Private school testing for kindergarten?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think it is a conspiracy, but $375 for an hour or so to test and an hour to type the report is a pretty good living when you note that the kids are booked back to back 8 hours a day from Sept. through June. Some Lawyers in this town should be so lucky

Required School Admission Tests

PSAT costs $13 (2 hours)

SAT costs are a $49 (with writing) (3 to 4 hours)

ACT costs are $49.50 (with writing) (3 to 4 hours)

SSAT costs are $116 (3 hours)

WPPSI costs are $375 (1 hour)

What's the definition of a scam on the backs of 4, 5, and 6-year-old children?

All of the those other tests are taken in large groups as opposed to one of one with a licensed pysch. Also computers do most of the work on computing the results and the WPPSI results are done manually. The WPPSI is a much more labor intensive test to give and to evaluate. The SAT is $50 but there are 50 kids in the room and one person to oversee. That is about $2,500 for one afternoon of testing.

Also the other tests are usually mailed to schools and given in the schools with a school employee overseeing the test takers so there is very little overhead costs. There is very little this employee needs to do other than give basic instructions provided by the testing company. The pyschologists performing the WPPSI use their own office space and are responsible for maintaining the office (rent, computers, phone and internet bills, etc. etc.) The WPPSI test itself along with the grading materials are several thousand dollars for each new version. The pysch pays for the test from the testing company.

[Anonymous]

Well, you can argue over the price and relevance all day but this stay at home mom has a child that is ready for Kindergarten and we are applying to a good private school which requires both the testing (DIAL assessment) & WPPSI and an activity session so I will be buying the Smarty App to help her feel comfortable with the material she already probably knows but not the format, paying the psychologist fee and confident since I have raised her well that the activity session will go fine....I am sorry however that I wasted 15 minutes reading the banter back and forth when I could have bought that app 5 minutes ago and spend the extra 10 minutes with her!

[Anonymous]

Dial lady, are you getting paid for product placement? As far as I can tell, you are the only one buying whatever that app is that you seem to want the rest of us to buy. If you are so confident that you raised her well (and I suspect you are not a mom but somehow affiliated with this smarty app thing), what on earth do you need it for? Also, no one else is taking any Dial test. However, good luck! Since you are wasting your time reading this banter anyway, please stop posting ridiculous comments that have no relevance to anyone here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think it is a conspiracy, but $375 for an hour or so to test and an hour to type the report is a pretty good living when you note that the kids are booked back to back 8 hours a day from Sept. through June. Some Lawyers in this town should be so lucky

Required School Admission Tests

PSAT costs $13 (2 hours)

SAT costs are a $49 (with writing) (3 to 4 hours)

ACT costs are $49.50 (with writing) (3 to 4 hours)

SSAT costs are $116 (3 hours)

WPPSI costs are $375 (1 hour)

What's the definition of a scam on the backs of 4, 5, and 6-year-old children?

All of the those other tests are taken in large groups as opposed to one of one with a licensed pysch. Also computers do most of the work on computing the results and the WPPSI results are done manually. The WPPSI is a much more labor intensive test to give and to evaluate. The SAT is $50 but there are 50 kids in the room and one person to oversee. That is about $2,500 for one afternoon of testing.

Also the other tests are usually mailed to schools and given in the schools with a school employee overseeing the test takers so there is very little overhead costs. There is very little this employee needs to do other than give basic instructions provided by the testing company. The pyschologists performing the WPPSI use their own office space and are responsible for maintaining the office (rent, computers, phone and internet bills, etc. etc.) The WPPSI test itself along with the grading materials are several thousand dollars for each new version. The pysch pays for the test from the testing company.

Give me one good reason why a $400 test with minimal prognostic value in 4 and 5 year-olds and administered by a psychologist be a mandatory requirement for admission to independent private schools in the area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think it is a conspiracy, but $375 for an hour or so to test and an hour to type the report is a pretty good living when you note that the kids are booked back to back 8 hours a day from Sept. through June. Some Lawyers in this town should be so lucky

Required School Admission Tests

PSAT costs $13 (2 hours)

SAT costs are a $49 (with writing) (3 to 4 hours)

ACT costs are $49.50 (with writing) (3 to 4 hours)

SSAT costs are $116 (3 hours)

WPPSI costs are $375 (1 hour)

What's the definition of a scam on the backs of 4, 5, and 6-year-old children?

