Only 57% of MCPS students proficient in reading, 36% proficient in math

Anonymous
The problem is tech in schools and particularly laptops in elementary schools (or worse, IPads). This is for several reasons. First, in order to learn to read, children need to write by hand. Laptops and Ipads do not have the same impact on the brain. Second, when you read online, your eye travels up and down. When you read on paper, it travels left to right. That is why you retain much less information when you read something online. Third, many people find it helpful to underline words and otherwise interact with the text - this is not possible (highlighting isn't the same) on a laptop. Finally, tech is inherently distracting - for the teacher, it takes up a lot of time, making sure kids can sign in, making sure the devices are charged, making sure children are on task and not playing games. For children, they are distracting because there are a lot of other things you can do besides being on task - and if one child is playing a game, all the children around him are watching.

For math, information is not retained online as easily. If you have never taken statistics, try learning it through Khan Academy. It will not stick the way it would if you had a textbook and/or workbook.

These results are self-inflicted and will not improve until we get tech out of schools. (How much of what I just wrote did you absorb on the first reading? Probably not all - and imagine being a student trying to learn.)
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid did terrible at the MCAP. Just average scores. She is however 99th on MAP-R. Testing and knowledge are two different things.


Oh interesting. I wonder how common this is? Not this exact disparity (99th percentile MAP kid scoring low on MCAP) but just in general kids being rated as "not proficient" on MCAP despite actually being proficient...


Teachers and administrators have raised concerns about MCAP specifically for a long time. My 99th percentile kid did very well on MCAP for two years, then tanked it one year. What was different? Not the ability (MAP scores remained consistent), and not the effort (my kid is a Hermione Granger type who would die before purposefully throwing a test). Just...a bad day. Maybe she was coming down with something. Maybe she forgot to eat lunch. I have no idea, but it ultimately meant nothing.


It’s hilarious how whenever the test scores are bad, school system defenders will insist there’s something wrong with the test and not the school system. And yet, when the scores are good, the system has no qualms about using them as evidence to crow about how great the system is.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.
MCAP started in 2021 and no school district in MD has done great on it since it started. There have been improvements but no district has done great. No school district has used MCAP as evidence to crow about how great they are. None.
It a bad assessment test. Schools administrators don't like it and students don't care about it. That's why the State had to make it a graduation requirement.
The new state superintendent was supposed to take a review of the MCAP.


You keep talking about MCAP.

My criticisms about the system outcomes are not relegated to just this instance of MCAP. It's talking about the ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies on a MULTITUDE of assessments including:
- MCAP
- PARCC
- MSA
- EOL
- SAT/ACT scores
- AP/IB scores

Here's a throwback to MCPS's PARCC results from in Sept 2018: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2018/18.09.13%202018%20Final%20PARCC%20Student%20Results.pdf

From 2018: https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/08/2018-parcc-scores-top-scoring-maryland-school-systems/

51% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in ELA standards. 44% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in math standards.

As I stated: The proficiency problems in MCPS PRECEDE MCAP. Blaming the test does not work because the proficiency levels weren't great on state-tests that preceded MCAP and they've continued to NOT be great systemwide for external tests such as SAT/ACT and AP/IB scores.

Pull your head out of the sand and stop blame shifting. MCPS has long had an instructional quality problem.

Because that's the subject of this thread.
-Let's look at PARCC. What was the national proficiency average and state proficiency average at the time? National proficiency average was 32%, State proficiency rate was 38% while MCPS was 51%.
Why did MD and every other state that used to administer the PARCC assessment get rid of it? Because it was a very bad assessment.
-What "ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies" in SAT/ACT, AP/IB scores are you talking about?
SAT scores are higher, AP scores have never been higher, hovering in the 70s%. 20 out 25 HS made the AP list. Do you have a clue of what you're talking about? What do you get from lying and posting false information? Are you related to the TACO man?


You are not relying on facts and evidence: https://bethesdamagazine.com/2024/10/08/does-mcps-deserve-a-passing-grade/

As for tests once considered crucial in determining college readiness, fewer MCPS students took AP exams last year than a decade ago, decreasing from 66% in 2013 to just under 60% in 2023. And the percentage of those scoring a 3 or higher—which is considered passing—on at least one exam dropped by five percentage points to just over 46%. MCPS still surpasses national averages by a significant margin: Less than 35% of public high school students across the U.S. took an AP exam in 2023, and of these, less than 22% scored a 3 or higher on at least one exam, according to the College Board, which administers the tests.

