth injury, it could be a genetic issue or it could be none of the above. We just do not know! With some cancer's, they can pinpoint it and fix it. Do not compare the two. That is insulting.

There are respected, mainstream medical professionals who do not agree with you. There are kids who lose their DX and who improve enough that they are for all intents and purposes "cured."

We know so little about autism that to say that no one ever gets cured is ludicrous. People get better. Neuroplasticity is wonderful thing. Some people beat it.

Name those professionals who say Autism can be cured. Name them now. I will call them.

James Copland
http://www.drcoplan.com/

https://www.rethinkfirst.com/community/news/Story.aspx?ID=1008

Did you view the entire second link? Dr. Copland clearly states that just because many symptoms disappear does not mean the child is cured of ASD. In merely 15% of cases, symptoms do disappear but the child is not cured.

Yes, I've read it. He has a full explanation here:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201008/017-losing-the-asd-diagnosis-does-not-equal-cur

Quit moving the goal line. First you say that no kid with an autism spectrum disorder can lose their DX. According to you, if they do they were misdiagnosed. Now you say "Well, if they lose their DX, they are still not cured because they have residual symptoms."

THe goal line hasn't moved. You can't underboth that both can be true. Kids don't lose an ASD dx. If they do, they were likely misdx to begin with. If they lose most of their symptoms like Dr. Copland said is possible with 15% of them, they retain quirks and eccentricities.

Apparently you have a definition of ASD that says its forever. Therefore any case where a person loses it was not really a case of ASD. Fine, but that is not the actual definition of ASD. It's just your definition and lord knows why you embraced it and why you insist others are supposed to embrace it, too.

Does this person even have a child with ASD? ASD is diagnosed through behaviors. It's not like cancer where there are physical/biological indicators. Everyone has autistic traits in some form or another but it's the severity and combinations of behaviors that gives autistic people a diagnosis of ASD. If the behaviors are not there, no longer there and/or does not reach a critical level, the person does not have autism.

Not sure why this pp is so committed to her belief that ASD is incurable...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, a whole 119 kids compared to the 1 in 68 children identified with autism...

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0327-autism-spectrum-disorder.html

OP, this is a diagnosis issue (or misdiagnosis) not kids "beating" or "overcoming" autism.

If you read, you will see that these individuals were carefully reviewed prior to tracking in the study.

It's a very limited study. 119 kids is a drop in the bucket. These kids are not cured and still have traits. They may have had the same prognosis without services. It is impossible to say.

You're too much. I think most parents seeking to help their ASD kids would consider a loss of diagnosis while maintaining some traits/ quirks a HUGE success.

Besides, this is not the first study. A larger one (1300 kids) in 2012 showed even larger percentages of recovery - as high as 1/3. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/01/18/peds.2011-1717.abstract

Another study found a ~20% recovery rate, but I don't have time to locate it now.

If they have quirks and traits and a history or autism, then they still have autism.

no, they don't!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, a whole 119 kids compared to the 1 in 68 children identified with autism...

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0327-autism-spectrum-disorder.html

OP, this is a diagnosis issue (or misdiagnosis) not kids "beating" or "overcoming" autism.

If you read, you will see that these individuals were carefully reviewed prior to tracking in the study.

It's a very limited study. 119 kids is a drop in the bucket. These kids are not cured and still have traits. They may have had the same prognosis without services. It is impossible to say.

You're too much. I think most parents seeking to help their ASD kids would consider a loss of diagnosis while maintaining some traits/ quirks a HUGE success.

Besides, this is not the first study. A larger one (1300 kids) in 2012 showed even larger percentages of recovery - as high as 1/3. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2012/01/18/peds.2011-1717.abstract

Another study found a ~20% recovery rate, but I don't have time to locate it now.

If they have quirks and traits and a history or autism, then they still have autism.

I suggest you look upon actual medical definition of autism. Quirks by themsevles do not constitute autism and the history of diagnosis is irrelevant. Formerly autistic now merely "quirky" person is judged by the same criteria as everyone else - if he doesn't meet criteria for diagnosis he is not autistic.

[Anonymous]

Please stop engaging with this crazed person who claims autism is not curable.

My ASD kid is cured. She was diagnosed at age 3, and now has NO symptoms of autism. She had mild symptoms, compared to many autistic kids, but all the same ones, and she has NONE of those symptoms now.

We took the DAN approach, and it worked. No ABA, no medications. Just a biomedical approach. It worked. My kid is cured.

I just want to post this for those of you who are still in the trenches. I will say that it took 15 years of nonstop work plus thousands of dollars for various treatments recommended by our DAN doctor. But it worked for my DD.

