Disney primarily for the wealthy? NYT Article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We will never do Disney. If it was expensive, but the experience was enjoyable I would consider it. But the fact that it costs thousands AND you still have to wait an hour+ per ride? No way. Waiting in line is something I absolutely hate. There's no way I'm PAYING to spend my vacation waiting in line.

Lightening lane is pretty affordable. It’s like $30 pp per day. I never wait for more than 30 minutes for a ride, and with LL it’s under 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Disney is for the rich only. Only 1% of America is rich. Disney is too overcrowded to be enjoyable.

Something is not adding up.

International visitors. Disney is more about international than US visitors at this point. The next time you're going to somewhere in Latin America, the Caribbean or even Europe look around and see how many people get off the plane having just visited Disney. A trip to the US is often just (or at least mostly) about Disney for international visitors.

This. And I’m not sure about Latin America but EU tourists get ticket deals that make their tickets MUCH cheaper than ours, and they stay longer. So Disney rakes in money by having them in the parks and resorts for a week plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had a Disney week and had fun, but see no need to do that again. The ratio of price to planning work was very off

For any other trip/experience, the extra money, extra organizing and hoops would have resulted in some superior and seamless experience however with Disney it’s just getting you to enjoyable level

I find that any trip takes SO much planning these days. We went to UK and France this summer and I couldn’t believe the amount of preplanning I had to do and really didn’t enjoy it. Same with national park trips with lots of stops. I am familiar with Disney so those trips are actually easier for me, but unless you are just going to the beach most trips require a lot of research and planning if you want to see “the good stuff” - whatever that means for where you decide to go.

I like theme park trips because I know where we will be all day, what we will eat, where the parking is etc. When I price out a day of meals and activities from other vacations Disney isn’t always more expensive either

Exactly and when we went to Europe this summer all the tickets and tours I had to buy for sightseeing really added up! And the hotel prices were outrageous because I needed two rooms for 4 people. It easily cost as much as Disney.

Oh, a trip for four people to another continent cost as much as going to a theme park in Florida? Crazy

There are people on this very thread saying Europe is cheaper than Disney. That’s not true for most and Orlando is much easier for many reasons. I don’t go to Europe for 4 nights, I will go to Florida if that’s all the time I have

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can go to London, stay in nicer accommodations, eat better food, not wait in lines, take your kids to large play places and slides, and see some real Norman castles for less money. Or go take your kid hiking and lake swimming for far less.

Having grown up in Orlando I really did used to have a fondness for the parks. But the magic just isn't there anymore.

We do all three of these types of vacations, but these posts always irritate me. The flights to Europe for a family are more than a Disney trip, if you need to travel over school breaks, and even more so if you're not willing to fly overnight in economy and let your kids sleep next to a stranger with no assigned seating. Just out of curiousity, I just priced on American a r/t to London from IAD for winter break -- $935pp for basic economy (which probably doesn't include assigned seats) or $2225 pp for premium economy (which is still a pretty miserable experience). London hotels are also expensive. Disney is only a 2 hour flight, making it so much more practical for a 3-4 day weekend, with no jet lag. And when was the last time you rented a house at a lake like Deep Creek? We just did that and it was several thousand dollars for the week for a very basic house at a very basic lake, and that's before we rented a boat to be able to get around the lake, which was another couple thousand. So that's not cheap either. And neither of those experiences give you the experience of flying through the air on a different planet. I just think that they aren't comparable vacations AND that people always underestimate the costs of those other trips.

Part of hte ever-increasing price is that Disney has been adding newer and fancier rides every year. Back in the 80's, there were almost no upgrades/changes to the basic parks (obviously Epcot was new then). They are adding a new high profile ride every year or more frequently now -- and if you compare the safety features, design elements and theming to someplace like Six Flags, it's clear that it requires more money to do it the way Disney does it. It really doesn't surprise me that the parks are expensive, considering what they are putting into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So Disney is for the rich only. Only 1% of America is rich. Disney is too overcrowded to be enjoyable.

Something is not adding up.

International visitors. Disney is more about international than US visitors at this point. The next time you're going to somewhere in Latin America, the Caribbean or even Europe look around and see how many people get off the plane having just visited Disney. A trip to the US is often just (or at least mostly) about Disney for international visitors.

I have been wondering how all the trump stuff is going to affect that. We typically go to Disney in Jan/Feb, and there are so many groups there from the southern hemisphere. Big tour groups, school groups, large family groups, etc. I just cannot imagine being a South American parent right now saying "Sure, you can take my teen to Florida for a school trip."

Canadian visitors are apparently usually 8% of Disney visitors and that number is WAY down now.

