Ivy worth full pay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is strange to me, I have a stem kid at Brown who absolutely loves it and the student body is a very happy one. They are also not elitist. Seems like it was a bad fit, mine definitely would not like UF or similar. Tough pill to swallow I’m sure at full-price.

I agree, DC at a different ivy has a few Stem friends at Brown and they are well adjusted, most on some type of aid, not elitist.
Most kids at ivies or similar especially stem kids would hate UF and all similar schools, not due to elitism, due to peer mismatch.
I wonder if PP is trolling. It makes no sense to say the kid hated ivy and should have transferred, then why didn't they?

I went to HYP and I would have been miserable at Florida. It was 100 worth full pay for the peer group alone. I have never been with such a remarkably talented group of people and never will be again. Would I have gotten a decent education elsewhere? Probably. Would I still be successful? Probably?

Would I be the person I am today without the Ivy? Very hard to tell.

Would I absolutely pay for the Ivy again? You bet I would.

[Anonymous]

No. Please don’t apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

And your kid couldn’t have decided this before applying to the ivy? Just weird…

I still can't believe op's kid could have gone to H/Y/P and instead is getting a Florida degree. Just a complete waste.

I think I raised him well enough to be able to make his own decisions in life. His reasoning is that if he has what it takes to get accepted into HYP, then he can also succeed at UF. He may fail at UF, and he may also fail at HYP. At least if he fails at UF, he’ll still have several million dollars in the bank, versus nothing at HYP.

FWIW, he already wears a T-shirt that says, “I turned down HYP to attend the Gators for several million dollars.”

Smart kid because the AI job decline is real and HYP won't matter.

In a down job market, the better schools are always an advantage.
In AI, the jobs being taken over are entry level jobs that above-average university students used to get. The jobs that ivy grads tend to get are a couple levels above that and require thinking and processing that AI cannot do. Ivy and ivy+ (add 8-10 top privates that are not ivy) will have a larger advantage than they do now, over the typical T50-100 school. MBB and top tech recruiting on campus at ivy and other target schools was way up this year. Top schools have made industry partnerships and solicited private donations to make sure their students can continue to have advantages despite the federal funding fiasco.

UF has zero pathways to such jobs even for the very top student, never mind the significantly lowered path to top Med/phd/law.
hundreds of thousands or even a million in the bank at age 50 due to saving on undergrad will never make up for the opportunity cost of not having a shot at a top job. Who wants a lot of money to sit on and a boring job that does not use your brain and is not respected?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

And your kid couldn’t have decided this before applying to the ivy? Just weird…

I still can't believe op's kid could have gone to H/Y/P and instead is getting a Florida degree. Just a complete waste.

I think I raised him well enough to be able to make his own decisions in life. His reasoning is that if he has what it takes to get accepted into HYP, then he can also succeed at UF. He may fail at UF, and he may also fail at HYP. At least if he fails at UF, he’ll still have several million dollars in the bank, versus nothing at HYP.

FWIW, he already wears a T-shirt that says, “I turned down HYP to attend the Gators for several million dollars.”

Smart kid because the AI job decline is real and HYP won't matter.

In a down job market, the better schools are always an advantage.
In AI, the jobs being taken over are entry level jobs that above-average university students used to get. The jobs that ivy grads tend to get are a couple levels above that and require thinking and processing that AI cannot do. Ivy and ivy+ (add 8-10 top privates that are not ivy) will have a larger advantage than they do now, over the typical T50-100 school. MBB and top tech recruiting on campus at ivy and other target schools was way up this year. Top schools have made industry partnerships and solicited private donations to make sure their students can continue to have advantages despite the federal funding fiasco.

UF has zero pathways to such jobs even for the very top student, never mind the significantly lowered path to top Med/phd/law.
hundreds of thousands or even a million in the bank at age 50 due to saving on undergrad will never make up for the opportunity cost of not having a shot at a top job. Who wants a lot of money to sit on and a boring job that does not use your brain and is not respected?

Blah blah blah. You're describing a very narrow and very specific trajectory that most HYP kids don't even do. Nor is the real world as rigid as you like to think.

High aptitude and capabilities make themselves known regardless of where the person went to college. If OP's kid has a talent for making money, it will be found out.

