Is anyone happy with MCPS?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

Even at Whitman, one out of five White kids graduate not proficient in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

Even at Whitman, one out of five White kids graduate not proficient in math.

We've been down this rabbithole in other threads.

For high school math, you have to see what test is administered and looking at mdreportcard for Whitman, it says only 18.5 percent White students are proficient in Math. But when you look at the list of tests, Algebra 1 is the only test listed. So it's unlikely they tested in Algebra 2.

And it was already mentioned in other threads, students who are taking/retaking Algebra 1 in high school, likely aren't the higher performing students and more likely to not do well in the state assessment for it.

So Algebra 1 is not really a good indicator for math proficiency for high schools.

It's a bit more relevant for middle schools. So if you look at the population for Pyle, the proficiency level for Whites in Algebra 1 is 80.3 percent and should be a more accurate representation of students on a more on level track. Where this group can be a mix of 6 to 8th graders.

So again, this takes digging. It's not just "oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test, so it's okayif my kid didn't do well too" You have to understand what groups take the classes and assessments when and what are their likely/expected outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

Which AP English, Lang or Lit? They operate differently.

I don’t even think the poster has a kid at MCPS. Just seems to want to complain about being forced to learn “critical race theory” which is how the person characterizes Ellison’s Invisible Man, i.e. a major work of literature by a black author.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

Even at Whitman, one out of five White kids graduate not proficient in math.

We've been down this rabbithole in other threads.

For high school math, you have to see what test is administered and looking at mdreportcard for Whitman, it says only 18.5 percent White students are proficient in Math. But when you look at the list of tests, Algebra 1 is the only test listed. So it's unlikely they tested in Algebra 2.

And it was already mentioned in other threads, students who are taking/retaking Algebra 1 in high school, likely aren't the higher performing students and more likely to not do well in the state assessment for it.

So Algebra 1 is not really a good indicator for math proficiency for high schools.

It's a bit more relevant for middle schools. So if you look at the population for Pyle, the proficiency level for Whites in Algebra 1 is 80.3 percent and should be a more accurate representation of students on a more on level track. Where this group can be a mix of 6 to 8th graders.

So again, this takes digging. It's not just "oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test, so it's okayif my kid didn't do well too" You have to understand what groups take the classes and assessments when and what are their likely/expected outcomes.

Good nuance and context. This is helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

Even at Whitman, one out of five White kids graduate not proficient in math.

We've been down this rabbithole in other threads.

For high school math, you have to see what test is administered and looking at mdreportcard for Whitman, it says only 18.5 percent White students are proficient in Math. But when you look at the list of tests, Algebra 1 is the only test listed. So it's unlikely they tested in Algebra 2.

And it was already mentioned in other threads, students who are taking/retaking Algebra 1 in high school, likely aren't the higher performing students and more likely to not do well in the state assessment for it.

So Algebra 1 is not really a good indicator for math proficiency for high schools.

It's a bit more relevant for middle schools. So if you look at the population for Pyle, the proficiency level for Whites in Algebra 1 is 80.3 percent and should be a more accurate representation of students on a more on level track. Where this group can be a mix of 6 to 8th graders.

So again, this takes digging. It's not just "oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test, so it's okayif my kid didn't do well too" You have to understand what groups take the classes and assessments when and what are their likely/expected outcomes.

I didn't say anything remotely related to ""oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test" so I'm not sure why you put that in quotes.
I looked at the rates for graduates that are listed in the MD report card for Whitman. That showed about 80% of White graduating seniors were proficient in math. Sounds like that matches up with the Pyle test results. In both cases, 1 out of 5 White students are not proficient in math. That's not awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

Even at Whitman, one out of five White kids graduate not proficient in math.

We've been down this rabbithole in other threads.

For high school math, you have to see what test is administered and looking at mdreportcard for Whitman, it says only 18.5 percent White students are proficient in Math. But when you look at the list of tests, Algebra 1 is the only test listed. So it's unlikely they tested in Algebra 2.

And it was already mentioned in other threads, students who are taking/retaking Algebra 1 in high school, likely aren't the higher performing students and more likely to not do well in the state assessment for it.

So Algebra 1 is not really a good indicator for math proficiency for high schools.