[Anonymous]

I'm always a little perplexed by these posters that are like "Disney was so much better when I was a kid! I don't want to wait in these long lines!" But you can still go on the SAME rides you went on as a kid with basically no lines. No one is waiting in long lines for Carousel of Progress or Figment Journey into Imagination. Even Dumbo has pretty short lines. There are a few exceptions -- Peter Pan because it's a terribly designed loading process; Space Mountain for reasons not known to man. But generally, the older rides have basically no wait times so you can still go and have that same 1980s experience!

[Anonymous]

Disney is gross. I don't care if you are rich or poor. Tacky, tacky, tacky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little perplexed by these posters that are like "Disney was so much better when I was a kid! I don't want to wait in these long lines!" But you can still go on the SAME rides you went on as a kid with basically no lines. No one is waiting in long lines for Carousel of Progress or Figment Journey into Imagination. Even Dumbo has pretty short lines. There are a few exceptions -- Peter Pan because it's a terribly designed loading process; Space Mountain for reasons not known to man. But generally, the older rides have basically no wait times so you can still go and have that same 1980s experience!

This is actually a good point.

I think that what people miss is the feeling of being a kid at Disney. The wonder and fun. My family's Disney vacation is one of the few kid-centered vacations we took. That's still the case.

We as a family have been to London and Paris and Yellowstone and Greece. I loved them all. But my kids much prefer a Disney or Universal centered vacation. I can't blame them. I preferred those trips also when I was a kid. Though the beach is great for both kids and adults, so there's that.

Yeah, I didn't go on Peter Pan as a kid. I did this time because it was on a list and we were taking our four year old so obviously there weren't many rides meant for him so we did all of them...but that Peter Pan ride is kind of awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't completely agree with these articles. No doubt Disney has far outpaced inflation, and the quality inside the parks has gone down. Anyone who spent time in Disney World in the 1980s and 1990s knows the place isn't nearly as special as it once was. They're dirtier and the maintenance is just a joke in comparison.

That all said, you can make Disney World relatively affordable. The only "unaffordable" part of WDW is the tickets. Nobody has to stay on property. And the flights to Orlando couldn't be cheaper. I have an annual pass this year, and I'll probably end up making five trips. I stay off property most of the time and have no problem getting hotels for under $100 a night in places like the Marriott Village.

For the snobs, I do a couple international trips a year, and several ski jaunts. But WDW is easy and always fun, so it balances out my travel very well. And with passes, the incremental cost is quite low.

You should start a thread about Disney World on a budget. We are a family of three and want to do a one or two day Disney World visit before our kid gets too old to enjoy it, and what you are suggesting here sounds good to me. I have just started looking at Disney travel advice online and a lot of it seems geared at a different kind of family having a different kind of experience. I just want to go for one or two days and get the most out of it (ride the best rides while minimizing line time, eat reasonably well without taking on a second mortgage). We don't need premiere pass everything and we have the endurance for one long park day (our kid is older and doesn't need to go back to the hotel for a nap or pool time after a few hours).

But much of the Disney advice seems to assume you are going for at least 3-4 days, that you HAVE to stay on property, that you HAVE to do a lot of these extras like the character meet and greets. I don't know that we need to do any of that for our kid to enjoy it? Also I know my DH will be a lot easier to deal with if we can keep it to a day or two.

Actually, your type of family is very common, but those are the people who end up hating Disney. Trying to take your kid for one long park day, only riding the peak rides, will result in exhaustion and cranky parents bound and determined to get their money's worth. Meet and greets are not necessary; death marches through the parks to have a "one and done" day are terrible.

This person is only correct if you feel like you have to do everything on that one day. One day without that type of 'do everything' mentality can be great. The problem in fact is that mentality which is what ruins a lot of disney trips for people who have saved up and spent a lot to make it happen, whether they have 1 or 5 days in the park that mentality results in a bad trip. Going in knowing you can't see everything and strategically planning out good days, no matter how many you have, is the ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little perplexed by these posters that are like "Disney was so much better when I was a kid! I don't want to wait in these long lines!" But you can still go on the SAME rides you went on as a kid with basically no lines. No one is waiting in long lines for Carousel of Progress or Figment Journey into Imagination. Even Dumbo has pretty short lines. There are a few exceptions -- Peter Pan because it's a terribly designed loading process; Space Mountain for reasons not known to man. But generally, the older rides have basically no wait times so you can still go and have that same 1980s experience!

