Arguing with DS over major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this economic climate, the days of doing 'hobby' majors r over!

Exactly. That's why Liberal Arts is the way to go. Technology is changing too fast to know what skills will be needed in 10 years. LeRning how to think will benefit you forever.

Wrong. I think the days of the SLACs are over too. And I went to a SLAC, majored in history and went to Yale law school. But nowadays I probably couldn't get back in my SLAC and Yale Law School. It's just too damn competitive. It's more important to get current with technology and move forward with it. Liberal arts doesn't teach you how to think (or spell, obviously). It's a creature of the past when people could easily get in and parents and loan programs made it affordable to spend fouryears study geology, history, philosophy or whatever. That's no longer the case. A relative of mine graduated from a SLAC with a puff major and over $200K in loans. He's bussing tables at an I-Hop. I am not making this up. At 26 he is going to have to file for bankruptcy (and yes I know the fed loans aren't discharged by bankruptcy).

Liberal arts don't teach you how to think? Philosophy doesn't teach you how to think? Conducting history research and writing it up doesn't teach you how to think? And by the way, geology is a science.

I'm sorry your relative is a slacker but thats hardly a scientific sample. Then again, you don't seem to understand what science is.

Not the PP, but no, philosophy doesn't "teach you how to think". There is no such thing. Philosophy teaches you about certain kinds of issues or problems (what it means to know, how we know what exists etc), and what various thoughtful people thought about these (I know because I was a philosophy major). But it's not something you can use in the workplace. There exists a 'general thinking skill' but that' is intelligence and it can not be taught - either you have it or you don't. Whatever can be taught does not transfer to other areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My history major son is in the financial sector in NYC and making enough money for an apartment in Soho - no roommates. Younger son, an English major, is in the financial sector in this area. He graduated last year. I think they've been able to land jobs because they work hard, they believe in themselves and developed excellent writing and critical thinking skills through the liberal arts. And part of them believing in themselves is that their parents do too.

I feel sorry for OPs son. Having parents who don't believe in you is a real strike against you.

Good for your sons, but if someone wanted to work in the finance sector, why not just major in finance? That seems like much less of a gamble than majoring in Dnglish/History and expecting to work in the finance sector. I mean, if someone wants to work in the fields of history or English then great, major in history or English, but why major in them if you don't? Not sure I understand the point of your point.

They are working in finance to make money but they have interests too. Their broad-based education serves them well - they are culturally literate, they understand the value of diversity, they understand the reality of globalism and global politics. They speak a language other than English which is helpful in an increasingly global world. And finally their liberal education makes for lifelong readers and learners. Most graduates today will change fields - most studies suggest more than once. A broad-based education increases the likelihood of being able to make career corrections and changes. But I am the first to realize that there is more than one way to do anything!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My history major son is in the financial sector in NYC and making enough money for an apartment in Soho - no roommates. Younger son, an English major, is in the financial sector in this area. He graduated last year. I think they've been able to land jobs because they work hard, they believe in themselves and developed excellent writing and critical thinking skills through the liberal arts. And part of them believing in themselves is that their parents do too.

I feel sorry for OPs son. Having parents who don't believe in you is a real strike against you.

Good for your sons, but if someone wanted to work in the finance sector, why not just major in finance? That seems like much less of a gamble than majoring in Dnglish/History and expecting to work in the finance sector. I mean, if someone wants to work in the fields of history or English then great, major in history or English, but why major in them if you don't? Not sure I understand the point of your point.

They are working in finance to make money but they have interests too. Their broad-based education serves them well - they are culturally literate, they understand the value of diversity, they understand the reality of globalism and global politics. They speak a language other than English which is helpful in an increasingly global world. And finally their liberal education makes for lifelong readers and learners. Most graduates today will change fields - most studies suggest more than once. A broad-based education increases the likelihood of being able to make career corrections and changes. But I am the first to realize that there is more than one way to do anything!

So fantastic to know that the guys getting paid obscene salaries to work in finance actually know nothing about finance. Or math or statistics or accounting. Explains a lot.

[Anonymous]

I truly believe that some students want the easy way out. They pick a major that is simple or perhaps they don't want to work hard in something they do not like or struggle with (i.e. math).

I was that kind of student. I wanted to do pre-med (and my parents really wanted me to as well) but I didn't want to work hard nor did I want to take upper level math. I ended up majoring in the liberal arts. I am now in my 40s and have children and I really wish my parents had pushed me to try harder or get tutoring. I really wish I had become a doctor as that has always been my passion and I have so many regrets for not doing it.

So for those people who are saying that a child will end up resenting their parents for forcing them to do something they don't want or are too lazy to do....that is not always the case. Some children just need the extra nudge.

With that said, if your child is set on majoring in something that you don't agree with, you can't risk the chance that he/she becomes miserable. Leave them be, don't fight it. It isn't worth is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My history major son is in the financial sector in NYC and making enough money for an apartment in Soho - no roommates. Younger son, an English major, is in the financial sector in this area. He graduated last year. I think they've been able to land jobs because they work hard, they believe in themselves and developed excellent writing and critical thinking skills through the liberal arts. And part of them believing in themselves is that their parents do too.