It's a bit more relevant for middle schools. So if you look at the population for Pyle, the proficiency level for Whites in Algebra 1 is 80.3 percent and should be a more accurate representation of students on a more on level track. Where this group can be a mix of 6 to 8th graders.

So again, this takes digging. It's not just "oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test, so it's okayif my kid didn't do well too" You have to understand what groups take the classes and assessments when and what are their likely/expected outcomes.

I didn't say anything remotely related to ""oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test" so I'm not sure why you put that in quotes.
I looked at the rates for graduates that are listed in the MD report card for Whitman. That showed about 80% of White graduating seniors were proficient in math. Sounds like that matches up with the Pyle test results. In both cases, 1 out of 5 White students are not proficient in math. That's not awesome.

I guess that depends on what your standards are. I think an argument can be made that 80% of any student population demonstrating proficiency in math or literacy is good enough. Is a 90+% proficiency for any student population even possible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

DP.

People who whine about "critical race theory" ar outing themselves as idiots.

https://www.albert.io/blog/ultimate-ap-english-literature-reading-list/

1. Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison

Ellison’s Invisible Man is a long read but it is definitely worth your time. It expertly tackles race and bigotry, and its effect on the minds of everyone involved. Themes of race, identity, ideology, and stereotypes are explored.

This is the most frequently referenced title on the AP® English Literature book list since 1971.

Are you sup[porting CRT being traught in schools or pretending it's not happening? I can't tell from your post. As for your example, "While Invisible Man (1952) predates the formal articulation of Critical Race Theory (CRT) as an academic field (1970s-80s), its themes of racial invisibility, systemic racism, imposed identities, and institutional critique align profoundly with CRT principles."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

Which AP English, Lang or Lit? They operate differently.

I don’t even think the poster has a kid at MCPS. Just seems to want to complain about being forced to learn “critical race theory” which is how the person characterizes Ellison’s Invisible Man, i.e. a major work of literature by a black author.

"While Invisible Man (1952) predates the formal articulation of Critical Race Theory (CRT) as an academic field (1970s-80s), its themes of racial invisibility, systemic racism, imposed identities, and institutional critique align profoundly with CRT principles."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do we (MCPS parents) feel the need to defend the school system? Does being "anti-MCPS" mean acknowledging politicians' and administrators' inability to stop the decline of the schools, and then holding them to account for that failure? If so, I guess I'm "anti-MCPS." We should be battering the incompetent school administrators to either improve or organize to break this organization up into manageable entities. I guess that parents feel like because their kids are in the system, they have to pretend it's good, for their own sanity and perhaps to collectively hold up the reputation until their kids are out. I think this is a self-defeating strategy. MCPS parents should be raising h*** with the Board and the professional administrators. We live in a democracy. This is our job.

+1 million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

Even at Whitman, one out of five White kids graduate not proficient in math.

We've been down this rabbithole in other threads.

For high school math, you have to see what test is administered and looking at mdreportcard for Whitman, it says only 18.5 percent White students are proficient in Math. But when you look at the list of tests, Algebra 1 is the only test listed. So it's unlikely they tested in Algebra 2.

And it was already mentioned in other threads, students who are taking/retaking Algebra 1 in high school, likely aren't the higher performing students and more likely to not do well in the state assessment for it.

So Algebra 1 is not really a good indicator for math proficiency for high schools.

It's a bit more relevant for middle schools. So if you look at the population for Pyle, the proficiency level for Whites in Algebra 1 is 80.3 percent and should be a more accurate representation of students on a more on level track. Where this group can be a mix of 6 to 8th graders.

So again, this takes digging. It's not just "oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test, so it's okayif my kid didn't do well too" You have to understand what groups take the classes and assessments when and what are their likely/expected outcomes.

I didn't say anything remotely related to ""oh only 18.5 percent of Whites at Whitman tested proficient in the Algebra 1 test" so I'm not sure why you put that in quotes.
I looked at the rates for graduates that are listed in the MD report card for Whitman. That showed about 80% of White graduating seniors were proficient in math. Sounds like that matches up with the Pyle test results. In both cases, 1 out of 5 White students are not proficient in math. That's not awesome.

Yeah I was looking around mdreportcard and just realized what numbers you were looking at and how you got the 1 out of 5 White students at Whitman not being proficient in Math upon graduation.