FYI no one knew who Brian Thompson was before Luigi Mangione (UPenn) assassinated him, but he was making a million a year plus stock options, total up to 10 million. Where did he go to college? Iowa. I only illustrate this to show the real world is filled with so many anonymous yet very successful people who didn't need a HYP degree.

-- double Ivy grad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

And your kid couldn’t have decided this before applying to the ivy? Just weird…

I still can't believe op's kid could have gone to H/Y/P and instead is getting a Florida degree. Just a complete waste.

I think I raised him well enough to be able to make his own decisions in life. His reasoning is that if he has what it takes to get accepted into HYP, then he can also succeed at UF. He may fail at UF, and he may also fail at HYP. At least if he fails at UF, he’ll still have several million dollars in the bank, versus nothing at HYP.

FWIW, he already wears a T-shirt that says, “I turned down HYP to attend the Gators for several million dollars.”

I understand that finances are importanr but Inwouldn’t want my kid to walk around wearing this obnoxious t-shirt.

As previously posted, the Ivies- and other elite schools have a higher caliber of students and more diverse networks and better resources. Some things can’t be easily quantified.

There are many people in my McLean neighborhood who attended state universities. There are also people in the neighborhood who attended HYPS. In this expensive neighborhood, where homes are in the $3M+ range, people who attended UVA or Virginia Tech seem to live in more expensive homes than those who attended HYPS.

Three of my neighbors attended HYPS, and they are college professors at GMU, Georgetown, and George Washington University. They live in smaller houses and earn at least five times less than I do. They cannot even afford to send their kids to private schools.

I graduated from Iowa State University, went into FinTech, and made a lot of money. I am not saying money is everything, but the vast majority of people who attended HYPS have the same outcomes as people who attended UVA or Virginia Tech. As a previous poster stated, if you can get accepted into HYPS but decide to attend UF, UVA, or Virginia Tech, you will likely succeed regardless of where you attend.

[Anonymous]

Those getting in to HYP now are getting in for reasons that most companies do not care about like DEI or community service. A HYP graduate doesn't exactly translate well in to truly wealthy career success. They might make great professors, doctors, or lawyers. I know a few good social workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those getting in to HYP now are getting in for reasons that most companies do not care about like DEI or community service. A HYP graduate doesn't exactly translate well in to truly wealthy career success. They might make great professors, doctors, or lawyers. I know a few good social workers.

Keep being you DCUM.

Only on DCUM are doctors and lawyers not considered wealthy despite making 250-600k per year each and are usually in dual-income households thus 500-1.2mil HHI. Even professors at top schools, which heavily prefer ivy and the like, make 200-300k which is not poor.

Many top-1% smarts students, who are highly concentrated at the ivies/JHU/MIT/Stanford, want to be a doctor or lawyer or professor or other job requiring phD. They choose for the intellectual challenge of the job and/or the calling. They want a job that requires smarts. They know they will make plenty and are not solely concerned with money over all else.

Plus since when does one evaluate wealth based on the size of the house? The smartest rich people do not need to put it on display in a house, they would rather have a great but reasonable house (1-1.8mil in DMV not 3 mil) and have enough for private K-12 and private college, plus save for retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those getting in to HYP now are getting in for reasons that most companies do not care about like DEI or community service. A HYP graduate doesn't exactly translate well in to truly wealthy career success. They might make great professors, doctors, or lawyers. I know a few good social workers.

Keep being you DCUM.

Only on DCUM are doctors and lawyers not considered wealthy despite making 250-600k per year each and are usually in dual-income households thus 500-1.2mil HHI. Even professors at top schools, which heavily prefer ivy and the like, make 200-300k which is not poor.

Many top-1% smarts students, who are highly concentrated at the ivies/JHU/MIT/Stanford, want to be a doctor or lawyer or professor or other job requiring phD. They choose for the intellectual challenge of the job and/or the calling. They want a job that requires smarts. They know they will make plenty and are not solely concerned with money over all else.

Plus since when does one evaluate wealth based on the size of the house? The smartest rich people do not need to put it on display in a house, [b]they would rather have a great but reasonable house (1-1.8mil in DMV not 3 mil) and have enough for private K-12 and private college, plus save for retirement.