On the SATs, county data shows that the average composite score among 2023 MCPS graduates was 1064 (out of a possible 1600). That’s more than 100 points lower than a decade ago, when the average composite score was the equivalent of 1190, based on a conversion from the 2400 scale that was used at the time.

Fro DoE. Increase participation rate and 76% passing rate
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED671680.pdf


So, I was trying to figure out how these numbers squared with those shared by PP above, and I think this is it.

With regards to AP classes, the number of kids getting a 3 on at least one test dropped (the Bethesda Magazine statistic).

BUT, the number of 3s and above received by MCPS kids is up (your statistic, from DoE).

This makes sense if you have a current high schooler, or have just been paying attention, or if you scroll down on your link, where you can see breakdowns by race/ethnicity and school. About 40,500 AP exams were taken in 2024 by MCPS students. Of those, about 31,000 were graded at 3 or higher. More than a third of those were from only four high schools in the county.

To put it in simpler terms, at a school like Whitman, about 89% of AP exams got a passing grade. But at Kennedy, about 37% of tests got a passing grade.

This is how the statistics square. You have a subset of kids taking a bunch of APs and passing all of them, and then another subset of kids taking the exams but not passing. That's how number of passing tests can be up, but number of kids with at least one passing score is down.

This raises a pretty important question, for me. Why is MCPS letting kids sign up for classes they aren't prepared for? And is anyone looking at the class grade pass rate compared to the AP test pass rate for those classes? If there's a mismatch, why?

Anonymous
There was a study in Peru that gave One Laptop Per Child - the results were very disappointing.

Students subjected to the program, our research shows, did not improve their academic performance and had even slightly lower on-time primary and secondary school completion rates than those who didn’t participate. Moreover, while students improved in their ability to use the provided laptops (known as XO laptops), they only marginally improved their ability to use PC computers and showed no improvement in internet skills.

https://blogs.iadb.org/ideas-matter/en/handing-out-laptops-is-not-enough-to-improve-student-learning/
Anonymous
DP-Here's what I was able to find searching online. Add the 76% passing rate for 2024 that someone posted earlier:

Key Data Points
2023 Performance: 73.5% of MCPS students scored a 3 or higher on AP exams in 2023.
Performance Trends: MCPS has seen consistent increases in AP exam performance over the years, with 2023 showing an increase from 2022.
College Board Recognition: The College Board recognizes MCPS schools for their high performance in AP programs.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid did terrible at the MCAP. Just average scores. She is however 99th on MAP-R. Testing and knowledge are two different things.


Oh interesting. I wonder how common this is? Not this exact disparity (99th percentile MAP kid scoring low on MCAP) but just in general kids being rated as "not proficient" on MCAP despite actually being proficient...


Teachers and administrators have raised concerns about MCAP specifically for a long time. My 99th percentile kid did very well on MCAP for two years, then tanked it one year. What was different? Not the ability (MAP scores remained consistent), and not the effort (my kid is a Hermione Granger type who would die before purposefully throwing a test). Just...a bad day. Maybe she was coming down with something. Maybe she forgot to eat lunch. I have no idea, but it ultimately meant nothing.


It’s hilarious how whenever the test scores are bad, school system defenders will insist there’s something wrong with the test and not the school system. And yet, when the scores are good, the system has no qualms about using them as evidence to crow about how great the system is.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.
MCAP started in 2021 and no school district in MD has done great on it since it started. There have been improvements but no district has done great. No school district has used MCAP as evidence to crow about how great they are. None.
It a bad assessment test. Schools administrators don't like it and students don't care about it. That's why the State had to make it a graduation requirement.
The new state superintendent was supposed to take a review of the MCAP.


You keep talking about MCAP.

My criticisms about the system outcomes are not relegated to just this instance of MCAP. It's talking about the ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies on a MULTITUDE of assessments including:
- MCAP
- PARCC
- MSA
- EOL
- SAT/ACT scores
- AP/IB scores

Here's a throwback to MCPS's PARCC results from in Sept 2018: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2018/18.09.13%202018%20Final%20PARCC%20Student%20Results.pdf

From 2018: https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/08/2018-parcc-scores-top-scoring-maryland-school-systems/

51% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in ELA standards. 44% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in math standards.

As I stated: The proficiency problems in MCPS PRECEDE MCAP. Blaming the test does not work because the proficiency levels weren't great on state-tests that preceded MCAP and they've continued to NOT be great systemwide for external tests such as SAT/ACT and AP/IB scores.

Pull your head out of the sand and stop blame shifting. MCPS has long had an instructional quality problem.