It's as other poster said, 80 percent of the student population is still relatively high. And you're just going to have some students that struggle in some subject areas. Doesn't matter what school they go to.

Looking at the 2024 numbers (which are available in a spreadsheet, I don't think 2025 is available yet) there were only 30 schools in the state of Maryland that had a Algebra 1 test taker proficiency of 80 percent or more:

Year--LEA--LEA Name--School--School Name--Assessment--Student Group--Tested Count--Proficient Count--Proficient Pct
2024--02--Anne Arundel--1023--Brooklyn Park Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--31--26--83.9
2024--02--Anne Arundel--2043--Severna Park Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--298--243--81.5
2024--02--Anne Arundel--2413--Severn River Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--100--89--89.0
2024--02--Anne Arundel--3263--Crofton Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--220--192--87.3
2024--02--Anne Arundel--6113--Monarch Global Academy PCS Laurel Campus--Algebra 1 --All Students--23--19--82.6
2024--06--Carroll--0807--Shiloh Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--72--59--81.9
2024--09--Dorchester--0508--South Dorchester School--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--12--80.0
2024--10--Frederick--0225--Gov. Thomas Johnson Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--34--28--82.4
2024--10--Frederick--0714--Windsor Knolls Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--97--91--93.8
2024--10--Frederick--0716--Urbana Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--176--149--84.7
2024--10--Frederick--0918--Oakdale Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--129--107--82.9
2024--10--Frederick--1301--Frederick Classical Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--21--18--85.7
2024--10--Frederick--2606--Walkersville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--37--33--89.2
2024--13--Howard--0108--Bonnie Branch Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--130--105--80.8
2024--13--Howard--0211--Dunloggin Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--102--82--80.4
2024--13--Howard--0216--Burleigh Manor Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--169--154--91.1
2024--13--Howard--0304--Mount View Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--220--193--87.7
2024--13--Howard--0405--Glenwood Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--108--88--81.5
2024--13--Howard--0521--Clarksville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--166--156--94.0
2024--13--Howard--0526--Lime Kiln Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--154--125--81.2
2024--16--Prince George's--0104--Beltsville Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--19--*-->= 95.0
2024--17--Queen Anne's--0407--Matapeake Middle School--Algebra 1 --All Students--44--39--88.6
2024--21--Washington--0401--Clear Spring Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--26--*-->= 95.0
2024--21--Washington--0602--Boonsboro Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--65--57--87.7
2024--21--Washington--0704--Smithsburg Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--42--37--88.1
2024--22--Wicomico--0406--Pittsville Elementary & Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--*-->= 95.0
2024--23--Worcester--0108--Pocomoke Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--11--*-->= 95.0
2024--23--Worcester--0308--Stephen Decatur Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--47--*-->= 95.0
2024--30--Baltimore City--0347--KIPP Harmony Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--30--24--80.0
2024--30--Baltimore City--0373--Tunbridge Public Charter School--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--12--80.0


So think 80 percent is a fantastic number. Again you have to have an idea of the expected/realistic outcomes.

And think Pyle (although not in the 2024 list for all students) is in great company.

In regards to quotes, it's as mentioned, we've had discussions about this in previous threads. Once it got established that a low proficiency rate should not be the norm, the thread eventually devolved into that poster starting to say how Algebra 1 wasn't necessary at all. So I was kind of referencing that previous thread and quoting the kind of things that poster would say.

[Anonymous]

Actually it looks like the 2025 numbers are available in a spreadsheet and Pyle is in here.