I feel sorry for OPs son. Having parents who don't believe in you is a real strike against you.

Good for your sons, but if someone wanted to work in the finance sector, why not just major in finance? That seems like much less of a gamble than majoring in Dnglish/History and expecting to work in the finance sector. I mean, if someone wants to work in the fields of history or English then great, major in history or English, but why major in them if you don't? Not sure I understand the point of your point.

They are working in finance to make money but they have interests too. Their broad-based education serves them well - they are culturally literate, they understand the value of diversity, they understand the reality of globalism and global politics. They speak a language other than English which is helpful in an increasingly global world. And finally their liberal education makes for lifelong readers and learners. Most graduates today will change fields - most studies suggest more than once. A broad-based education increases the likelihood of being able to make career corrections and changes. But I am the first to realize that there is more than one way to do anything!

Well, so do my kids...but they didn't pay several thousandss of dollars to do that...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My history major son is in the financial sector in NYC and making enough money for an apartment in Soho - no roommates. Younger son, an English major, is in the financial sector in this area. He graduated last year. I think they've been able to land jobs because they work hard, they believe in themselves and developed excellent writing and critical thinking skills through the liberal arts. And part of them believing in themselves is that their parents do too.

I feel sorry for OPs son. Having parents who don't believe in you is a real strike against you.

Good for your sons, but if someone wanted to work in the finance sector, why not just major in finance? That seems like much less of a gamble than majoring in Dnglish/History and expecting to work in the finance sector. I mean, if someone wants to work in the fields of history or English then great, major in history or English, but why major in them if you don't? Not sure I understand the point of your point.

They are working in finance to make money but they have interests too. Their broad-based education serves them well - they are culturally literate, they understand the value of diversity, they understand the reality of globalism and global politics. They speak a language other than English which is helpful in an increasingly global world. And finally their liberal education makes for lifelong readers and learners. Most graduates today will change fields - most studies suggest more than once. A broad-based education increases the likelihood of being able to make career corrections and changes. But I am the first to realize that there is more than one way to do anything!

Hobbies don't require degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My history major son is in the financial sector in NYC and making enough money for an apartment in Soho - no roommates. Younger son, an English major, is in the financial sector in this area. He graduated last year. I think they've been able to land jobs because they work hard, they believe in themselves and developed excellent writing and critical thinking skills through the liberal arts. And part of them believing in themselves is that their parents do too.

I feel sorry for OPs son. Having parents who don't believe in you is a real strike against you.

Good for your sons, but if someone wanted to work in the finance sector, why not just major in finance? That seems like much less of a gamble than majoring in Dnglish/History and expecting to work in the finance sector. I mean, if someone wants to work in the fields of history or English then great, major in history or English, but why major in them if you don't? Not sure I understand the point of your point.

They are working in finance to make money but they have interests too. Their broad-based education serves them well - they are culturally literate, they understand the value of diversity, they understand the reality of globalism and global politics. They speak a language other than English which is helpful in an increasingly global world. And finally their liberal education makes for lifelong readers and learners. Most graduates today will change fields - most studies suggest more than once. A broad-based education increases the likelihood of being able to make career corrections and changes. But I am the first to realize that there is more than one way to do anything!

So fantastic to know that the guys getting paid obscene salaries to work in finance actually know nothing about finance. Or math or statistics or accounting. Explains a lot.

+1
But they can BS on any topic, apparently!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here: of course I care about my son's happiness. How happy do you think he will be when he is unemployed and living with us at age 30 because he can't get a job with his history degree? I am enforcing this because I care about his happiness not just now but in 10-20 years.

As someone said, I was not born in the US, I grew up in the Ukraine. I got really lucky to move to first the uK for my education, and then to DC after I graduated. Through this I realized that you can't always get what you want, sometimes you have to make the harder choice now to improve your life for the future (choosing engineering rather then history). Of course we all want to marry a superstar and not have to work a day in our lives, but for the vast majority of us that will just not happon.

NP here. My friend's dad insisted he would only pay for an engineering degree. Her sibling flunked out after a year. Her dad then decided he would not pay for her college at all since the other sibling wasted his money. My friend ended up working full-time to put herself thru school so she missed out on internships, networking, social life, pretty much everything. Then she stayed with the retail job that put her thru school for years until she could afford grad school. Even with grad school it was only dumb luck/knowing someone in that field that got her a job in a field with no practical experience and even then she did not start in a permanent position. It's been a long road and my friend is not necessarily happy. Her life would have been much different if she had the support of her parents. The relationship is rocky to say the least.