Because that's the subject of this thread.
-Let's look at PARCC. What was the national proficiency average and state proficiency average at the time? National proficiency average was 32%, State proficiency rate was 38% while MCPS was 51%.
Why did MD and every other state that used to administer the PARCC assessment get rid of it? Because it was a very bad assessment.
-What "ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies" in SAT/ACT, AP/IB scores are you talking about?
SAT scores are higher, AP scores have never been higher, hovering in the 70s%. 20 out 25 HS made the AP list. Do you have a clue of what you're talking about? What do you get from lying and posting false information? Are you related to the TACO man?


You are not relying on facts and evidence: https://bethesdamagazine.com/2024/10/08/does-mcps-deserve-a-passing-grade/

As for tests once considered crucial in determining college readiness, fewer MCPS students took AP exams last year than a decade ago, decreasing from 66% in 2013 to just under 60% in 2023. And the percentage of those scoring a 3 or higher—which is considered passing—on at least one exam dropped by five percentage points to just over 46%. MCPS still surpasses national averages by a significant margin: Less than 35% of public high school students across the U.S. took an AP exam in 2023, and of these, less than 22% scored a 3 or higher on at least one exam, according to the College Board, which administers the tests.

On the SATs, county data shows that the average composite score among 2023 MCPS graduates was 1064 (out of a possible 1600). That’s more than 100 points lower than a decade ago, when the average composite score was the equivalent of 1190, based on a conversion from the 2400 scale that was used at the time.

Fro DoE. Increase participation rate and 76% passing rate
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED671680.pdf


So, I was trying to figure out how these numbers squared with those shared by PP above, and I think this is it.

With regards to AP classes, the number of kids getting a 3 on at least one test dropped (the Bethesda Magazine statistic).

BUT, the number of 3s and above received by MCPS kids is up (your statistic, from DoE).

This makes sense if you have a current high schooler, or have just been paying attention, or if you scroll down on your link, where you can see breakdowns by race/ethnicity and school. About 40,500 AP exams were taken in 2024 by MCPS students. Of those, about 31,000 were graded at 3 or higher. More than a third of those were from only four high schools in the county.

To put it in simpler terms, at a school like Whitman, about 89% of AP exams got a passing grade. But at Kennedy, about 37% of tests got a passing grade.

This is how the statistics square. You have a subset of kids taking a bunch of APs and passing all of them, and then another subset of kids taking the exams but not passing. That's how number of passing tests can be up, but number of kids with at least one passing score is down.

This raises a pretty important question, for me. Why is MCPS letting kids sign up for classes they aren't prepared for? And is anyone looking at the class grade pass rate compared to the AP test pass rate for those classes? If there's a mismatch, why?



Failing a harder test doesn't mean you're learning less than someone who passes an easier test.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid did terrible at the MCAP. Just average scores. She is however 99th on MAP-R. Testing and knowledge are two different things.


Oh interesting. I wonder how common this is? Not this exact disparity (99th percentile MAP kid scoring low on MCAP) but just in general kids being rated as "not proficient" on MCAP despite actually being proficient...


Teachers and administrators have raised concerns about MCAP specifically for a long time. My 99th percentile kid did very well on MCAP for two years, then tanked it one year. What was different? Not the ability (MAP scores remained consistent), and not the effort (my kid is a Hermione Granger type who would die before purposefully throwing a test). Just...a bad day. Maybe she was coming down with something. Maybe she forgot to eat lunch. I have no idea, but it ultimately meant nothing.


It’s hilarious how whenever the test scores are bad, school system defenders will insist there’s something wrong with the test and not the school system. And yet, when the scores are good, the system has no qualms about using them as evidence to crow about how great the system is.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.
MCAP started in 2021 and no school district in MD has done great on it since it started. There have been improvements but no district has done great. No school district has used MCAP as evidence to crow about how great they are. None.
It a bad assessment test. Schools administrators don't like it and students don't care about it. That's why the State had to make it a graduation requirement.
The new state superintendent was supposed to take a review of the MCAP.


You keep talking about MCAP.

My criticisms about the system outcomes are not relegated to just this instance of MCAP. It's talking about the ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies on a MULTITUDE of assessments including:
- MCAP
- PARCC
- MSA
- EOL
- SAT/ACT scores
- AP/IB scores

Here's a throwback to MCPS's PARCC results from in Sept 2018: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2018/18.09.13%202018%20Final%20PARCC%20Student%20Results.pdf

From 2018: https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/08/2018-parcc-scores-top-scoring-maryland-school-systems/

51% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in ELA standards. 44% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in math standards.