Autism is curable. Don't ever stop believing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than likely the kids who "recovered" probably have some disorder or another, e.g., Social Communication Pragmatics Disorder.

It just shows that intervention works.

another person who hasn't read the article.

Exactly. The studies mentioned in the article state that some kids lost their diagnosis with no interventions at all.

The article mentions two kids with the same severe autism who both received the same amount and kinds of therapies and while one recovered and lost his autism diagnosis, the other kid did not improve at all and remains severely autistic.

The entire point of the article was that there needs to be more studies on such disparate outcomes.

Not true. As PPs pointed out, some of the kids did not receive intensive behavioral therapy. They received interventions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Moreover, this applies to so few ASD children, theo ones with IQs over 100 so it doesn't make sense for every parent to hang onto this with hope. Majority of ASD children do not have IQs over 100.

Says who? Where?

Says Dr. Copland, an autism expert.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can't "lose" an autism diagnosis. That's sort of like saying in the middle of a gestational period, that a woman is no longer pregnant. If they no longer had a diagnosis of autism, it's likely they were misdiagnosed to begin with.

Children can show very autistic like behavior but not have full blown autism.

Stupid, stupid researchers out there and doctors diagnosing our children.

And WHO are you PP? People figure out medical things all the time. Jeez, there is no reason to believe there will be no progress in autism. I'm glad there are people out there with open, inquisitive minds willing to work on things like this.

Who am I? I'm a parent of an autistic child who has probably ever therapy known from the age of two on. I left my legal career to do nothing but help my child and I left no stone unturned. My child was very high functioning to begin with and, despite all efforts, we see very little difference. My husband is a doctor who sees children with ASD all the time also. I never stated there would no progress in autism, simply that progress will not be enough to take you out of the diagnosis. It will not. So fuck you for your attitude and ignorance. When you have tried every known therapy or treatment, then write on this thread.

Just because you have an autistic child does not mean you have a crystal ball. Thank goodness your negative attitude will not stop others from searching for answers.

There are no answers. Just interventions, wild educated guesses and pure luck. She is sad, exhausted and really struggling. Till you have been there, do not judge.

There are no answers NOW. We hope -- I see you are without hope but others still have hope -- that there will be answers, cures and ways to prevent it in the future. That's what the article was about -- that there may be cures.

My child happens to be one of the ones breaking through and I posted that so I do not understand your comment. I am very hopeful my child will be ok but as we go to services daily, I can see the wide variety of kids and how they and their families struggle. There is no cure - these kids can function better but they will still have their struggles. Until they find out the individual causes for why, then can never truly cure it. I believe in misdiagnosis as the reason not cure. You cure cancer or another medical issue. Autism is not something your cure.

How can you say a thing like that? If they don't even know what causes it -- and something obviously causes it -- then how can you be so determined that there is no cure? There is a cure. We need to find it. (they didn't used to cure cancer or other medical issues either -- but thanks to research, now we can cure some cancers and lots of other medical conditions.)

This is not cancer or some illness. This probably has multiple origins depending on the person. We do not have the technology to identify it and while we can improve the quality of some lives, we can never cure it. If it is "cured," then that person had something else entirely and never had autism. Autism can never be cured... just the quality of life improved with early and continuing intervention (which our society often does not even want to pay for). One day there may be a "cure" but as of today, we have a bunch of studies with educated guesses and wishful thinking and a group of us parents struggling to do the very best for our kids and hoping for the best possible outcome within this unknown. This is NOT cancer. This is not an allergy. We don't know what it is and my guess is for many, it is something different. It could be a birth defect, it could be a nutritional issue, it could be a birth injury, it could be a genetic issue or it could be none of the above. We just do not know! With some cancer's, they can pinpoint it and fix it. Do not compare the two. That is insulting.

There are respected, mainstream medical professionals who do not agree with you. There are kids who lose their DX and who improve enough that they are for all intents and purposes "cured."

We know so little about autism that to say that no one ever gets cured is ludicrous. People get better. Neuroplasticity is wonderful thing. Some people beat it.

Name those professionals who say Autism can be cured. Name them now. I will call them.

James Copland
http://www.drcoplan.com/

https://www.rethinkfirst.com/community/news/Story.aspx?ID=1008

Did you view the entire second link? Dr. Copland clearly states that just because many symptoms disappear does not mean the child is cured of ASD. In merely 15% of cases, symptoms do disappear but the child is not cured.