Year--LEA--LEA Name--School--School Name--Assessment--Student Group--Tested Count--Proficient Count--Proficient Pct
2025--02--Anne Arundel--1023--Brooklyn Park Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--19--18--94.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--2413--Severn River Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--114--100--87.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--4283--Central Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--169--138--81.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--6233--Monarch Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--24--20--83.3
2025--10--Frederick--0211--West Frederick Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--35--29--82.9
2025--10--Frederick--0228--Carroll Creek Montessori Public Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--13--12--92.3
2025--10--Frederick--0714--Windsor Knolls Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--121--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0716--Urbana Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--184--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0918--Oakdale Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--138--123--89.1
2025--10--Frederick--1301--Frederick Classical Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--25--20--80.0
2025--10--Frederick--2606--Walkersville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--*--*-->= 95.0
2025--13--Howard--0304--Mount View Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--202--182--90.1
2025--13--Howard--0307--Folly Quarter Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--153--137--89.5
2025--13--Howard--0405--Glenwood Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--90--74--82.2
2025--13--Howard--0518--Harpers Choice Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--45--81.8
2025--13--Howard--0521--Clarksville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--170--157--92.4
2025--15--Montgomery--0428--Thomas W. Pyle Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--405--326--80.5
2025--16--Prince George's--0104--Beltsville Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--17--16--94.1
2025--16--Prince George's--0509--Accokeek Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--82--72--87.8
2025--17--Queen Anne's--0407--Matapeake Middle School--Algebra 1 --All Students--42--*-->= 95.0
2025--21--Washington--0201--Springfield Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--65--56--86.2
2025--21--Washington--0401--Clear Spring Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--22--20--90.9
2025--21--Washington--0602--Boonsboro Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--67--59--88.1
2025--21--Washington--0704--Smithsburg Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--52--94.5
2025--21--Washington--2102--Northern Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--69--57--82.6
2025--21--Washington--2501--Western Heights Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--23--19--82.6
2025--23--Worcester--0108--Pocomoke Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--12--*-->= 95.0
2025--23--Worcester--0208--Snow Hill Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--21--19--90.5
2025--23--Worcester--0308--Stephen Decatur Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--41--*-->= 95.0
2025--30--Baltimore City--0373--Tunbridge Public Charter School--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--12--80.0

So referencing what was said in the previous thread an issue that I have with these discussions is that the attitude and mentality shouldn't be "well it's a low proficiency rate, so it's okay that my kids didn't do well" But it should be "why aren't my kids doing well and what needs to be done to help them improve"

And right, you would hope and strive for schools to have 100 percent proficiency rates but looking at the data, it seems very hard and rare to do. So it goes back to knowing the expected/realistic outcomes. I consider an 80 percent proficiency rate excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a teacher and a parent of two in MCPS, I am generally happy with MCPS. I do think we provided a better product 20 years ago, but I'd say that's a national trend rather than a local. I do believe there is some correction going on that's going to take time to shake out. Someone mentioned how many parents are happy with their teachers, but would like to see more educational rigor and accountability for their children. I'd say that's accurate for the teachers too. But there are a lot of policies put in place over the last decade that have to be undone. Still, my experience is that there are good teachers teaching good students.
Of course, the biggest factor to your child's education success is you. Keeping them exposed to reading, music, physical activity, and limiting their use of screens (especially at an early age) is going to do so much more for their educational outcomes than any policy from central office.

This. The academic rigor just isn’t there compared with my rigorous private school education 30 years ago. They barely teach writing. My 6th grader has never been asked to write even a book report let alone a real essay or paper. But I’m not sure any other local public is better. We don’t have the money for private. As far as school experience goes it’s been fine. Just I wonder about the curriculum. My 3rd grader is doing a bit more writing so maybe it is improving.

Reading books is overrated and doesn't necessarily make a school rigorous.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Teaching writing well is hard with such big class sizes that MCPS has, but my MCPS 4th grader does weekly reading reports that are similar to the book reports I did as a kid (although they're shorter). My 6th grader did essays (and they definitely increase in frequency in 7th and 8th grade).

That's fantastic, but that wasn't our experience at all in ES or MS. We didn't have weekly book reports in 4th. We had a chart where kids had to pick one activity (i.e. read for 15 minutes, or anwser one question in 2-3 sentences). MCPS really varies by school and teachers.

Yes, of course that's the case, and most people recognize that their experiences aren't universal in a large public school system, which is why I take statements like "my AP English kid read only 1 book" with a grain of salt. My kid struggled in 7th grade English with a teacher who assigned a lot of writing and some texts that I honestly thought were more suitable to high school. I was told he was the toughest English teacher in the school. My kid's 8th grade teacher assigns a lot more multiple choice assignments and a lot less writing.

You were really lucky then. We have had one book in AP English this year. We have never had more than 2 books a year, maybe one year we had three but that wasn't the norm. Never had lots of multiple choice. Most writing assignments are a paragraph or two.

I wouldn’t judge the rigor of an AP English class on the number of books they’ve read. Are they reading historic texts? Classic short stories that are considered exemplary literary works? Sometimes the teacher is showing a specific literary device or teaching a specific theme that is featured for the AP exam and can do that with a shorter piece of literature. And you can do that whether or not something is a “book.”