As I stated: The proficiency problems in MCPS PRECEDE MCAP. Blaming the test does not work because the proficiency levels weren't great on state-tests that preceded MCAP and they've continued to NOT be great systemwide for external tests such as SAT/ACT and AP/IB scores.

Pull your head out of the sand and stop blame shifting. MCPS has long had an instructional quality problem.

Because that's the subject of this thread.
-Let's look at PARCC. What was the national proficiency average and state proficiency average at the time? National proficiency average was 32%, State proficiency rate was 38% while MCPS was 51%.
Why did MD and every other state that used to administer the PARCC assessment get rid of it? Because it was a very bad assessment.
-What "ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies" in SAT/ACT, AP/IB scores are you talking about?
SAT scores are higher, AP scores have never been higher, hovering in the 70s%. 20 out 25 HS made the AP list. Do you have a clue of what you're talking about? What do you get from lying and posting false information? Are you related to the TACO man?


You are not relying on facts and evidence: https://bethesdamagazine.com/2024/10/08/does-mcps-deserve-a-passing-grade/

As for tests once considered crucial in determining college readiness, fewer MCPS students took AP exams last year than a decade ago, decreasing from 66% in 2013 to just under 60% in 2023. And the percentage of those scoring a 3 or higher—which is considered passing—on at least one exam dropped by five percentage points to just over 46%. MCPS still surpasses national averages by a significant margin: Less than 35% of public high school students across the U.S. took an AP exam in 2023, and of these, less than 22% scored a 3 or higher on at least one exam, according to the College Board, which administers the tests.

On the SATs, county data shows that the average composite score among 2023 MCPS graduates was 1064 (out of a possible 1600). That’s more than 100 points lower than a decade ago, when the average composite score was the equivalent of 1190, based on a conversion from the 2400 scale that was used at the time.

Fro DoE. Increase participation rate and 76% passing rate
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED671680.pdf


So, I was trying to figure out how these numbers squared with those shared by PP above, and I think this is it.

With regards to AP classes, the number of kids getting a 3 on at least one test dropped (the Bethesda Magazine statistic).

BUT, the number of 3s and above received by MCPS kids is up (your statistic, from DoE).

This makes sense if you have a current high schooler, or have just been paying attention, or if you scroll down on your link, where you can see breakdowns by race/ethnicity and school. About 40,500 AP exams were taken in 2024 by MCPS students. Of those, about 31,000 were graded at 3 or higher. More than a third of those were from only four high schools in the county.

To put it in simpler terms, at a school like Whitman, about 89% of AP exams got a passing grade. But at Kennedy, about 37% of tests got a passing grade.

This is how the statistics square. You have a subset of kids taking a bunch of APs and passing all of them, and then another subset of kids taking the exams but not passing. That's how number of passing tests can be up, but number of kids with at least one passing score is down.

This raises a pretty important question, for me. Why is MCPS letting kids sign up for classes they aren't prepared for? And is anyone looking at the class grade pass rate compared to the AP test pass rate for those classes? If there's a mismatch, why?



Failing a harder test doesn't mean you're learning less than someone who passes an easier test.



Wait, what? Your theory is that the kids at Kennedy are failing harder AP tests, while kids at the Ws are passing easier AP tests? Based on what evidence?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The problem is tech in schools and particularly laptops in elementary schools (or worse, IPads). This is for several reasons. First, in order to learn to read, children need to write by hand. Laptops and Ipads do not have the same impact on the brain. Second, when you read online, your eye travels up and down. When you read on paper, it travels left to right. That is why you retain much less information when you read something online. Third, many people find it helpful to underline words and otherwise interact with the text - this is not possible (highlighting isn't the same) on a laptop. Finally, tech is inherently distracting - for the teacher, it takes up a lot of time, making sure kids can sign in, making sure the devices are charged, making sure children are on task and not playing games. For children, they are distracting because there are a lot of other things you can do besides being on task - and if one child is playing a game, all the children around him are watching.

For math, information is not retained online as easily. If you have never taken statistics, try learning it through Khan Academy. It will not stick the way it would if you had a textbook and/or workbook.

These results are self-inflicted and will not improve until we get tech out of schools. (How much of what I just wrote did you absorb on the first reading? Probably not all - and imagine being a student trying to learn.)



You do not have to be writing by hand in order to learn to read. The foundational skills of learning to read are mostly memorization and auditory based. Being able write enhances the ability and creates different neural pathways which increases the memorization. But a person could learn to read without writing.

However, learning to write well does require learning to read and spell.