Yes, I've read it. He has a full explanation here:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201008/017-losing-the-asd-diagnosis-does-not-equal-cur

Quit moving the goal line. First you say that no kid with an autism spectrum disorder can lose their DX. According to you, if they do they were misdiagnosed. Now you say "Well, if they lose their DX, they are still not cured because they have residual symptoms."

THe goal line hasn't moved. You can't underboth that both can be true. Kids don't lose an ASD dx. If they do, they were likely misdx to begin with. If they lose most of their symptoms like Dr. Copland said is possible with 15% of them, they retain quirks and eccentricities.

Apparently you have a definition of ASD that says its forever. Therefore any case where a person loses it was not really a case of ASD. Fine, but that is not the actual definition of ASD. It's just your definition and lord knows why you embraced it and why you insist others are supposed to embrace it, too.

Does this person even have a child with ASD? ASD is diagnosed through behaviors. It's not like cancer where there are physical/biological indicators. Everyone has autistic traits in some form or another but it's the severity and combinations of behaviors that gives autistic people a diagnosis of ASD. If the behaviors are not there, no longer there and/or does not reach a critical level, the person does not have autism.

Not sure why this pp is so committed to her belief that ASD is incurable...

Everyone has autistic traits? Are you insane? That statement shows your naiveté. Patently false statement. There are several people who are arguing the same point as I am on this thread. I am not the lone person with this view.

Hold fast to your bubble but I will truly feel badly for you when that bubble bursts. To minimize the symptoms of ASD enough to fall out of a dx, one had to have started early intervention even before the age of 1. And I highly doubt you can melt away all the symptoms unless the children has an above average IQ ( per Dr Copland). So rather than sitting around dreaming for this, get your babies into EI asap and do therapy 40 hrs per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please stop engaging with this crazed person who claims autism is not curable.

My ASD kid is cured. She was diagnosed at age 3, and now has NO symptoms of autism. She had mild symptoms, compared to many autistic kids, but all the same ones, and she has NONE of those symptoms now.

We took the DAN approach, and it worked. No ABA, no medications. Just a biomedical approach. It worked. My kid is cured.

I just want to post this for those of you who are still in the trenches. I will say that it took 15 years of nonstop work plus thousands of dollars for various treatments recommended by our DAN doctor. But it worked for my DD.

Autism is curable. Don't ever stop believing it.

Give the name of your DAN Dr then & share your secret with the desperate parents here who also hope for the cure your child was lucky enough to have. Why say your child was cured but fail to mention the Dr who cured your child? Because you know full well it will not work on most ASD children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids can't "lose" an autism diagnosis. That's sort of like saying in the middle of a gestational period, that a woman is no longer pregnant. If they no longer had a diagnosis of autism, it's likely they were misdiagnosed to begin with.

Children can show very autistic like behavior but not have full blown autism.

Stupid, stupid researchers out there and doctors diagnosing our children.

And WHO are you PP? People figure out medical things all the time. Jeez, there is no reason to believe there will be no progress in autism. I'm glad there are people out there with open, inquisitive minds willing to work on things like this.

Who am I? I'm a parent of an autistic child who has probably ever therapy known from the age of two on. I left my legal career to do nothing but help my child and I left no stone unturned. My child was very high functioning to begin with and, despite all efforts, we see very little difference. My husband is a doctor who sees children with ASD all the time also. I never stated there would no progress in autism, simply that progress will not be enough to take you out of the diagnosis. It will not. So fuck you for your attitude and ignorance. When you have tried every known therapy or treatment, then write on this thread.

Just because you have an autistic child does not mean you have a crystal ball. Thank goodness your negative attitude will not stop others from searching for answers.

There are no answers. Just interventions, wild educated guesses and pure luck. She is sad, exhausted and really struggling. Till you have been there, do not judge.

There are no answers NOW. We hope -- I see you are without hope but others still have hope -- that there will be answers, cures and ways to prevent it in the future. That's what the article was about -- that there may be cures.

My child happens to be one of the ones breaking through and I posted that so I do not understand your comment. I am very hopeful my child will be ok but as we go to services daily, I can see the wide variety of kids and how they and their families struggle. There is no cure - these kids can function better but they will still have their struggles. Until they find out the individual causes for why, then can never truly cure it. I believe in misdiagnosis as the reason not cure. You cure cancer or another medical issue. Autism is not something your cure.

How can you say a thing like that? If they don't even know what causes it -- and something obviously causes it -- then how can you be so determined that there is no cure? There is a cure. We need to find it. (they didn't used to cure cancer or other medical issues either -- but thanks to research, now we can cure some cancers and lots of other medical conditions.)