+1 I would judge the rigor/quality of an AP English class by how many kids are earning 4s/5s. How has the school that the PP won’t name but allegedly only assigns one book on critical race theory (the name of which book PP won’t name) performing?

Well that's stupid.

What would be your metric oh brilliant one? AP test scores are national independently assessed exams.

MCPS publishes AP scores by subject and school if you were interested looking at outcome data rather than posting whiny messages about MCPS teaching your kid only one book about “critical race theory” at a school you won’t name.

How dare you bring data on educational outcomes into a discussion about the PP’s opinions into what makes a good education. /s

It’s surprising how little MCPS performance metrics have come into the discussion here. Half of all MCPS students can’t do math or read at grade level. That is bad. Most of the discussion on this forum is about the changes to the gifted programs, school boundary changes and the teaching of LGBT topics…and snow days.

There’s very little discussion here about class sizes (huge) and quality of ES curricula to teach basic English and math (leaving aside the niche topic of complaints about an AP English teacher’s book choices.)

It's been somewhat but I think there's a portion on DCUM (or at least one poster) who either doesn't understand or are okay with it because people say it's the general trend.

So if people say like 60 percent of students in MCPS don't meet the benchmarks or targets, then some people claim it's okay that their kids don't meet it either because that's just the trend. Then the argument in the earlier discussions of removing the countywide programs for the six regional model is that MCPS needs to focus on the general population as a whole that is underperforming instead of the select few small portion that are advanced.

What people don't realize is that if you dig into the data more, certain schools have high rates of meeting the benchmarks while others have really low which causes the county average to be as low as it is.

So the experience will really vary based on the specific schools and also on the family's specific situation.

This is precisely what is upsetting. MCPS is treated as a single school system for statistical purposes, however many schools don't perform well and completely lack services that would allow students to navigate a good education.

I grew up in a rural county where the entire county went to one school essentially K-12. It was on average an average school, but they had math tracking and AP classes for the advanced students, they had a vocational tech school for people going directly into trades.

MCPS has all of these things, but they are unavailable to many students because of rigid zip code attendance boundaries. If you land in one school, the special AP classes are completely unavailable to you.

I mean access to the right classes are predicated on a decision that you likely made before they were even born and may not even be correct for everyone in your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually it looks like the 2025 numbers are available in a spreadsheet and Pyle is in here.

Year--LEA--LEA Name--School--School Name--Assessment--Student Group--Tested Count--Proficient Count--Proficient Pct
2025--02--Anne Arundel--1023--Brooklyn Park Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--19--18--94.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--2413--Severn River Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--114--100--87.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--4283--Central Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--169--138--81.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--6233--Monarch Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--24--20--83.3
2025--10--Frederick--0211--West Frederick Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--35--29--82.9
2025--10--Frederick--0228--Carroll Creek Montessori Public Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--13--12--92.3
2025--10--Frederick--0714--Windsor Knolls Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--121--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0716--Urbana Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--184--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0918--Oakdale Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--138--123--89.1
2025--10--Frederick--1301--Frederick Classical Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--25--20--80.0
2025--10--Frederick--2606--Walkersville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--*--*-->= 95.0
2025--13--Howard--0304--Mount View Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--202--182--90.1
2025--13--Howard--0307--Folly Quarter Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--153--137--89.5
2025--13--Howard--0405--Glenwood Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--90--74--82.2
2025--13--Howard--0518--Harpers Choice Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--45--81.8
2025--13--Howard--0521--Clarksville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--170--157--92.4
2025--15--Montgomery--0428--Thomas W. Pyle Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--405--326--80.5
2025--16--Prince George's--0104--Beltsville Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--17--16--94.1
2025--16--Prince George's--0509--Accokeek Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--82--72--87.8
2025--17--Queen Anne's--0407--Matapeake Middle School--Algebra 1 --All Students--42--*-->= 95.0
2025--21--Washington--0201--Springfield Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--65--56--86.2
2025--21--Washington--0401--Clear Spring Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--22--20--90.9
2025--21--Washington--0602--Boonsboro Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--67--59--88.1
2025--21--Washington--0704--Smithsburg Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--52--94.5
2025--21--Washington--2102--Northern Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--69--57--82.6
2025--21--Washington--2501--Western Heights Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--23--19--82.6
2025--23--Worcester--0108--Pocomoke Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--12--*-->= 95.0
2025--23--Worcester--0208--Snow Hill Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--21--19--90.5
2025--23--Worcester--0308--Stephen Decatur Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--41--*-->= 95.0
2025--30--Baltimore City--0373--Tunbridge Public Charter School--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--12--80.0