And tech in and of itself self in schools is not the problem. It’s how tech is used. In fact tech can be a good way to help reinforce skills or engage student differently. As for math, many have the ability to write using Desmos or the like.

With regards to reading print vs digital, no reputable study I read has indicated the problem is left to right reading vs downward. The additional comprehension or lack is usually attributed to distraction or tactile interaction differences.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Anyone really trying to defend this performance??


I think we’d all like to see our own kids’ test scores soon and not wait til 2026 to get them. You take 4 days of our kids’ time to test them-get us the results and post them in ParentVue.


+1. I would like to see where my kid falls within these county averages. When should we expect the scores to be posted?


Last year they were distributed (paper copies, not uploaded) in October.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid did terrible at the MCAP. Just average scores. She is however 99th on MAP-R. Testing and knowledge are two different things.


Oh interesting. I wonder how common this is? Not this exact disparity (99th percentile MAP kid scoring low on MCAP) but just in general kids being rated as "not proficient" on MCAP despite actually being proficient...


Teachers and administrators have raised concerns about MCAP specifically for a long time. My 99th percentile kid did very well on MCAP for two years, then tanked it one year. What was different? Not the ability (MAP scores remained consistent), and not the effort (my kid is a Hermione Granger type who would die before purposefully throwing a test). Just...a bad day. Maybe she was coming down with something. Maybe she forgot to eat lunch. I have no idea, but it ultimately meant nothing.


It’s hilarious how whenever the test scores are bad, school system defenders will insist there’s something wrong with the test and not the school system. And yet, when the scores are good, the system has no qualms about using them as evidence to crow about how great the system is.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.
MCAP started in 2021 and no school district in MD has done great on it since it started. There have been improvements but no district has done great. No school district has used MCAP as evidence to crow about how great they are. None.
It a bad assessment test. Schools administrators don't like it and students don't care about it. That's why the State had to make it a graduation requirement.
The new state superintendent was supposed to take a review of the MCAP.


You keep talking about MCAP.

My criticisms about the system outcomes are not relegated to just this instance of MCAP. It's talking about the ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies on a MULTITUDE of assessments including:
- MCAP
- PARCC
- MSA
- EOL
- SAT/ACT scores
- AP/IB scores

Here's a throwback to MCPS's PARCC results from in Sept 2018: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2018/18.09.13%202018%20Final%20PARCC%20Student%20Results.pdf

From 2018: https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/08/2018-parcc-scores-top-scoring-maryland-school-systems/

51% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in ELA standards. 44% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in math standards.

As I stated: The proficiency problems in MCPS PRECEDE MCAP. Blaming the test does not work because the proficiency levels weren't great on state-tests that preceded MCAP and they've continued to NOT be great systemwide for external tests such as SAT/ACT and AP/IB scores.

Pull your head out of the sand and stop blame shifting. MCPS has long had an instructional quality problem.

Because that's the subject of this thread.
-Let's look at PARCC. What was the national proficiency average and state proficiency average at the time? National proficiency average was 32%, State proficiency rate was 38% while MCPS was 51%.
Why did MD and every other state that used to administer the PARCC assessment get rid of it? Because it was a very bad assessment.
-What "ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies" in SAT/ACT, AP/IB scores are you talking about?
SAT scores are higher, AP scores have never been higher, hovering in the 70s%. 20 out 25 HS made the AP list. Do you have a clue of what you're talking about? What do you get from lying and posting false information? Are you related to the TACO man?


You are not relying on facts and evidence: https://bethesdamagazine.com/2024/10/08/does-mcps-deserve-a-passing-grade/

As for tests once considered crucial in determining college readiness, fewer MCPS students took AP exams last year than a decade ago, decreasing from 66% in 2013 to just under 60% in 2023. And the percentage of those scoring a 3 or higher—which is considered passing—on at least one exam dropped by five percentage points to just over 46%. MCPS still surpasses national averages by a significant margin: Less than 35% of public high school students across the U.S. took an AP exam in 2023, and of these, less than 22% scored a 3 or higher on at least one exam, according to the College Board, which administers the tests.

On the SATs, county data shows that the average composite score among 2023 MCPS graduates was 1064 (out of a possible 1600). That’s more than 100 points lower than a decade ago, when the average composite score was the equivalent of 1190, based on a conversion from the 2400 scale that was used at the time.

Fro DoE. Increase participation rate and 76% passing rate
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED671680.pdf


So, I was trying to figure out how these numbers squared with those shared by PP above, and I think this is it.

With regards to AP classes, the number of kids getting a 3 on at least one test dropped (the Bethesda Magazine statistic).