Please show me a "1M great but reasonable house" in the 22101 zip code.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

And your kid couldn’t have decided this before applying to the ivy? Just weird…

I still can't believe op's kid could have gone to H/Y/P and instead is getting a Florida degree. Just a complete waste.

I think I raised him well enough to be able to make his own decisions in life. His reasoning is that if he has what it takes to get accepted into HYP, then he can also succeed at UF. He may fail at UF, and he may also fail at HYP. At least if he fails at UF, he’ll still have several million dollars in the bank, versus nothing at HYP.

FWIW, he already wears a T-shirt that says, “I turned down HYP to attend the Gators for several million dollars.”

Smart kid because the AI job decline is real and HYP won't matter.

In a down job market, the better schools are always an advantage.
In AI, the jobs being taken over are entry level jobs that above-average university students used to get. The jobs that ivy grads tend to get are a couple levels above that and require thinking and processing that AI cannot do. Ivy and ivy+ (add 8-10 top privates that are not ivy) will have a larger advantage than they do now, over the typical T50-100 school. MBB and top tech recruiting on campus at ivy and other target schools was way up this year. Top schools have made industry partnerships and solicited private donations to make sure their students can continue to have advantages despite the federal funding fiasco.

UF has zero pathways to such jobs even for the very top student, never mind the significantly lowered path to top Med/phd/law.
hundreds of thousands or even a million in the bank at age 50 due to saving on undergrad will never make up for the opportunity cost of not having a shot at a top job. Who wants a lot of money to sit on and a boring job that does not use your brain and is not respected?

Blah blah blah. You're describing a very narrow and very specific trajectory that most HYP kids don't even do. Nor is the real world as rigid as you like to think.

High aptitude and capabilities make themselves known regardless of where the person went to college. If OP's kid has a talent for making money, it will be found out.

FYI no one knew who Brian Thompson was before Luigi Mangione (UPenn) assassinated him, but he was making a million a year plus stock options, total up to 10 million. Where did he go to college? Iowa. I only illustrate this to show the real world is filled with so many anonymous yet very successful people who didn't need a HYP degree.

-- double Ivy grad.

Innate talent? Sure. But business majors at UFlorida have the highest concentration of online classes due to popularity. There are many colleges, public or private, that offer kids a better learning environment than UFlorida because they have real professors teaching live to relatively small groups of students. People are critiquing the Florida experience in particular, not all public colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those getting in to HYP now are getting in for reasons that most companies do not care about like DEI or community service. A HYP graduate doesn't exactly translate well in to truly wealthy career success. They might make great professors, doctors, or lawyers. I know a few good social workers.

Skipped this one because obvious sour grapes. Sorry your kid wasn’t admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those getting in to HYP now are getting in for reasons that most companies do not care about like DEI or community service. A HYP graduate doesn't exactly translate well in to truly wealthy career success. They might make great professors, doctors, or lawyers. I know a few good social workers.

Keep being you DCUM.

Only on DCUM are doctors and lawyers not considered wealthy despite making 250-600k per year each and are usually in dual-income households thus 500-1.2mil HHI. Even professors at top schools, which heavily prefer ivy and the like, make 200-300k which is not poor.

Many top-1% smarts students, who are highly concentrated at the ivies/JHU/MIT/Stanford, want to be a doctor or lawyer or professor or other job requiring phD. They choose for the intellectual challenge of the job and/or the calling. They want a job that requires smarts. They know they will make plenty and are not solely concerned with money over all else.

Plus since when does one evaluate wealth based on the size of the house? The smartest rich people do not need to put it on display in a house, they would rather have a great but reasonable house (1-1.8mil in DMV not 3 mil) and have enough for private K-12 and private college, plus save for retirement.

You can equally say only on DCUM are you locked out of success and wealth if you didn't go to an Ivy. In the real world the vast majority of the top 1%, including the vast majority of genuinely rich people, did not go to the Ivies. Which I believe was the point.

[Anonymous]

This really depends on the ivy, the program and your kid's career aspirations. For finance? Absolutely because undergrad prestige matters. For law and medicine, I'd save the cash for the post-grad program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

let's see what he thinks of his decision later.

i was full pay at HYP. no regrets!