So referencing what was said in the previous thread an issue that I have with these discussions is that the attitude and mentality shouldn't be "well it's a low proficiency rate, so it's okay that my kids didn't do well" But it should be "why aren't my kids doing well and what needs to be done to help them improve"

And right, you would hope and strive for schools to have 100 percent proficiency rates but looking at the data, it seems very hard and rare to do. So it goes back to knowing the expected/realistic outcomes. I consider an 80 percent proficiency rate excellent.

Just 6 years ago the proficiency rates at these schools were several points higher. While 100% may not be possible, we can absolutely do better that 80%, GMAFB. And we are just talking about White students. Math proficiency rates for Black students are in free fall. No, it's not because they are all poor - the median income for households with Black householders is $91k. How is there not more outrage about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually it looks like the 2025 numbers are available in a spreadsheet and Pyle is in here.

Year--LEA--LEA Name--School--School Name--Assessment--Student Group--Tested Count--Proficient Count--Proficient Pct
2025--02--Anne Arundel--1023--Brooklyn Park Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--19--18--94.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--2413--Severn River Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--114--100--87.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--4283--Central Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--169--138--81.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--6233--Monarch Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--24--20--83.3
2025--10--Frederick--0211--West Frederick Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--35--29--82.9
2025--10--Frederick--0228--Carroll Creek Montessori Public Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--13--12--92.3
2025--10--Frederick--0714--Windsor Knolls Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--121--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0716--Urbana Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--184--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0918--Oakdale Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--138--123--89.1
2025--10--Frederick--1301--Frederick Classical Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--25--20--80.0
2025--10--Frederick--2606--Walkersville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--*--*-->= 95.0
2025--13--Howard--0304--Mount View Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--202--182--90.1
2025--13--Howard--0307--Folly Quarter Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--153--137--89.5
2025--13--Howard--0405--Glenwood Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--90--74--82.2
2025--13--Howard--0518--Harpers Choice Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--45--81.8
2025--13--Howard--0521--Clarksville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--170--157--92.4
2025--15--Montgomery--0428--Thomas W. Pyle Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--405--326--80.5
2025--16--Prince George's--0104--Beltsville Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--17--16--94.1
2025--16--Prince George's--0509--Accokeek Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--82--72--87.8
2025--17--Queen Anne's--0407--Matapeake Middle School--Algebra 1 --All Students--42--*-->= 95.0
2025--21--Washington--0201--Springfield Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--65--56--86.2
2025--21--Washington--0401--Clear Spring Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--22--20--90.9
2025--21--Washington--0602--Boonsboro Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--67--59--88.1
2025--21--Washington--0704--Smithsburg Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--52--94.5
2025--21--Washington--2102--Northern Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--69--57--82.6
2025--21--Washington--2501--Western Heights Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--23--19--82.6
2025--23--Worcester--0108--Pocomoke Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--12--*-->= 95.0
2025--23--Worcester--0208--Snow Hill Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--21--19--90.5
2025--23--Worcester--0308--Stephen Decatur Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--41--*-->= 95.0
2025--30--Baltimore City--0373--Tunbridge Public Charter School--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--12--80.0

So referencing what was said in the previous thread an issue that I have with these discussions is that the attitude and mentality shouldn't be "well it's a low proficiency rate, so it's okay that my kids didn't do well" But it should be "why aren't my kids doing well and what needs to be done to help them improve"

And right, you would hope and strive for schools to have 100 percent proficiency rates but looking at the data, it seems very hard and rare to do. So it goes back to knowing the expected/realistic outcomes. I consider an 80 percent proficiency rate excellent.

Just 6 years ago the proficiency rates at these schools were several points higher. While 100% may not be possible, we can absolutely do better that 80%, GMAFB. And we are just talking about White students. Math proficiency rates for Black students are in free fall. No, it's not because they are all poor - the median income for households with Black householders is $91k. How is there not more outrage about this?

This has all been talked about before:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/50/1305522.page

And is nothing new and not something that everyone is happy with.

