For those 45+, how good were the 1990s, actually?

[Anonymous]

The 90s were great, rent was cheap and there was much fun to be had. It was the generation to be young in.

[Anonymous]

I had a job as a home health aide in college, and around 1999 a man in his late 90s said it was the best decade he had seen because of the strong economy and no wars. That statement really made an impression, 25+ years later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to keep in mind that in the 1990s the white middle class suburban demographics was the majority, if not by far the biggest single demographic cohort in the country. If you want to take the stance that if you were white and middle class then you only have an biased perspective of life in the 1990s, you're ignoring how the majority actually experienced the 90s, which means you're risking seeking out a minority and biased perspective of the decade. And contrary to what some youngsters like to believe, gays and minorities weren't persecuted, you'd have to go back much earlier.

That aside, there were huge ranges in how people "experienced" the decade as well as variations within the decade itself, from the brief 1991-2 recession to the boom of the end of the decade (which incidentally set up the framework for the great recession in the long run). I remember plenty of uncertainty and fears about everything, which is utterly typical for every decade and every generation. Some things feel better about the 90s, especially the pre social media era. There's been a great deal of cultural changes in larger society, some for the better, some that are neutral, and some that simply means a different kind of future than previously assumed. I actually think Europe actually is having a much harder time with this than the US.

I will say technology improvements, for all its benefits, has sped up the pace of how things are done and lived these days compared to the 1990s, which did move at a fast pace of its own. It seems like the more technology we have, the faster we have to live our lives. The pace is breathtaking nowadays and the ability to step out of it to a slower lifestyle seems impossible, at least without significant economic implications.

It is pretty sweeping to say gays and minorities weren't persecuted.

Just because you didn't experience it personally, does not mean it is not true.

Yes many people had the good life in the 1990s but there was still discrimination.

Mid 60’s here. Graduated from HS in 1978 so lived through both the 80s and the 90s as a lesbian. Here’s my take. The music and the clubs were like nothing that exists today. We had Black Sabbath, Queen, MeatLoaf, . . . Gay clubs in virtually any larger city were so full of energy and life. I don’t know that any generation will ever experience the wonder that was ours every single day if we weren’t too afraid to go.

But, gay clubs were hidden and you had to be afraid to go in. They were in undesirable (dangerous) neighborhoods, so safety was a concern. And, if you were seen entering, you risked your livelihood - losing your job and your housing, particularly in the early era of AIDS. Men got paid more than women just because they were men. Getting married wasn’t even a dream and if you lived with a partner, you set up a separate bedroom so you could pretend you weren’t together since that was vital for your safety and financial security.

And, finding people like yourself was like finding an underground community. You got publications like Lesbian Connections delivered in brown paper so no one would know what it was and the second it was delivered, you devoured it because you were so desperate for connections. That’s how you found out about things like the Michigan Women’s Music Festival.

I am white so I only observed the treatment of those who weren’t. But non white people were forced into their own communities. If they dared to buy a house in a white area, they had to worry about their kids being beaten up at the bus stop. Our parents didn’t allow us to play with non white kids or bring them around our house ever. There were segregated pools and grocery stores where the “colored” shopped. We were taught to be afraid of them.

And, once you hit a certain age, somewhere between 16 and 18, you were expected to move out and take care of yourself. Parents weren’t financing their kids’ college or their kids’ lives after HS graduation. We all pounded the pavement for jobs by the time were were 14 because our parents weren’t giving us money, but back then, 10 year olds could babysit your kids and parents went out often so there was that.

Oh, and don’t forget that women couldn’t get credit cards until the 1980s, couldn’t sign contracts, had difficulty renting apartments, etc. So, you were stuck in bad and abusive marriages. I remember when my friend’s parents divorced, my dad had to find her mom an apartment because women couldn’t apply or advertise for an apartment (back then, you advertised that you needed one, landlords didn’t advertise that they had availability).

