Is there a MoCo equivalent to Duke Ellington School for the Arts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but your kid can apply to Duke Ellington and could be accepted as an out of District resident. You’d have to pay tuition though, or move to DC.

Nothing MCPS has compares with that. But I also know from parents at Duke Ellington that the academics aren’t great, so you’d be giving up quite a bit to have your kid attend it.

I know students this year going from Duke to Yale, Hopkins and Smith.

Not saying this is across the board - but I think it might be improving

That is definitely not the norm. People in DC whose kids are serious about academics generally avoid Duke Ellington even when they are very talented.

They are probably going for arts, not academics. Most of the talented kids do outside Mcps. YAA, MCYO, PVYO, etc.

Agree. Those who are serious about academics go with a stronger school and do arts outside of school. Duke Ellington is good for those who are serious about arts but not academics.

Yeah, that's not true at all. MOST art students are actually very passionate about their art AND academics as well. MOST students want a school that excels in both. They shouldn't have to choose and they aren't doing that at Duke Ellington, but please pretend you know more about this.

Duke Ellington is rigorous. PP knows nothing, for sure.

Hello! Former Duke Ellington and Einstein parent here.

My oldest graduated from Duke Ellington in 2013. My family then moved to the Kensington/Bethesda area in 2019, and my second child went to Einstein.It’s true that Einstein doesn’t hold up to Duke Ellington in some disciplines of the arts, but I would not say that the academics at Ellington are better than Einstein. I will never forget when my oldest told me that a lot of her peers had a hard time reading simple passages during her freshman year. DCPS was a nightmare to deal with, and it was actually one of the reasons we left the district.I think it’s unfair to compare Einstein to Ellington simply because Ellington can afford its staff and facilities through both government funding and paid partnerships. The arts are not cheap, and Ellington kids get much more training throughout the school day. Even then, my daughter still had to do training outside of school because her teachers strongly encouraged it.

My son went to Einstein, and we loved it. Yes, he did training after school, but he most likely would have had to do that even if he had gotten into Ellington. I know this might be an unpopular opinion that gets downvoted, but I was very impressed by Einstein's academics (both AP and IB). They have a lot to offer that Ellington simply didn't.

I also liked how seriously Einstein took the VAPA program. They have a dedicated website, an orientation video of the program, and everything.Neither school is a bad choice for the arts, but we will be sending my youngest to Einstein. If Einstein parents want a stronger VAPA program or more courses, the key is seeking out extra funding.

Maybe a Facebook booster group should be created to get that started!

This was very insightful! Thank you. We could be working with the academy head and see what steps we can take to find additional funding.

Einstein probably has much stronger academics than Ellington. However, things have changed since 2019 and many AP and other classes have been removed and the course offerings are limited. The students are forced to go to MC, which is an issue with schedules and after-school activities, and classes that also meet after school. Many kids are forced to drop activities and sports in their junior and senior years to go to MC. The parents who talk about things from 5+ years ago are not giving an accurate picture of what is going on now. Einstein could be a great school and if they improved the academic offerings more of the smarter kids in the area would stay, which would help.

I have a junior at Einstein and am interested in what APs have been cut since 2019? Just the sciences? My kid takes IB science which is frustrating scheduling wise because it’s a two year course, but it’s not less rigorous. I’m not aware of any juniors leaving Einstein for advanced academics at MC, or planning on it senior year. My VAPA kid and most of their friends take 4 AP/IB level courses at a time. I do agree the principal is uninspiring but the teachers are great and we’ve found the general vibe of the school very warm and vibrant.

Most of the teachers are great and try hard. A few are ok, but that’s at any school. There are no ap science classes, no ap music, etc. There is only the bare minimum for engineering and computer science so many of those kids leave for Wheaton or Blair. My kids will not do the two year IB classes as it conflicts with other things. There are a few juniors this year who do it and many more seniors. Dual enrollment is more common for seniors especially when you only need Math and English. The kids who do it generally drop out of the arts to do it, which is where the problem comes in as they are forced to choose academics over arts and they should be able to do both all four years. It’s more common with the music vs theatre students to drop out especially with marching band as many of the classes are in the evenings. You can do some during the day but you are required to take morning classes at school so that limits what is offered in the afternoon. There are a lot of great people and things going on at Einstein and with more effort and the principal listening to families, staff and students it could be a really great school meeting all students needs. Many of the current teachers could teach the ap classes needed as well as other higher level classes. There are some really smart and capable teachers who are not being used to their potential. Some of the new teachers this year are really good.

