US Attacks Libya

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please NATO is a joke. The other NATO countries do not have the capability to do anything. NATO is a one side "alliance". We spend all the money and allow the Europeans to spend a fraction on their military. If the shit hits the fan, NATO will not stand with us. Indeed "NATO is not a one week deal". NATO will not last a week. Please Germany, France, etc will not come to our aid. Let them secure their own oil!

IF NATO is such a joke, then why is Russia scared of it and gets really pissed when we add certain countries to it?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:Before the invasion of Iraq, the US, Britain, and France maintained a no fly zone over northern and southern Iraq. That effort had little effect and Saddam remained a thorn in the Western side for more than a decade. To finally get rid of Saddam, the US launched an invasion that required the subsequent occupation that continues until today -- 8 years later.

So, what happens if this no fly zone fails to result in Qadafi's overthrow? Do we continue it for the next ten years? Do we launch a ground invasion? Do we occupy Libya for years to come?

Don't think for a minute that this attack has anything to do with democracy. There are currently strong opposition movements in Yemen and Bahrain. In both countries, the government has reacted violently to the peaceful protests. But, those governments -- which serve US interests -- don't have to worry about no-fly zones. To the contrary, the US Fifth Fleet is already harbored in Bahrain and standing by peacefully while Saudi troops have entered Bahrain to put down the protests. The so-called opposition leader in Libya is Qadafi's former Minister of Justice. Does anyone seriously believe that guy has an honest commitment to democracy? This war is about one thing: putting a more dependable dictator in power in Libya. Qadhafi is too erratic. His oil is too important. So, he will be replaced. The Bahraini King and the Yemeni President can go on killing their own people. They are dependable.

Does Obama's imitation of Bush mean that Bush was right? No. Bush was wrong and Obama is wrong. If anything, Obama is worse. Bush was too stupid to realize his error. Obama is smart enough to know better.

well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Before the invasion of Iraq, the US, Britain, and France maintained a no fly zone over northern and southern Iraq. That effort had little effect and Saddam remained a thorn in the Western side for more than a decade. To finally get rid of Saddam, the US launched an invasion that required the subsequent occupation that continues until today -- 8 years later.

So, what happens if this no fly zone fails to result in Qadafi's overthrow? Do we continue it for the next ten years? Do we launch a ground invasion? Do we occupy Libya for years to come?

Don't think for a minute that this attack has anything to do with democracy. There are currently strong opposition movements in Yemen and Bahrain. In both countries, the government has reacted violently to the peaceful protests. But, those governments -- which serve US interests -- don't have to worry about no-fly zones. To the contrary, the US Fifth Fleet is already harbored in Bahrain and standing by peacefully while Saudi troops have entered Bahrain to put down the protests. The so-called opposition leader in Libya is Qadafi's former Minister of Justice. Does anyone seriously believe that guy has an honest commitment to democracy? This war is about one thing: putting a more dependable dictator in power in Libya. Qadhafi is too erratic. His oil is too important. So, he will be replaced. The Bahraini King and the Yemeni President can go on killing their own people. They are dependable.

Does Obama's imitation of Bush mean that Bush was right? No. Bush was wrong and Obama is wrong. If anything, Obama is worse. Bush was too stupid to realize his error. Obama is smart enough to know better.

well said.

OBAMA clearly not that smart, the opposition has ties to Al Queda. A more dependable dictator? That is not too well thought out! It does not seem to matter what president or political leadership we have in place, they all always go down the same path and then squabble about noise.

[Anonymous]

They aren't saints, but they aren't Al Qaeda and they dob't work with Al Qaeda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
IF NATO is such a joke, then why is Russia scared of it and gets really pissed when we add certain countries to it?

we add
who is we?
I thought joining it was voluntary?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IF NATO is such a joke, then why is Russia scared of it and gets really pissed when we add certain countries to it?

we add
who is we?
I thought joining it was voluntary?

Voluntary of BOTH sides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
IF NATO is such a joke, then why is Russia scared of it and gets really pissed when we add certain countries to it?

we add
who is we?
I thought joining it was voluntary?

It is, but NATO has to invite you. It's not like Sam's Club.

"We" is the member nations. The clue should be the word "treaty" in the name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_NATO

[Anonymous]

We need a president that likes our country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need a president that likes our country.

We have a President who loves our country.

[Anonymous]

scuttlebutt is that the f15 was shot down by a friendly

[Anonymous]

WTF was that? When are we done protecting the civilians? At what point are they safe? What is Al Qaeda moves in? Hey Troops...start pretending you're dead and go AWOL ! this guy doesn't like you anyway.

[jsteele]

So, originally there was supposed to be a "no-fly zone". But, that didn't even last five minutes before it expanded to attacking the Libyan army. The last I heard, tanks don't fly but quite a few were blown up. While that seemed to have given the opposition momentum for a couple of days, they quickly lost everything they had gained and the Libyan army went on the offensive again. So today we learn that CIA agents have been deployed to Libya to figure out just who makes up the opposition. It seems like that's something we might have wanted to know before getting militarily involved. Also, we learn that Obama has apparently signed an order allowing the US to provide support to the opposition -- most likely in the form of weapons. Of course, this will require trainers and advisors. So, I guess that will mean Xe, nee Blackwater, to the rescue. Meanwhile, despite Obama's promise of no boots on the ground, a lot of boots seem to be getting on the ground.

Yep, this is going to end well.

[jsteele]

Well, its now July 29 and we have been fighting in Libya since March 19. I guess we should have things just about wrapped up by now, don't you think?

Um, actually, no.

Yesterday the death of the military commander of the opposition forces was announced. I say "announced" because it is not clear when he was actually killed. Nor is it clear who actually killed him. What is known is that he had been called back to Benghazi by the head of the opposition government and opposition forces had surrounded his home in Benghazi. Now all kinds of blame is being thrown around. This underlines that fact that NATO has never really understood just who makes up the opposition and has no way of knowing how that opposition will rule. But, given the likelihood that the current opposition leadership is willing to kill its top general, I wouldn't hold out much hope for their democratic tendencies.

NATO was authorized to protect civilians. In the process, it has killed an unknown number of civilians. Human Rights groups have charged the opposition with many of the same violations of which the Libyan government was accused. The opposition is routinely shown on TV shelling villages with inaccurate Grad rockets -- likely causing significant civilian casualties. Meanwhile, the US is facing economic catastrophie due to the debt ceiling while happily spending millions in support of the war effort.

Of course, nobody could have predicted...

[Anonymous]

Nato is looking after its own interests. i.e. oil
In other words the interest of America. The member nations are just subjects. A lot of them would be better off not taking part in fights America starts.
But no need to worry. We will run out of money

[Anonymous]

Good God. Obama is worse than Bush.