So, do I miss the music and the clubs? Definitely yes. It was a gazillion times better than today. But, life today is so much better. As a society, we treat people the same regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender . . . I could finally get married and by the time it was legal in DC, we had been together almost two decades with kids, dogs and a house. Yes, school is more expensive for my kids than it was for me, but as a society, we generally help our kids whereas that wasn’t the case when I went to college. And, we all have health insurance without ridiculous conditions and high deductibles. HMOs and PPOs are amazing and people don’t even get what a huge change that is. And, while people criticize insurance companies, if you lived through the 80s and 90s, you’d understand how it was borne out of over treatment. Before conditions were set, people would stay in the hospital for weeks for a minor surgery and months or years for mental health issues.

And while the internet has its downsides, it sure does make finding people, travel, jobs, and everything else so much easier. Even social media has its upsides, like being able to stay in touch with family and watching them grow up when you live far away.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Now I’m going to go put on some hard rock while I go about the rest of my morning.

I graduated from high school in 1985, so I'm a few years younger than you. But I have a hard time believing that things changed so drastically in only 7 yrs, because what I bolded was not my experience at all. Maybe location played a role? I graduated from high school in Nashville. My first boss (1983, high school job) was openly gay. I went to gay clubs and bars with friends all through my college years (also in Nashville) and all of my friends were out. I'm sorry you hard that part of the experience. You're spot on about the music and dance scene. Nashville had (probably still does) an amazing music scene totally unrelated to country.

I'm sure location was part of it, but also I'm sure industry did as well. I worked as a social worker and moved on to law. I think it was in the mid 1990s that I was able to be out for the first time at work and that was when I moved to DC.

Also, I'm sure that location is significant when it came to safety around gay bars, but I was in big cities and the best places were in the worst areas. Remember Tracks? I know people who were robbed outside of there at gunpoint in the late 1990s and I don't know if that area ever became safe before it closed. But it was amazing and there is nothing I've seen like it in decades. Are there even gay bars today?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP needs to keep in mind that in the 1990s the white middle class suburban demographics was the majority, if not by far the biggest single demographic cohort in the country. If you want to take the stance that if you were white and middle class then you only have an biased perspective of life in the 1990s, you're ignoring how the majority actually experienced the 90s, which means you're risking seeking out a minority and biased perspective of the decade. And contrary to what some youngsters like to believe, gays and minorities weren't persecuted, you'd have to go back much earlier.

That aside, there were huge ranges in how people "experienced" the decade as well as variations within the decade itself, from the brief 1991-2 recession to the boom of the end of the decade (which incidentally set up the framework for the great recession in the long run). I remember plenty of uncertainty and fears about everything, which is utterly typical for every decade and every generation. Some things feel better about the 90s, especially the pre social media era. There's been a great deal of cultural changes in larger society, some for the better, some that are neutral, and some that simply means a different kind of future than previously assumed. I actually think Europe actually is having a much harder time with this than the US.

I will say technology improvements, for all its benefits, has sped up the pace of how things are done and lived these days compared to the 1990s, which did move at a fast pace of its own. It seems like the more technology we have, the faster we have to live our lives. The pace is breathtaking nowadays and the ability to step out of it to a slower lifestyle seems impossible, at least without significant economic implications.

It is pretty sweeping to say gays and minorities weren't persecuted.

Just because you didn't experience it personally, does not mean it is not true.

Yes many people had the good life in the 1990s but there was still discrimination.

Mid 60’s here. Graduated from HS in 1978 so lived through both the 80s and the 90s as a lesbian. Here’s my take. The music and the clubs were like nothing that exists today. We had Black Sabbath, Queen, MeatLoaf, . . . Gay clubs in virtually any larger city were so full of energy and life. I don’t know that any generation will ever experience the wonder that was ours every single day if we weren’t too afraid to go.