Some kids do better with the structure of IB, especially humanities, but others do better with ap. There is no reason not to offer both.

They used to offer both AP and IB science. They didn't get enough students signing up to justify having both classes, so they kept the IB classes, because they're an IB school and need to offer them.

If they’re an “IB school”, why don’t they offer pre-IB courses in grades 9 and 10 like other IB schools? My kid has been SO bored in Honors for all English class where they spend more time watching videos at 75% speed than reading and writing.

They used to until a few years ago, but apparently central office told them they're only authorized to offer IB classes in 11th and 12th. 9th and 10th grades are considered part of the IB Middle Years Programme, which isn't at Einstein.

Then drop the IB sham and go to ap. Or, let kids transfer to get their needs met once they realize the academics are an issue.

Then why are Springbrook and other “IB schools” allowed to offer pre-IB courses in grade 9? The there’s Wheaton which requires a special English class for any 9h grader taking APUSH. Einstein is at the bottom!

The more controlling parents who run everything are ok with the status quo’s or they get shut down. An English apush class makes sense. The principal is holding back the school.

The PTSA recruits every year and still has openings. I’m not sure the people running everything are doing so by choice. Unless you mean VAPA parents?

Key positions are full.

Key are full after a lot of advertising, recruiting, and begging. It also doesn’t matter what position you take since any position gives full inclusion to all meetings. I haven’t done Einstein PTSA but I know enough people who have and would not say they are controlling or even necessarily happy with the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, but your kid can apply to Duke Ellington and could be accepted as an out of District resident. You’d have to pay tuition though, or move to DC.

Nothing MCPS has compares with that. But I also know from parents at Duke Ellington that the academics aren’t great, so you’d be giving up quite a bit to have your kid attend it.

I know students this year going from Duke to Yale, Hopkins and Smith.

Not saying this is across the board - but I think it might be improving

That is definitely not the norm. People in DC whose kids are serious about academics generally avoid Duke Ellington even when they are very talented.

They are probably going for arts, not academics. Most of the talented kids do outside Mcps. YAA, MCYO, PVYO, etc.

Agree. Those who are serious about academics go with a stronger school and do arts outside of school. Duke Ellington is good for those who are serious about arts but not academics.

Yeah, that's not true at all. MOST art students are actually very passionate about their art AND academics as well. MOST students want a school that excels in both. They shouldn't have to choose and they aren't doing that at Duke Ellington, but please pretend you know more about this.

Duke Ellington is rigorous. PP knows nothing, for sure.

Hello! Former Duke Ellington and Einstein parent here.

My oldest graduated from Duke Ellington in 2013. My family then moved to the Kensington/Bethesda area in 2019, and my second child went to Einstein.It’s true that Einstein doesn’t hold up to Duke Ellington in some disciplines of the arts, but I would not say that the academics at Ellington are better than Einstein. I will never forget when my oldest told me that a lot of her peers had a hard time reading simple passages during her freshman year. DCPS was a nightmare to deal with, and it was actually one of the reasons we left the district.I think it’s unfair to compare Einstein to Ellington simply because Ellington can afford its staff and facilities through both government funding and paid partnerships. The arts are not cheap, and Ellington kids get much more training throughout the school day. Even then, my daughter still had to do training outside of school because her teachers strongly encouraged it.

My son went to Einstein, and we loved it. Yes, he did training after school, but he most likely would have had to do that even if he had gotten into Ellington. I know this might be an unpopular opinion that gets downvoted, but I was very impressed by Einstein's academics (both AP and IB). They have a lot to offer that Ellington simply didn't.

I also liked how seriously Einstein took the VAPA program. They have a dedicated website, an orientation video of the program, and everything.Neither school is a bad choice for the arts, but we will be sending my youngest to Einstein. If Einstein parents want a stronger VAPA program or more courses, the key is seeking out extra funding.

Maybe a Facebook booster group should be created to get that started!

This was very insightful! Thank you. We could be working with the academy head and see what steps we can take to find additional funding.