All of the those other tests are taken in large groups as opposed to one of one with a licensed pysch. Also computers do most of the work on computing the results and the WPPSI results are done manually. The WPPSI is a much more labor intensive test to give and to evaluate. The SAT is $50 but there are 50 kids in the room and one person to oversee. That is about $2,500 for one afternoon of testing.

Also the other tests are usually mailed to schools and given in the schools with a school employee overseeing the test takers so there is very little overhead costs. There is very little this employee needs to do other than give basic instructions provided by the testing company. The pyschologists performing the WPPSI use their own office space and are responsible for maintaining the office (rent, computers, phone and internet bills, etc. etc.) The WPPSI test itself along with the grading materials are several thousand dollars for each new version. The pysch pays for the test from the testing company.

Give me one good reason why a $400 test with minimal prognostic value in 4 and 5 year-olds and administered by a psychologist be a mandatory requirement for admission to independent private schools in the area?

I never said there was a good reason. That would be a question for the schools themselves. The test was designed to be used as one tool to help evaluate educational and developmental concerns. It wasn't designed for school admissions purposes. The only time it would be appropriate to include results of this test in admissions is if it is for a school who's mission is to serve a special population that could be identified with the help of the test like LD/GT, gifted, LD, and other special education programs for children with delays, etc. who need a specific learning environment.

My point was really to say that what the psychologists charge isn't the problem. It's the same price whether you get the test done for the appropriate reason or for admissions. It is the schools that you should be questioning.

[Anonymous]

I never said there was a good reason. That would be a question for the schools themselves. The test was designed to be used as one tool to help evaluate educational and developmental concerns. It wasn't designed for school admissions purposes. The only time it would be appropriate to include results of this test in admissions is if it is for a school who's mission is to serve a special population that could be identified with the help of the test like LD/GT, gifted, LD, and other special education programs for children with delays, etc. who need a specific learning environment.

My point was really to say that what the psychologists charge isn't the problem. It's the same price whether you get the test done for the appropriate reason or for admissions. It is the schools that you should be questioning.

If there is no good reason then the mandatory requirement (rather than selective use based on signs and symptoms) for admission rule makes the $400/kid test a scam unless you believe a significant proportion of the American population have learning disorders and pathology at the ages of 4 and 5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I never said there was a good reason. That would be a question for the schools themselves. The test was designed to be used as one tool to help evaluate educational and developmental concerns. It wasn't designed for school admissions purposes. The only time it would be appropriate to include results of this test in admissions is if it is for a school who's mission is to serve a special population that could be identified with the help of the test like LD/GT, gifted, LD, and other special education programs for children with delays, etc. who need a specific learning environment.

My point was really to say that what the psychologists charge isn't the problem. It's the same price whether you get the test done for the appropriate reason or for admissions. It is the schools that you should be questioning.

If there is no good reason then the mandatory requirement (rather than selective use based on signs and symptoms) for admission rule makes the $400/kid test a scam unless you believe a significant proportion of the American population have learning disorders and pathology at the ages of 4 and 5

No the test is not a scam when it is used for the appropriate purpose. That is what you aren't getting. The private schools are using a pyschological test for reasons it wasn't designed to be used for. You need to focus on this as the problem.

I think saying that I must believe a significant proportion of kids have disorders is a leap of logic. However, I'm confident there are valid reasons to evaluate a child of 4 or 5.

[Anonymous]

No the test is not a scam when it is used for the appropriate purpose. That is what you aren't getting. The private schools are using a pyschological test for reasons it wasn't designed to be used for. You need to focus on this as the problem.

I think saying that I must believe a significant proportion of kids have disorders is a leap of logic. However, I'm confident there are valid reasons to evaluate a child of 4 or 5.

To be clear. The WPPSI used by area private schools as a mandatory requirement and tool in the admission process is a $400/child scam. This IQ test has minimal prognostic value in 4 and 5-year-olds. Therefore, what is the purpose in the admission process unless you believe a large porportion of 4 and 5 year-old kids have learning pathology and disorder. Why do the schools then make it a mandatory requirement?