But, gay clubs were hidden and you had to be afraid to go in. They were in undesirable (dangerous) neighborhoods, so safety was a concern. And, if you were seen entering, you risked your livelihood - losing your job and your housing, particularly in the early era of AIDS. Men got paid more than women just because they were men. Getting married wasn’t even a dream and if you lived with a partner, you set up a separate bedroom so you could pretend you weren’t together since that was vital for your safety and financial security.

And, finding people like yourself was like finding an underground community. You got publications like Lesbian Connections delivered in brown paper so no one would know what it was and the second it was delivered, you devoured it because you were so desperate for connections. That’s how you found out about things like the Michigan Women’s Music Festival.

I am white so I only observed the treatment of those who weren’t. But non white people were forced into their own communities. If they dared to buy a house in a white area, they had to worry about their kids being beaten up at the bus stop. Our parents didn’t allow us to play with non white kids or bring them around our house ever. There were segregated pools and grocery stores where the “colored” shopped. We were taught to be afraid of them.

And, once you hit a certain age, somewhere between 16 and 18, you were expected to move out and take care of yourself. Parents weren’t financing their kids’ college or their kids’ lives after HS graduation. We all pounded the pavement for jobs by the time were were 14 because our parents weren’t giving us money, but back then, 10 year olds could babysit your kids and parents went out often so there was that.

Oh, and don’t forget that women couldn’t get credit cards until the 1980s, couldn’t sign contracts, had difficulty renting apartments, etc. So, you were stuck in bad and abusive marriages. I remember when my friend’s parents divorced, my dad had to find her mom an apartment because women couldn’t apply or advertise for an apartment (back then, you advertised that you needed one, landlords didn’t advertise that they had availability).

So, do I miss the music and the clubs? Definitely yes. It was a gazillion times better than today. But, life today is so much better. As a society, we treat people the same regardless of race, sexual orientation, gender . . . I could finally get married and by the time it was legal in DC, we had been together almost two decades with kids, dogs and a house. Yes, school is more expensive for my kids than it was for me, but as a society, we generally help our kids whereas that wasn’t the case when I went to college. And, we all have health insurance without ridiculous conditions and high deductibles. HMOs and PPOs are amazing and people don’t even get what a huge change that is. And, while people criticize insurance companies, if you lived through the 80s and 90s, you’d understand how it was borne out of over treatment. Before conditions were set, people would stay in the hospital for weeks for a minor surgery and months or years for mental health issues.

And while the internet has its downsides, it sure does make finding people, travel, jobs, and everything else so much easier. Even social media has its upsides, like being able to stay in touch with family and watching them grow up when you live far away.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Now I’m going to go put on some hard rock while I go about the rest of my morning.

I graduated from high school in 1985, so I'm a few years younger than you. But I have a hard time believing that things changed so drastically in only 7 yrs, because what I bolded was not my experience at all. Maybe location played a role? I graduated from high school in Nashville. My first boss (1983, high school job) was openly gay. I went to gay clubs and bars with friends all through my college years (also in Nashville) and all of my friends were out. I'm sorry you hard that part of the experience. You're spot on about the music and dance scene. Nashville had (probably still does) an amazing music scene totally unrelated to country.

Who are you to tell another poster who is seven years older than you and openly gay that you know more about their experience than they themselves do? One thing is very clear: gay rights and gay acceptance proceeded at an exponential rate over the last several decades, and it is entirely possible — likely, in fact — that there was a huge difference in experiences from the beginning of a seven year period to the end.

Where exactly did I say I know more about their experience? I shared MY experience. And I basically said that location might have played a role since it seems unlikely that a seven years would have. No idea why you're so triggered. JFC. Weird the assumptions you're making.