PP here. Did you fully read what I wrote before commenting? DS older brother paid full tuition at HYP and regretted the decision.

Yes I read it. Did you miss that I am a HYP grad with a lot more career years behind me than your son, and I disagree with him? I would never advise anyone to go to U Florida over an Ivy unless the Ivy was truly unaffordable.

I'm an Ivy graduate (double) and knew several people back in my day 30 years ago who turned down Ivies for much cheaper schools and all have done extremely well. I also know plenty who went to the Ivies and have done no better than had they gone to their flagships, ending up in nice UMC lives but not elite. And I also know people who went to Ivies who effectively failed to take off in life. There's more than you'd think.

The percent of Ivy, even HYP, grads who go on to elite outcomes is small, a minority of all HYP graduates.

UF is a pretty good state university. At one time I'd have agreed HYP and the other Ivies would offer better overall educational experience, but that's much more subjective these days, it is probably much easier to graduate from HYP with a mediocre to useless education nowadays. A bright kid can absolutely get a great education at a big flagship.

But we aren’t talking about Cornell or Columbia. I attended a T10 college and T5 Ivy law school. The names alone have opened many doors for me. I did not attend Harvard but my spouse did. Take a look at the red books, you significantly underestimate the number of graduates with elite outcomes.

Florida has an ok reputation but because it provides free tuition to so many, is significantly underresourced and heavily relies on online classes. There are other schools that offer a high quality education beyond the elite universities. Florida just isn’t one of them.

There are studies that show the majority of CEOs went to regular state universities.

So what? There are literally millions more graduates of state universities. Now do presidents and Supreme Court justices.

The odds of becoming a supreme court justice, even from an ivy, are laughable.

That is not the argument you think it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

let's see what he thinks of his decision later.

i was full pay at HYP. no regrets!

PP here. Did you fully read what I wrote before commenting? DS older brother paid full tuition at HYP and regretted the decision.

It sounds like your entire family has bad judgment. Passing on H/Y/P for Florida, however, borders on criminally bad decision making. But here you are bragging about it.

DCUM never disappoints. WTF...

Having the money to send kid to an Ivy and instead sending to a school known for heavily relying on online classes is truly
a WTF decision.

Your ignorance shows. UF is an excellent school.

They have online classes, and they don't do a lot of work. A lot of smart kids go there, but I think it is a lot like the public school system in america. You can get a great education, but you need to seek out opportunities. I think at the ivies, there is a lot of peer pressure to do work, and challenge yourself. Go and look at the downtown bar scene on a thursday night at UF vs. Yale. It is a different learning environment.

Harcard has online degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS got accepted to one of the Ivies—think Princeton, Yale, or Harvard—but we would have had to pay the full cost, around $100K per year. He also got accepted to University of Florida with a full ride (tuition plus room and board).

We told him that he could attend UF and have $400K+ (depending on investment growth) waiting for him at graduation, or he could attend the Ivy. Seven years earlier, one of his older brothers had been in the exact same situation and chose to attend an Ivy League school, which he later regretted. His $300K could have grown into several million dollars. We’re not wealthy, so while money isn’t everything, it’s important to be able to live a stress-free life.

My older DS advised his younger brother to take the $400K and attend UF, and he did. He’ll be a freshman at UF in a few months.

YMMV.

let's see what he thinks of his decision later.

i was full pay at HYP. no regrets!

PP here. Did you fully read what I wrote before commenting? DS older brother paid full tuition at HYP and regretted the decision.

It sounds like your entire family has bad judgment. Passing on H/Y/P for Florida, however, borders on criminally bad decision making. But here you are bragging about it.

DCUM never disappoints. WTF...

Having the money to send kid to an Ivy and instead sending to a school known for heavily relying on online classes is truly
a WTF decision.

Your ignorance shows. UF is an excellent school.

They have online classes, and they don't do a lot of work. A lot of smart kids go there, but I think it is a lot like the public school system in america. You can get a great education, but you need to seek out opportunities. I think at the ivies, there is a lot of peer pressure to do work, and challenge yourself. Go and look at the downtown bar scene on a thursday night at UF vs. Yale. It is a different learning environment.

Harvard has online degrees.