Einstein probably has much stronger academics than Ellington. However, things have changed since 2019 and many AP and other classes have been removed and the course offerings are limited. The students are forced to go to MC, which is an issue with schedules and after-school activities, and classes that also meet after school. Many kids are forced to drop activities and sports in their junior and senior years to go to MC. The parents who talk about things from 5+ years ago are not giving an accurate picture of what is going on now. Einstein could be a great school and if they improved the academic offerings more of the smarter kids in the area would stay, which would help.

I have a junior at Einstein and am interested in what APs have been cut since 2019? Just the sciences? My kid takes IB science which is frustrating scheduling wise because it’s a two year course, but it’s not less rigorous. I’m not aware of any juniors leaving Einstein for advanced academics at MC, or planning on it senior year. My VAPA kid and most of their friends take 4 AP/IB level courses at a time. I do agree the principal is uninspiring but the teachers are great and we’ve found the general vibe of the school very warm and vibrant.

Most of the teachers are great and try hard. A few are ok, but that’s at any school. There are no ap science classes, no ap music, etc. There is only the bare minimum for engineering and computer science so many of those kids leave for Wheaton or Blair. My kids will not do the two year IB classes as it conflicts with other things. There are a few juniors this year who do it and many more seniors. Dual enrollment is more common for seniors especially when you only need Math and English. The kids who do it generally drop out of the arts to do it, which is where the problem comes in as they are forced to choose academics over arts and they should be able to do both all four years. It’s more common with the music vs theatre students to drop out especially with marching band as many of the classes are in the evenings. You can do some during the day but you are required to take morning classes at school so that limits what is offered in the afternoon. There are a lot of great people and things going on at Einstein and with more effort and the principal listening to families, staff and students it could be a really great school meeting all students needs. Many of the current teachers could teach the ap classes needed as well as other higher level classes. There are some really smart and capable teachers who are not being used to their potential. Some of the new teachers this year are really good.

Some kids do better with the structure of IB, especially humanities, but others do better with ap. There is no reason not to offer both.

They used to offer both AP and IB science. They didn't get enough students signing up to justify having both classes, so they kept the IB classes, because they're an IB school and need to offer them.

So ultimately a medical regional program will fail. I hate that the principal is fighting this.

Einstein kids choose the schoo for the Perfirming arts. They don’t want a medical program. They can do that at Edison or MC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's to the level you're describing/hoping for but from what I gathered, Northwood HS was the Arts option for the Downcounty Consortium (DCC):

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/school-info/downcounty/northwood/

The Academy of Music, Theater and Dance (AMTAD)

This academy is geared toward students interested in pursuing college and professional careers in the areas of theater, dance, vocal music, and instrumental music. In either solo or group performances, students will produce, act, and perform in a variety of onstage productions. Coursework within the academy is designed to develop the student through the dance and performing arts pathways with focus on technical production, vocal and instrumental music, dance, and dramatics. Students in all academy strands will be integrally involved in all aspects of production, giving students a solid foundation for advanced preparation within the field. The Dance Pathway gives students a strong background in multiple dance styles such as Jazz, Modern, and Ballet. This pathway also provides opportunities for master classes, field trips and choreographic development. The Performing Arts Pathway gives students a strong background in multiple disciplines. Students in this pathway have the opportunity to take a variety of classes in the performing arts field, such as band, chorus, dance and theatre. Students also have the opportunity to focus solely on one discipline.

Honestly, it’s hard to see Northwood getting the theater or dance programs when Einstein’s are just stronger. Without extra funding, it makes way more sense to give Einstein all the regional arts programs, just like Blake and Woodward. Hopefully, Einstein PACE is already talking about advocating for this.

These are arts programs on paper only as none of the schools are getting more staff or funding specifically for the arts. All schools should have strong arts, humanities and stem.

No one is denying this. However, this is what’s on the table. Einstein has built a strong arts program with what they have. To keep Einstein in the conversation, they should retain what they’ve built.

Look, with the DCC being disbanded, the whole game changes. If Einstein doesn’t get the regional arts designation, they just have to double down on their own turf. They can use the VAC’s and S.T.A.G.E reputation to carry the rest of the arts programs and basically build a 'shadow magnet' culture. They can make VAPA an elite audition base PA program within its own school. That way, their public product stays so sharp that a brand-new regional program at Northwood or Woodward won't even be able to compete.