By way of disclosure. My then 5-year-old scored a 99.9 percentile (Full scale = 146) on this test because it was required for admission entrance to private school. We paid $350.00 for the test at the time. We can afford it. My child did not have any signs or symptoms of a learning disorder and had a normal child development course. If the IQ test has no prognostic value why was it required by these schools in the absence of signs and symptoms of a learning disorder? The only conclusion -- a scam.

[Anonymous]

I think saying that I must believe a significant proportion of kids have disorders is a leap of logic. However, I'm confident there are valid reasons to evaluate a child of 4 or 5.

What are the valid reasons? (particularly when the IQ test has no prognostic value)

Would you mandate a total body scan ($$$) to evaluate a child of 4 or 5 in the absence of signs or symptoms of disorder, disease or pathology?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child did not have any signs or symptoms of a learning disorder and had a normal child development course. If the IQ test has no prognostic value why was it required by these schools in the absence of signs and symptoms of a learning disorder? The only conclusion -- a scam.

12:03, if you truly believe the WPPSI is only appropriately used to test for learning disorders, then that's your problem. The WPPSI is well recognized by PhD level researchers as a valid and effective tool for evaluating academic talent in children. If you think it's only for spotting learning disabilities, you ought to do some more research into it.

[Anonymous]

12:03, if you truly believe the WPPSI is only appropriately used to test for learning disorders, then that's your problem. The WPPSI is well recognized by PhD level researchers as a valid and effective tool for evaluating academic talent in children. If you think it's only for spotting learning disabilities, you ought to do some more research into it.

There are many, many, many more useful and much cheaper tests to evaluate academic talent if the schools are serious about spotting academic talent? (e.g., ERB, ISEE, SSAT, Explore, SCAT)

Doesn't require shopping for the "right" tester to spot that talent

[Anonymous]

Touche. If the schools wanted to spot academic talent above grade level assessments will identify the real deals. I guarantee the majority of scores will not cluster around the 90 and above percentiles on any of the tests mentioned. No human tester from D.C. (NW) or subjective influence to bias the results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

12:03, if you truly believe the WPPSI is only appropriately used to test for learning disorders, then that's your problem. The WPPSI is well recognized by PhD level researchers as a valid and effective tool for evaluating academic talent in children. If you think it's only for spotting learning disabilities, you ought to do some more research into it.

There are many, many, many more useful and much cheaper tests to evaluate academic talent if the schools are serious about spotting academic talent? (e.g., ERB, ISEE, SSAT, Explore, SCAT)

As someone else already noted several posts ago, most of those are group tests, not individually administered. And I don't think any of them is targeted at the same age group as the WPPSI.

I understand you're agitated over this, and I can tell no one's going to change your mind, so I don't see much point in continuing this discussion. However, I'd really suggest you do some more reading on the subject. You might be surprised at what you learn.

[Anonymous]

As someone else already noted several posts ago, most of those are group tests, not individually administered. And I don't think any of them is targeted at the same age group as the WPPSI.

I understand you're agitated over this, and I can tell no one's going to change your mind, so I don't see much point in continuing this discussion. However, I'd really suggest you do some more reading on the subject. You might be surprised at what you learn.

Do you have a problem with group testing? When your 4 or 5 year-old is in the private school is group testing inappropriate and not age appropriate? Or do you prefer a test in which parents shop for the "right' tester and "score" that at the end of the day has no prognostic worth? The tests mentioned by other posts would have significantly more worth don't you think? Those exercises are not dictated by the gender or facial hair of the tester.

Don't you think the mandatory $400/child test used for admission purposes is a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As someone else already noted several posts ago, most of those are group tests, not individually administered. And I don't think any of them is targeted at the same age group as the WPPSI.

I understand you're agitated over this, and I can tell no one's going to change your mind, so I don't see much point in continuing this discussion. However, I'd really suggest you do some more reading on the subject. You might be surprised at what you learn.

Do you have a problem with group testing? When your 4 or 5 year-old is in the private school is group testing inappropriate and not age appropriate? Or do you prefer a test in which parents shop for the "right' tester and "score" that at the end of the day has no prognostic worth? The tests mentioned by other posts would have significantly more worth don't you think? Those exercises are not dictated by the gender or facial hair of the tester.

Don't you think the mandatory $400/child test used for admission purposes is a scam?

How do you test kids that typically can't read or write in a group?