BUT, the number of 3s and above received by MCPS kids is up (your statistic, from DoE).

This makes sense if you have a current high schooler, or have just been paying attention, or if you scroll down on your link, where you can see breakdowns by race/ethnicity and school. About 40,500 AP exams were taken in 2024 by MCPS students. Of those, about 31,000 were graded at 3 or higher. More than a third of those were from only four high schools in the county.

To put it in simpler terms, at a school like Whitman, about 89% of AP exams got a passing grade. But at Kennedy, about 37% of tests got a passing grade.

This is how the statistics square. You have a subset of kids taking a bunch of APs and passing all of them, and then another subset of kids taking the exams but not passing. That's how number of passing tests can be up, but number of kids with at least one passing score is down.

This raises a pretty important question, for me. Why is MCPS letting kids sign up for classes they aren't prepared for? And is anyone looking at the class grade pass rate compared to the AP test pass rate for those classes? If there's a mismatch, why?



Fantastic analysis work. Great job!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Anyone really trying to defend this performance??


I think we’d all like to see our own kids’ test scores soon and not wait til 2026 to get them. You take 4 days of our kids’ time to test them-get us the results and post them in ParentVue.


+1. I would like to see where my kid falls within these county averages. When should we expect the scores to be posted?


Last year they were distributed (paper copies, not uploaded) in October.


Not at our school. We got them in the spring of 2025.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The problem is tech in schools and particularly laptops in elementary schools (or worse, IPads). This is for several reasons. First, in order to learn to read, children need to write by hand. Laptops and Ipads do not have the same impact on the brain. Second, when you read online, your eye travels up and down. When you read on paper, it travels left to right. That is why you retain much less information when you read something online. Third, many people find it helpful to underline words and otherwise interact with the text - this is not possible (highlighting isn't the same) on a laptop. Finally, tech is inherently distracting - for the teacher, it takes up a lot of time, making sure kids can sign in, making sure the devices are charged, making sure children are on task and not playing games. For children, they are distracting because there are a lot of other things you can do besides being on task - and if one child is playing a game, all the children around him are watching.

For math, information is not retained online as easily. If you have never taken statistics, try learning it through Khan Academy. It will not stick the way it would if you had a textbook and/or workbook.

These results are self-inflicted and will not improve until we get tech out of schools. (How much of what I just wrote did you absorb on the first reading? Probably not all - and imagine being a student trying to learn.)



You do not have to be writing by hand in order to learn to read. The foundational skills of learning to read are mostly memorization and auditory based. Being able write enhances the ability and creates different neural pathways which increases the memorization. But a person could learn to read without writing.

However, learning to write well does require learning to read and spell.

And tech in and of itself self in schools is not the problem. It’s how tech is used. In fact tech can be a good way to help reinforce skills or engage student differently. As for math, many have the ability to write using Desmos or the like.

With regards to reading print vs digital, no reputable study I read has indicated the problem is left to right reading vs downward. The additional comprehension or lack is usually attributed to distraction or tactile interaction differences.

The biggest problem with tech is the internet, which makes it hard to stop students from going off task. For example, the linked mcps google account is one area students end up chatting with one another, playing games, etc.

In the olden days, we used computers but—because there was no internet—we stayed on task.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The problem is tech in schools and particularly laptops in elementary schools (or worse, IPads). This is for several reasons. First, in order to learn to read, children need to write by hand. Laptops and Ipads do not have the same impact on the brain. Second, when you read online, your eye travels up and down. When you read on paper, it travels left to right. That is why you retain much less information when you read something online. Third, many people find it helpful to underline words and otherwise interact with the text - this is not possible (highlighting isn't the same) on a laptop. Finally, tech is inherently distracting - for the teacher, it takes up a lot of time, making sure kids can sign in, making sure the devices are charged, making sure children are on task and not playing games. For children, they are distracting because there are a lot of other things you can do besides being on task - and if one child is playing a game, all the children around him are watching.

For math, information is not retained online as easily. If you have never taken statistics, try learning it through Khan Academy. It will not stick the way it would if you had a textbook and/or workbook.

These results are self-inflicted and will not improve until we get tech out of schools. (How much of what I just wrote did you absorb on the first reading? Probably not all - and imagine being a student trying to learn.)



You do not have to be writing by hand in order to learn to read. The foundational skills of learning to read are mostly memorization and auditory based. Being able write enhances the ability and creates different neural pathways which increases the memorization. But a person could learn to read without writing.

However, learning to write well does require learning to read and spell.