I'm with the majority of the posters that say to focus on the career aspect, not the major. What does DS plan to do with history and geography? Has he shadowed someone in that field? Does he have plans to complete an internship? My mom said sometimes you figure out what you want to do by figuring out what you don't what to do. Are there careers he is interested in and he is worried about the math aspect so he won't try to compete? I would be worried that your DS hasn't done that legwork. The bottom line with my kids is that they have to support themselves. I may push to see that they are doing their homework on the career aspect of things if my kids aren't thinking that way. We only cover tuition for 4 years at a state university, and we do not pay for grad school. Being an adult means you make decisions but you also have to live with the consequences of those decisions. That would apply for both you and your son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My history major son is in the financial sector in NYC and making enough money for an apartment in Soho - no roommates. Younger son, an English major, is in the financial sector in this area. He graduated last year. I think they've been able to land jobs because they work hard, they believe in themselves and developed excellent writing and critical thinking skills through the liberal arts. And part of them believing in themselves is that their parents do too.

I feel sorry for OPs son. Having parents who don't believe in you is a real strike against you.

Good for your sons, but if someone wanted to work in the finance sector, why not just major in finance? That seems like much less of a gamble than majoring in Dnglish/History and expecting to work in the finance sector. I mean, if someone wants to work in the fields of history or English then great, major in history or English, but why major in them if you don't? Not sure I understand the point of your point.

They are working in finance to make money but they have interests too. Their broad-based education serves them well - they are culturally literate, they understand the value of diversity, they understand the reality of globalism and global politics. They speak a language other than English which is helpful in an increasingly global world. And finally their liberal education makes for lifelong readers and learners. Most graduates today will change fields - most studies suggest more than once. A broad-based education increases the likelihood of being able to make career corrections and changes. But I am the first to realize that there is more than one way to do anything!

Your sons probably came from money and went to a high ranked program.

A kid who can only afford state school and majors in liberal arts expecting to get into a finance or accounting job is going to be in for a rude awakening.

[Anonymous]

Liberal farts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I majored in art history with a minor in classics!! Now I work for a major cultural institution and earn $90,000/year. I realize that's probably pocket change to you, but it's enough for me and I'm happy.

DH majored in political science and now is an executive.

My brother majored in history with a minor in Russian and now he is a lawyer. My sister majored in history with a minor in French and now she is a public defender.

All of us would have died a slow death if we'd been forced to major in business, accounting, engineering, computer science etc.

And all of us can write well and enjoy a real life of the mind.

I hope your DS realizes that age 18 he will be autonomous and will move out of your house and figure out on his own how to go to college through working and loans and study what he wants.

This is true of the past but the competition is now fierce.

You will not make it starting out today.

[Anonymous]

IF the OP is paying then I think he/she gets a say in what the major is. Her son has a choice - he can pay for school on his own.

My employer paid for my degree but I had to pick one of two different programs. There were no other options. I wanted my degree paid for so I sucked it up and picked one of the options despite not having any interest in it. I did well, got a degree, had no debt and was employed full time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a cultural difference.

Asians would never stand for those crappy majors. The whole white let them find themselves bull shit is why their numbers at TJ are falling.

The only sucesful people who majored in liberal arts are those that went to grad school for something useful.

THIS. Growing up in CA, for most Asians, if you didn't go to UC Berkely or UCLA, then you were a failure. And if you majored in anything other than engineering or pre-med, you were also going to end up with no job prospects and not making enough $.

I just asked my DH this same question. What if our DD wanted to study music or dance? Would we agree? I'm extremely practical so unless the kid is like Juliard material, this kind of major doesn't appeal to me.

If you read the articles about what majors have the highest unemployment, most are Liberal Arts (exception is Architecture). Having stated that however, I think you need to talk to your kid about what they are going to do with the major and what the job prospects are. Even with higher ed, some types of majors have a harder time finding a job.

In some ways, I agree with OP. You are spending a lot of $ on something so that your child will one day be financially stable, not necessarily rich, but stable. I don't think it's wrong to have this discussion with your kid.

However, OP, even if you major in LA, it doesn't mean that person cannot find a job in another field - like a friend that majored in Sociology but couldn't find a job so ended up working in accounting. It's harder for sure, but not impossible. I know you are just trying to make it easier for your child to find a job when your child graduates. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

I would make the kid pay for part of their education so that the kid feels the ramification of their choices, ie, debt and gee, life's hard if you don't have a good paying job.

[Anonymous]

If you want to mess around and have fun, find yourself etc... take time off and do that before entering college. Don't waste your time and money in college finding yourself. Study a degree in college that actually will be able to give you a return on your investment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to mess around and have fun, find yourself etc... take time off and do that before entering college. Don't waste your time and money in college finding yourself. Study a degree in college that actually will be able to give you a return on your investment.

+100

couldn't agree with you more. Which is why I can't completely blame OP for feeling the way she does. It is a tough situation to be in. You do want a return on your money and that return is to see your child be successful and make a decent/comfortable living.

If a parent is paying, I think that parent has the right to have a say in the matter. However, ultimately you want your child to be happy.