Take that back about Space Mountain

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little perplexed by these posters that are like "Disney was so much better when I was a kid! I don't want to wait in these long lines!" But you can still go on the SAME rides you went on as a kid with basically no lines. No one is waiting in long lines for Carousel of Progress or Figment Journey into Imagination. Even Dumbo has pretty short lines. There are a few exceptions -- Peter Pan because it's a terribly designed loading process; Space Mountain for reasons not known to man. But generally, the older rides have basically no wait times so you can still go and have that same 1980s experience!

This is actually a good point.

I think that what people miss is the feeling of being a kid at Disney. The wonder and fun. My family's Disney vacation is one of the few kid-centered vacations we took. That's still the case.

We as a family have been to London and Paris and Yellowstone and Greece. I loved them all. But my kids much prefer a Disney or Universal centered vacation. I can't blame them. I preferred those trips also when I was a kid. Though the beach is great for both kids and adults, so there's that.

Yeah, I didn't go on Peter Pan as a kid. I did this time because it was on a list and we were taking our four year old so obviously there weren't many rides meant for him so we did all of them...but that Peter Pan ride is kind of awful.

Winnie the Pooh is the chaotic good kid’s ride. F Peter Pan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had a Disney week and had fun, but see no need to do that again. The ratio of price to planning work was very off

For any other trip/experience, the extra money, extra organizing and hoops would have resulted in some superior and seamless experience however with Disney it’s just getting you to enjoyable level

I find that any trip takes SO much planning these days. We went to UK and France this summer and I couldn’t believe the amount of preplanning I had to do and really didn’t enjoy it. Same with national park trips with lots of stops. I am familiar with Disney so those trips are actually easier for me, but unless you are just going to the beach most trips require a lot of research and planning if you want to see “the good stuff” - whatever that means for where you decide to go.

I like theme park trips because I know where we will be all day, what we will eat, where the parking is etc. When I price out a day of meals and activities from other vacations Disney isn’t always more expensive either

Exactly and when we went to Europe this summer all the tickets and tours I had to buy for sightseeing really added up! And the hotel prices were outrageous because I needed two rooms for 4 people. It easily cost as much as Disney.

Oh, a trip for four people to another continent cost as much as going to a theme park in Florida? Crazy

There are people on this very thread saying Europe is cheaper than Disney. That’s not true for most and Orlando is much easier for many reasons. I don’t go to Europe for 4 nights, I will go to Florida if that’s all the time I have

I've priced it many times, and 10 days in Europe is always cheaper or similar in cost to 4-5 days at Disney. That makes Europe cheaper. The extra cost for plane tickets is obliterated by the cost of park tickets, hotels, and extras.

Also, when we go to Europe, we always find a lot of stuff to do that is free or close to it but really rewarding. Having a picnic in Paris with a view of the Eiffel Tower was like a top 5 travel moment for my kids and it cost us like $20. When we were in Copenhagen, we bough the Copenhagen Card which gets you access to a ton of museums, boat tours, plus pays for all your train travel around the region. I think the card as like $100 per person for 5 days. And only DH and I had to buy them -- if an adult gets one, the kids get one free. So for $200 we did a canal tour of Copenhagen, visited two castles, went to the Viking museum, traveled outside the city to a couple small towns in Denmark where we did a boat tour on a lake, went to the zoo, went to the children's museum, etc. Also in Copenhagen, we went to Tivoli Gardens like three times, road all the rides, saw a concert, went out to dinner there multiple times, and spent, tops $250 on all of that because Tivoli is insanely family friendly and you can get in cheap without buying a ride pass, or you can get a ride pass for everything for like $65 or something, I can't remember. It was all so inexpensive. And it's a gorgeous amusement park with beautiful landscaping, great restaurants, etc. Not as big as Disney but our kids had a blast and it's less crowded with a more relaxed atmosphere and fewer lines. I'd go there again in a heartbeat. I will never go to Disney again.

Disney is just not good value. You are buying nostalgia and this corner of American culture that Disney cornered the market on. Your money does not actually buy you a superior experience or fun. For a lot of people it's worth it to get the photos and to buy their kids what many now consider to be a childhood rite of passage for Americans. But objectively, there are a million other vacations that give you more actual entertainment for your money. Everything from national parks to Caribbean beaches to European cities. Disney feels like an elaborate marketing delusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We had a Disney week and had fun, but see no need to do that again. The ratio of price to planning work was very off

For any other trip/experience, the extra money, extra organizing and hoops would have resulted in some superior and seamless experience however with Disney it’s just getting you to enjoyable level

I find that any trip takes SO much planning these days. We went to UK and France this summer and I couldn’t believe the amount of preplanning I had to do and really didn’t enjoy it. Same with national park trips with lots of stops. I am familiar with Disney so those trips are actually easier for me, but unless you are just going to the beach most trips require a lot of research and planning if you want to see “the good stuff” - whatever that means for where you decide to go.