You said, and this is a quote:

“I have a hard time believing that things changed so drastically in only 7 yrs”

PP here. Honestly, I was not offended. You are right that there has been so much change in terms of the gay experience so I can understand why someone 7 years younger than me would have had a completely different experience and may not even be able to imagine what mine was like. And, the benefit of us sharing our 80's and 90's experiences is that we can keep alive the wonder of all of the progress that had been made in such a short time. We should never forget where we came from and the PP's post shows that it is all too easy to think that things were better than they were in earlier times.

[Anonymous]

What kind of a question is this, OP?

[Anonymous]

There were pros and cons OP.

I'm now 59, and the 90s were the best time in my life, mostly because I was young.

On the plus side: rents were lower, cars and gas prices were lower, and while salaries were lower I could afford to rent a two bedroom townhouse with a roommate. Places weren't as crowded and it was affordable to actually go to concerts and an occasional vacation.

On the minus side: in the early 90s there was a recession, so much like today I was competing with 200+ candidates for my lower library job. Had to move into the deep south to find a job. Interest rates were high and most people I know could not afford to buy a house unless you had two people working for a number of years and saving for that down payment. I did have some student loans, but they were not as bad as the ones younger people have today.

There was a lot of optimism and hope that the future would be better though. Now, I really don't see that and it's something I miss; I am also not optimistic about the US or making it out of the climate crisis unscathed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:90s were like peak America. Things have really gone downhill since 9/11.

+1. That was the inflection point. A lot of it due to the self-inflicted wound of intrusive government and technology from the patriot act.

^THIS played a big part for sure.

[Anonymous]

The economy wasn't that great in the early 90s. The unemployment rate was over 7% and fewer working age people were employed than now (this is true all the way to 1996). The economy was certainly good in the latter half of the decade, but some of that was the tech bubble which crashed in 2000. We got Gingrich's Contract with America because voters were pissed in 1994.

It also cost me $15.99 to buy a CD that may have only contained 1-2 songs that I liked.

So, while better, not perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was traveling and didn't confront the kind of over tourism you see now. It was easy to go off grid because there was no grid. You didn't have to worry about someone posting a video of you for the rest of the world to see. We wrote lots of letters. It's amazing to reread those now.

I was going to say this! I am SO glad that I experienced safari in Africa, cliff diving on the Amalfi coast, rave dancing in Berlin, walking the canals of St Petersburg during White Nights, and other common destinations without the overexposure and hordes. Yes, Venice was still crowded with tourists as was the Louvre. But it was a completely different scale.

Now you have to get a permit to hike Machu Picchu to slow the crowds? Go to Kyoto and you'll see frat bros cosplaying in samurai robes. Visiting Yosemite is a joke - a long line of cars slowing to gawk and landscapes for 2 minutes. I was in Nantucket recently and couldn't walk through town at a normal pace. I used to hike Old Rag once a month, and saw more bears than people.

I guess it's great that more people have exposure to all of this. It's not just for the privileged few. But boy, do I feel sorry for anyone who didn't get to be a tourist wandering the globe without meeting more Americans than local residents. Discovering a waterfall or patch of jungle that hadn't been Instagrammed to death. Setting out without an iPhone map to guide you. It's a loss.

[Anonymous]

In the 90s it was difficult to even imagine that the American Empire might end. We knew it could, of course, but it was hard to imagine exactly how. Kind of like when your marriage is going well and it's hard to imagine the possibility of divorce.

Now the divorce is in sight. Kind of like that realization within a marriage when you know it will end, even if not exactly how.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the 90s it was difficult to even imagine that the American Empire might end. We knew it could, of course, but it was hard to imagine exactly how. Kind of like when your marriage is going well and it's hard to imagine the possibility of divorce.

Now the divorce is in sight. Kind of like that realization within a marriage when you know it will end, even if not exactly how.

True. We were celebrating "the end of history" with democracy and market economies having won the ideological fight and American military dominance globally.

[Anonymous]

Other people have mentioned the good and bad of the economy so I'll focus on something else.