If Einstein parents organized, gathered application-interest data, collected alumni success stories, and showed strong community support, they could absolutely put this on MCPS's radar. The odds of getting some expansion of VAPA are significantly better, maybe we can also incorporate IB into VAPA.

The Einstein MCCPTA report is excellent and tried to get parents to advocate against the program study, but she was often alone in things like testifying at BOE meetings.

The PTSA principal claimed I was the first parent to complain to her about the school! She admitted she isn’t even on the PTSA FB group where parents often comment on posts sharing that these issues have been going on for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think it's to the level you're describing/hoping for but from what I gathered, Northwood HS was the Arts option for the Downcounty Consortium (DCC):

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/school-info/downcounty/northwood/

The Academy of Music, Theater and Dance (AMTAD)

This academy is geared toward students interested in pursuing college and professional careers in the areas of theater, dance, vocal music, and instrumental music. In either solo or group performances, students will produce, act, and perform in a variety of onstage productions. Coursework within the academy is designed to develop the student through the dance and performing arts pathways with focus on technical production, vocal and instrumental music, dance, and dramatics. Students in all academy strands will be integrally involved in all aspects of production, giving students a solid foundation for advanced preparation within the field. The Dance Pathway gives students a strong background in multiple dance styles such as Jazz, Modern, and Ballet. This pathway also provides opportunities for master classes, field trips and choreographic development. The Performing Arts Pathway gives students a strong background in multiple disciplines. Students in this pathway have the opportunity to take a variety of classes in the performing arts field, such as band, chorus, dance and theatre. Students also have the opportunity to focus solely on one discipline.

Honestly, it’s hard to see Northwood getting the theater or dance programs when Einstein’s are just stronger. Without extra funding, it makes way more sense to give Einstein all the regional arts programs, just like Blake and Woodward. Hopefully, Einstein PACE is already talking about advocating for this.

These are arts programs on paper only as none of the schools are getting more staff or funding specifically for the arts. All schools should have strong arts, humanities and stem.

No one is denying this. However, this is what’s on the table. Einstein has built a strong arts program with what they have. To keep Einstein in the conversation, they should retain what they’ve built.

Look, with the DCC being disbanded, the whole game changes. If Einstein doesn’t get the regional arts designation, they just have to double down on their own turf. They can use the VAC’s and S.T.A.G.E reputation to carry the rest of the arts programs and basically build a 'shadow magnet' culture. They can make VAPA an elite audition base PA program within its own school. That way, their public product stays so sharp that a brand-new regional program at Northwood or Woodward won't even be able to compete.

If Einstein parents organized, gathered application-interest data, collected alumni success stories, and showed strong community support, they could absolutely put this on MCPS's radar. The odds of getting some expansion of VAPA are significantly better, maybe we can also incorporate IB into VAPA.

The Einstein MCCPTA report is excellent and tried to get parents to advocate against the program study, but she was often alone in things like testifying at BOE meetings.

The PTSA principal claimed I was the first parent to complain to her about the school! She admitted she isn’t even on the PTSA FB group where parents often comment on posts sharing that these issues have been going on for years.

The problem is a lot of the more academic kids go to Blair and Wheaton for Stem so there isn’t a huge amount of parents pushing for Stem. And, there are some high level arts kids but many don’t realize what is lacking as there are only a small amount of arts kids in the higher level outside programs. It’s the same crew running all the groups for years and most never have done anything but the minimum for show. The one parent did an amazing job at advocacy but the principal either ignores the concerns or dismisses them. He’s not responsive to parents or students and same with the staff which is why some are leaving this year. He refuses to consider all the students needs. One of the APs is downright hostile toward students taking AP classes but thank goodness she’s leaving. The new 9th grade AP is amazing. I wish he were the principal or bring back the one who was acting last year as he did a great job.

You are not the first or only parent to complain. It’s a good school but with some small changes it could be a great school. So many good teachers and students and they just need to be supported better and provided with what they need and want.

With the region program, I suspect if families cannot get into Blair, some, including us will leave MCPS. I’m not even sure how to make Blair work with transportation as we couldn’t for our oldest.

The PTSA president is very aware but if their kids needs are met they don’t care. Some of the more outspoken parents kids have graduated this year so hopefully new parents will step up more.