I like theme park trips because I know where we will be all day, what we will eat, where the parking is etc. When I price out a day of meals and activities from other vacations Disney isn’t always more expensive either

Exactly and when we went to Europe this summer all the tickets and tours I had to buy for sightseeing really added up! And the hotel prices were outrageous because I needed two rooms for 4 people. It easily cost as much as Disney.

Oh, a trip for four people to another continent cost as much as going to a theme park in Florida? Crazy

There are people on this very thread saying Europe is cheaper than Disney. That’s not true for most and Orlando is much easier for many reasons. I don’t go to Europe for 4 nights, I will go to Florida if that’s all the time I have

I've priced it many times, and 10 days in Europe is always cheaper or similar in cost to 4-5 days at Disney. That makes Europe cheaper. The extra cost for plane tickets is obliterated by the cost of park tickets, hotels, and extras.

Also, when we go to Europe, we always find a lot of stuff to do that is free or close to it but really rewarding. Having a picnic in Paris with a view of the Eiffel Tower was like a top 5 travel moment for my kids and it cost us like $20. When we were in Copenhagen, we bough the Copenhagen Card which gets you access to a ton of museums, boat tours, plus pays for all your train travel around the region. I think the card as like $100 per person for 5 days. And only DH and I had to buy them -- if an adult gets one, the kids get one free. So for $200 we did a canal tour of Copenhagen, visited two castles, went to the Viking museum, traveled outside the city to a couple small towns in Denmark where we did a boat tour on a lake, went to the zoo, went to the children's museum, etc. Also in Copenhagen, we went to Tivoli Gardens like three times, road all the rides, saw a concert, went out to dinner there multiple times, and spent, tops $250 on all of that because Tivoli is insanely family friendly and you can get in cheap without buying a ride pass, or you can get a ride pass for everything for like $65 or something, I can't remember. It was all so inexpensive. And it's a gorgeous amusement park with beautiful landscaping, great restaurants, etc. Not as big as Disney but our kids had a blast and it's less crowded with a more relaxed atmosphere and fewer lines. I'd go there again in a heartbeat. I will never go to Disney again.

Disney is just not good value. You are buying nostalgia and this corner of American culture that Disney cornered the market on. Your money does not actually buy you a superior experience or fun. For a lot of people it's worth it to get the photos and to buy their kids what many now consider to be a childhood rite of passage for Americans. But objectively, there are a million other vacations that give you more actual entertainment for your money. Everything from national parks to Caribbean beaches to European cities. Disney feels like an elaborate marketing delusion.

I mean I have a general agreement with your travel philosophies here but like a 4 day trip to disney is only more expensive than a 10 day trip to europe if you are choosing the absolutely MOST expensive disney experience.

Pop century resorts for a family of four you can get for like, if you go during off season, $175 a night, probably $250 a night otherwise. So lets call that $1500 for your four night, five day stay. There is currently right now a deal on disney's website for $267 but taking out any special deals you might get a 5 day ticket looks to be average $140 a day so $2800. Lets add $600 for lightening lanes for every person every day (this is all assuming everyone is an adult).

So far we are at $4600. Lets add $1200 for plane tickets. $5800. Now we have not accounted for food yet of course and that can add a lot. But you basically have a fantastic trip to Disney here for less than $6000. Lets say you got an AMAZING deal on plane tickets to europe and you're getting your family of four there for $2800. Let's say you get great hotel deals and you spend an average of $170 a night so your accommodations are at $1700. And you spend $1000 on activities.

We're at roughly the same cost, I'll give it to you, but you're at bargain basement Europe and basically full experience Disney. Both are great trips! No reason to disparage either IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm always a little perplexed by these posters that are like "Disney was so much better when I was a kid! I don't want to wait in these long lines!" But you can still go on the SAME rides you went on as a kid with basically no lines. No one is waiting in long lines for Carousel of Progress or Figment Journey into Imagination. Even Dumbo has pretty short lines. There are a few exceptions -- Peter Pan because it's a terribly designed loading process; Space Mountain for reasons not known to man. But generally, the older rides have basically no wait times so you can still go and have that same 1980s experience!

Take that back about Space Mountain

I’m over here near speechless that someone besmirched my favorite ride, Peter Pan!

[Anonymous]

For anyone outside of the truly "local" radius (people who can easily drive there and back home in one day or take local transit, so their only real expense is the "locals only" rate), it is definitely a luxury product.