This is not cancer or some illness. This probably has multiple origins depending on the person. We do not have the technology to identify it and while we can improve the quality of some lives, we can never cure it. If it is "cured," then that person had something else entirely and never had autism. Autism can never be cured... just the quality of life improved with early and continuing intervention (which our society often does not even want to pay for). One day there may be a "cure" but as of today, we have a bunch of studies with educated guesses and wishful thinking and a group of us parents struggling to do the very best for our kids and hoping for the best possible outcome within this unknown. This is NOT cancer. This is not an allergy. We don't know what it is and my guess is for many, it is something different. It could be a birth defect, it could be a nutritional issue, it could be a birth injury, it could be a genetic issue or it could be none of the above. We just do not know! With some cancer's, they can pinpoint it and fix it. Do not compare the two. That is insulting.

There are respected, mainstream medical professionals who do not agree with you. There are kids who lose their DX and who improve enough that they are for all intents and purposes "cured."

We know so little about autism that to say that no one ever gets cured is ludicrous. People get better. Neuroplasticity is wonderful thing. Some people beat it.

Name those professionals who say Autism can be cured. Name them now. I will call them.

James Copland
http://www.drcoplan.com/

https://www.rethinkfirst.com/community/news/Story.aspx?ID=1008

Did you view the entire second link? Dr. Copland clearly states that just because many symptoms disappear does not mean the child is cured of ASD. In merely 15% of cases, symptoms do disappear but the child is not cured.

Yes, I've read it. He has a full explanation here:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201008/017-losing-the-asd-diagnosis-does-not-equal-cur

Quit moving the goal line. First you say that no kid with an autism spectrum disorder can lose their DX. According to you, if they do they were misdiagnosed. Now you say "Well, if they lose their DX, they are still not cured because they have residual symptoms."

THe goal line hasn't moved. You can't underboth that both can be true. Kids don't lose an ASD dx. If they do, they were likely misdx to begin with. If they lose most of their symptoms like Dr. Copland said is possible with 15% of them, they retain quirks and eccentricities.

Apparently you have a definition of ASD that says its forever. Therefore any case where a person loses it was not really a case of ASD. Fine, but that is not the actual definition of ASD. It's just your definition and lord knows why you embraced it and why you insist others are supposed to embrace it, too.

Does this person even have a child with ASD? ASD is diagnosed through behaviors. It's not like cancer where there are physical/biological indicators. Everyone has autistic traits in some form or another but it's the severity and combinations of behaviors that gives autistic people a diagnosis of ASD. If the behaviors are not there, no longer there and/or does not reach a critical level, the person does not have autism.

Not sure why this pp is so committed to her belief that ASD is incurable...

Everyone has autistic traits? Are you insane? That statement shows your naiveté. Patently false statement. There are several people who are arguing the same point as I am on this thread. I am not the lone person with this view.

Hold fast to your bubble but I will truly feel badly for you when that bubble bursts. To minimize the symptoms of ASD enough to fall out of a dx, one had to have started early intervention even before the age of 1. And I highly doubt you can melt away all the symptoms unless the children has an above average IQ ( per Dr Copland). So rather than sitting around dreaming for this, get your babies into EI asap and do therapy 40 hrs per week.

Simon Baron Cohen who is a renown expert on autism characterize "autism" as having an "extreme male brain"... so at least 50% of the population

http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/people_baron-cohen

[Anonymous]

PP again. I have a child with ASD who wasn't diagnosed until 4 with ASD/Asperger's. He doesn't need 40 hrs a wk of therapy. He does fine with a social skills class and OT once a week for an hour at his mainstream language immersion school.

And I'm fine with it if he's never "cured".

[Anonymous]

Here's the study about "extreme male mind" and autism:

http://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/males-and-females-with-autism-show-an-extreme-of-the-typical-male-mind

[Anonymous]

"Simon Baron Cohen who is a renown expert on autism characterize "autism" as having an "extreme male brain"... so at least 50% of the population"

http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/people_baron-cohen

If Autism is having an EXTREME male brain, then that means it affects a small minority of that 50% neurotypical male brain. 50% of the male population does not have an EXTREME male brain, idiot.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I've had a hard day today but I just can't argue with stupid, such as the PP. I'm out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Simon Baron Cohen who is a renown expert on autism characterize "autism" as having an "extreme male brain"... so at least 50% of the population"

http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/people_baron-cohen

If Autism is having an EXTREME male brain, then that means it affects a small minority of that 50% neurotypical male brain. 50% of the male population does not have an EXTREME male brain, idiot.

The idea is that all males have traits that, when taken into extreme, become autism. Surely nobody believes that all males are autistic.