And tech in and of itself self in schools is not the problem. It’s how tech is used. In fact tech can be a good way to help reinforce skills or engage student differently. As for math, many have the ability to write using Desmos or the like.

With regards to reading print vs digital, no reputable study I read has indicated the problem is left to right reading vs downward. The additional comprehension or lack is usually attributed to distraction or tactile interaction differences.

The biggest problem with tech is the internet, which makes it hard to stop students from going off task. For example, the linked mcps google account is one area students end up chatting with one another, playing games, etc.

In the olden days, we used computers but—because there was no internet—we stayed on task.


Agreed.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The problem is tech in schools and particularly laptops in elementary schools (or worse, IPads). This is for several reasons. First, in order to learn to read, children need to write by hand. Laptops and Ipads do not have the same impact on the brain. Second, when you read online, your eye travels up and down. When you read on paper, it travels left to right. That is why you retain much less information when you read something online. Third, many people find it helpful to underline words and otherwise interact with the text - this is not possible (highlighting isn't the same) on a laptop. Finally, tech is inherently distracting - for the teacher, it takes up a lot of time, making sure kids can sign in, making sure the devices are charged, making sure children are on task and not playing games. For children, they are distracting because there are a lot of other things you can do besides being on task - and if one child is playing a game, all the children around him are watching.

For math, information is not retained online as easily. If you have never taken statistics, try learning it through Khan Academy. It will not stick the way it would if you had a textbook and/or workbook.

These results are self-inflicted and will not improve until we get tech out of schools. (How much of what I just wrote did you absorb on the first reading? Probably not all - and imagine being a student trying to learn.)



You do not have to be writing by hand in order to learn to read. The foundational skills of learning to read are mostly memorization and auditory based. Being able write enhances the ability and creates different neural pathways which increases the memorization. But a person could learn to read without writing.

However, learning to write well does require learning to read and spell.

And tech in and of itself self in schools is not the problem. It’s how tech is used. In fact tech can be a good way to help reinforce skills or engage student differently. As for math, many have the ability to write using Desmos or the like.

With regards to reading print vs digital, no reputable study I read has indicated the problem is left to right reading vs downward. The additional comprehension or lack is usually attributed to distraction or tactile interaction differences.

The biggest problem with tech is the internet, which makes it hard to stop students from going off task. For example, the linked mcps google account is one area students end up chatting with one another, playing games, etc.

In the olden days, we used computers but—because there was no internet—we stayed on task.


Agreed.


Agreed. +100. And because the class size are so large that makes monitoring and management difficult.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kid did terrible at the MCAP. Just average scores. She is however 99th on MAP-R. Testing and knowledge are two different things.


Oh interesting. I wonder how common this is? Not this exact disparity (99th percentile MAP kid scoring low on MCAP) but just in general kids being rated as "not proficient" on MCAP despite actually being proficient...


Teachers and administrators have raised concerns about MCAP specifically for a long time. My 99th percentile kid did very well on MCAP for two years, then tanked it one year. What was different? Not the ability (MAP scores remained consistent), and not the effort (my kid is a Hermione Granger type who would die before purposefully throwing a test). Just...a bad day. Maybe she was coming down with something. Maybe she forgot to eat lunch. I have no idea, but it ultimately meant nothing.


It’s hilarious how whenever the test scores are bad, school system defenders will insist there’s something wrong with the test and not the school system. And yet, when the scores are good, the system has no qualms about using them as evidence to crow about how great the system is.

You have no idea of what you're talking about.
MCAP started in 2021 and no school district in MD has done great on it since it started. There have been improvements but no district has done great. No school district has used MCAP as evidence to crow about how great they are. None.
It a bad assessment test. Schools administrators don't like it and students don't care about it. That's why the State had to make it a graduation requirement.
The new state superintendent was supposed to take a review of the MCAP.


You keep talking about MCAP.

My criticisms about the system outcomes are not relegated to just this instance of MCAP. It's talking about the ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies on a MULTITUDE of assessments including:
- MCAP
- PARCC
- MSA
- EOL
- SAT/ACT scores
- AP/IB scores

Here's a throwback to MCPS's PARCC results from in Sept 2018: https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/2018/18.09.13%202018%20Final%20PARCC%20Student%20Results.pdf

From 2018: https://wtop.com/maryland/2018/08/2018-parcc-scores-top-scoring-maryland-school-systems/

51% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in ELA standards. 44% of MCPS 3-8 students demonstrated proficiency in math standards.