I'm 64. My kids were born in the 90s. My oldest showed classic ADHD behavior from a young age. I had a lot of pushback from just about everyone about getting this diagnosis: teachers, relatives, et al. People did not believe it was real or thought you were just trying to drug your child because you didn't want to take responsibility or the solutions were no sugar or food
additives or more discipline. As if we weren't trying these things! A lot of judgment and condescension from others. I also had PPD and had a hard time letting myself get medication for it. I didn't tell people because I felt embarrassed because I couldn't shake it by exercise, diet, journaling and other things.

There was less knowledge and compassion towards mental health issues. We may have gone too far in the other direction but there is much more acceptance about neurodiversity, learning disabilities, depression and anxiety and useful treatment and interventions.

When I hear RFK Jr talking about ADHD and depression, I hear the opinions of people back then and their insistence that these problems had non-medical solutions.

It was a good era but harbingers of things to come happened too, like the car bombing in the World Trade Center and the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing. I remember that in particular as really horrific and I remember reading about the militia movement which seened really out there and weird to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was traveling and didn't confront the kind of over tourism you see now. It was easy to go off grid because there was no grid. You didn't have to worry about someone posting a video of you for the rest of the world to see. We wrote lots of letters. It's amazing to reread those now.

I was going to say this! I am SO glad that I experienced safari in Africa, cliff diving on the Amalfi coast, rave dancing in Berlin, walking the canals of St Petersburg during White Nights, and other common destinations without the overexposure and hordes. Yes, Venice was still crowded with tourists as was the Louvre. But it was a completely different scale.

Now you have to get a permit to hike Machu Picchu to slow the crowds? Go to Kyoto and you'll see frat bros cosplaying in samurai robes. Visiting Yosemite is a joke - a long line of cars slowing to gawk and landscapes for 2 minutes. I was in Nantucket recently and couldn't walk through town at a normal pace. I used to hike Old Rag once a month, and saw more bears than people.

I guess it's great that more people have exposure to all of this. It's not just for the privileged few. But boy, do I feel sorry for anyone who didn't get to be a tourist wandering the globe without meeting more Americans than local residents. Discovering a waterfall or patch of jungle that hadn't been Instagrammed to death. Setting out without an iPhone map to guide you. It's a loss.

We traveled so much in the 90s and through 2019. We had so many more trips booked, adventurous ones. Then covid came, even Hawaii closed, we got home just as the first cases came to America.
We didn't travel. But we did miss the dismay of seeing places like Kyoto overrun with revenge travelers and fistfights on planes. We got older, too. Less fit. DH has heart issues now. I can't seem to bear heat like I used to. We haven't admitted it to each other, but I don't think we are up for liveaboards in Indonesia anymore. We had two booked for 2020, 2021.

But it was glorious and we saw so much. Just not the Red Sea. Or returns to places we wanted to snorkel again in Indo. We had Paris a lot. We'll always have Hong Kong.

[Anonymous]

As someone who lived in NYC at the time, it depends. The first half, until about 1995, was rough economy wise, there was a recession with lots of layoffs happening, and I know many people who graduated college in 1993-94 and went to fold sweaters in GAP store. The crime situation was pretty bad too, people don’t realize how dangerous some of the currently upscale neighborhoods were. Lots of cool artistic stuff was happening, though.

From 1995 on, it was awesome. Jobs were plentiful, crime plunged, and the arts were still flourishing. Plus there was an insane amount of hope that all the wars and arms race are finally behind us, and there will be only peace from now on.

Of course that was all shattered on 9/11 and then the dot com recession hit.

[Anonymous]

I bought a nice starter townhouse for $95,000 in 1995, which was a little less than 3x my salary at the time. I was 28 years old. Nice neighborhood. It was small but just 7 years old at the time. It didn't appreciate for 8 years and then in 2004-2005, its value ballooned and I sold it for $202,000.

I did it on my own. That's how amazing the 90s were. I was solid middle class and single, and was able to buy. I ache for young folks today.