But part of the question in this thread is if MCPS is really that bad where OP should be considering private school instead. And it's as mentioned in several posts, it would depend on the local school and the situation for OP's family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually it looks like the 2025 numbers are available in a spreadsheet and Pyle is in here.

Year--LEA--LEA Name--School--School Name--Assessment--Student Group--Tested Count--Proficient Count--Proficient Pct
2025--02--Anne Arundel--1023--Brooklyn Park Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--19--18--94.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--2413--Severn River Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--114--100--87.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--4283--Central Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--169--138--81.7
2025--02--Anne Arundel--6233--Monarch Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--24--20--83.3
2025--10--Frederick--0211--West Frederick Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--35--29--82.9
2025--10--Frederick--0228--Carroll Creek Montessori Public Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--13--12--92.3
2025--10--Frederick--0714--Windsor Knolls Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--121--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0716--Urbana Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--184--*-->= 95.0
2025--10--Frederick--0918--Oakdale Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--138--123--89.1
2025--10--Frederick--1301--Frederick Classical Charter--Algebra 1 --All Students--25--20--80.0
2025--10--Frederick--2606--Walkersville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--*--*-->= 95.0
2025--13--Howard--0304--Mount View Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--202--182--90.1
2025--13--Howard--0307--Folly Quarter Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--153--137--89.5
2025--13--Howard--0405--Glenwood Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--90--74--82.2
2025--13--Howard--0518--Harpers Choice Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--45--81.8
2025--13--Howard--0521--Clarksville Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--170--157--92.4
2025--15--Montgomery--0428--Thomas W. Pyle Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--405--326--80.5
2025--16--Prince George's--0104--Beltsville Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--17--16--94.1
2025--16--Prince George's--0509--Accokeek Academy--Algebra 1 --All Students--82--72--87.8
2025--17--Queen Anne's--0407--Matapeake Middle School--Algebra 1 --All Students--42--*-->= 95.0
2025--21--Washington--0201--Springfield Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--65--56--86.2
2025--21--Washington--0401--Clear Spring Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--22--20--90.9
2025--21--Washington--0602--Boonsboro Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--67--59--88.1
2025--21--Washington--0704--Smithsburg Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--55--52--94.5
2025--21--Washington--2102--Northern Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--69--57--82.6
2025--21--Washington--2501--Western Heights Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--23--19--82.6
2025--23--Worcester--0108--Pocomoke Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--12--*-->= 95.0
2025--23--Worcester--0208--Snow Hill Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--21--19--90.5
2025--23--Worcester--0308--Stephen Decatur Middle--Algebra 1 --All Students--41--*-->= 95.0
2025--30--Baltimore City--0373--Tunbridge Public Charter School--Algebra 1 --All Students--15--12--80.0

So referencing what was said in the previous thread an issue that I have with these discussions is that the attitude and mentality shouldn't be "well it's a low proficiency rate, so it's okay that my kids didn't do well" But it should be "why aren't my kids doing well and what needs to be done to help them improve"

And right, you would hope and strive for schools to have 100 percent proficiency rates but looking at the data, it seems very hard and rare to do. So it goes back to knowing the expected/realistic outcomes. I consider an 80 percent proficiency rate excellent.

Just 6 years ago the proficiency rates at these schools were several points higher. While 100% may not be possible, we can absolutely do better that 80%, GMAFB. And we are just talking about White students. Math proficiency rates for Black students are in free fall. No, it's not because they are all poor - the median income for households with Black householders is $91k. How is there not more outrage about this?

This has all been talked about before:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/50/1305522.page

And is nothing new and not something that everyone is happy with.

But part of the question in this thread is if MCPS is really that bad where OP should be considering private school instead. And it's as mentioned in several posts, it would depend on the local school and the situation for OP's family.

It's actually okay to point out more than once that academically MCPS is going downhill. It is not true that getting more than 80% of kids proficient in math at a wealthy school is unattainable. We were able to do this just 6 years ago.

And it's directly relevant to OP. OP should be aware that a sizeable minority of kids in MCPS, including White wealthy kids at Pyle and Whitman, are not doing well academically.

My kid is in 1st grade in MCPS and my gratitude and admiration for her teachers knows no bounds but you bet that we are being proactive about addressing academic issues that arise at home even if the teachers are not worried (or not empowered to offer appropriate supports). Too many kids are slipping through the cracks.