As I stated: The proficiency problems in MCPS PRECEDE MCAP. Blaming the test does not work because the proficiency levels weren't great on state-tests that preceded MCAP and they've continued to NOT be great systemwide for external tests such as SAT/ACT and AP/IB scores.

Pull your head out of the sand and stop blame shifting. MCPS has long had an instructional quality problem.

Because that's the subject of this thread.
-Let's look at PARCC. What was the national proficiency average and state proficiency average at the time? National proficiency average was 32%, State proficiency rate was 38% while MCPS was 51%.
Why did MD and every other state that used to administer the PARCC assessment get rid of it? Because it was a very bad assessment.
-What "ongoing pattern of decreased proficiencies" in SAT/ACT, AP/IB scores are you talking about?
SAT scores are higher, AP scores have never been higher, hovering in the 70s%. 20 out 25 HS made the AP list. Do you have a clue of what you're talking about? What do you get from lying and posting false information? Are you related to the TACO man?


You are not relying on facts and evidence: https://bethesdamagazine.com/2024/10/08/does-mcps-deserve-a-passing-grade/

As for tests once considered crucial in determining college readiness, fewer MCPS students took AP exams last year than a decade ago, decreasing from 66% in 2013 to just under 60% in 2023. And the percentage of those scoring a 3 or higher—which is considered passing—on at least one exam dropped by five percentage points to just over 46%. MCPS still surpasses national averages by a significant margin: Less than 35% of public high school students across the U.S. took an AP exam in 2023, and of these, less than 22% scored a 3 or higher on at least one exam, according to the College Board, which administers the tests.

On the SATs, county data shows that the average composite score among 2023 MCPS graduates was 1064 (out of a possible 1600). That’s more than 100 points lower than a decade ago, when the average composite score was the equivalent of 1190, based on a conversion from the 2400 scale that was used at the time.

Fro DoE. Increase participation rate and 76% passing rate
https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED671680.pdf


So, I was trying to figure out how these numbers squared with those shared by PP above, and I think this is it.

With regards to AP classes, the number of kids getting a 3 on at least one test dropped (the Bethesda Magazine statistic).

BUT, the number of 3s and above received by MCPS kids is up (your statistic, from DoE).

This makes sense if you have a current high schooler, or have just been paying attention, or if you scroll down on your link, where you can see breakdowns by race/ethnicity and school. About 40,500 AP exams were taken in 2024 by MCPS students. Of those, about 31,000 were graded at 3 or higher. More than a third of those were from only four high schools in the county.

To put it in simpler terms, at a school like Whitman, about 89% of AP exams got a passing grade. But at Kennedy, about 37% of tests got a passing grade.

This is how the statistics square. You have a subset of kids taking a bunch of APs and passing all of them, and then another subset of kids taking the exams but not passing. That's how number of passing tests can be up, but number of kids with at least one passing score is down.

This raises a pretty important question, for me. Why is MCPS letting kids sign up for classes they aren't prepared for? And is anyone looking at the class grade pass rate compared to the AP test pass rate for those classes? If there's a mismatch, why?



Failing a harder test doesn't mean you're learning less than someone who passes an easier test.



Wait, what? Your theory is that the kids at Kennedy are failing harder AP tests, while kids at the Ws are passing easier AP tests? Based on what evidence?


What we found is the quality of the teacher and them using textbooks/structured class covering all the material. It wasn't easy when your teachers don't cover everything but they tell the kids they are and not to worry/study outside of class. My kid believed that and learned the hard way despite us telling them otherwise. I suspect the material was not fully covered.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The problem is tech in schools and particularly laptops in elementary schools (or worse, IPads). This is for several reasons. First, in order to learn to read, children need to write by hand. Laptops and Ipads do not have the same impact on the brain. Second, when you read online, your eye travels up and down. When you read on paper, it travels left to right. That is why you retain much less information when you read something online. Third, many people find it helpful to underline words and otherwise interact with the text - this is not possible (highlighting isn't the same) on a laptop. Finally, tech is inherently distracting - for the teacher, it takes up a lot of time, making sure kids can sign in, making sure the devices are charged, making sure children are on task and not playing games. For children, they are distracting because there are a lot of other things you can do besides being on task - and if one child is playing a game, all the children around him are watching.

For math, information is not retained online as easily. If you have never taken statistics, try learning it through Khan Academy. It will not stick the way it would if you had a textbook and/or workbook.

These results are self-inflicted and will not improve until we get tech out of schools. (How much of what I just wrote did you absorb on the first reading? Probably not all - and imagine being a student trying to learn.)


Mcps doesn't have ipads.
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