Rising senior parents - don't do ED

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes I wonder if some of the top kids my my kid’s class could have or should have braved the RD pool and gotten into a school more highly ranked than their ED school, but it’s not my journey, not my kid and not my business.

They would've gotten rejected or waitlisted. The "high stats" kids are a dime a dozen now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, why are people here saying that ED is not a boost at places like Brown, Penn, Columbia and Dartmouth? The numbers are pretty clear that the admissions rates at all of these schools (including Duke, Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern) are much higher in the ED round than RD because they all care about yield. In fact, we know of several people who were deferred at these schools and ultimately got in during the RD round, and I'm sure that's because they ED'd and the schools care about yield.

+1

They are ignorant. Probably applied RD anyways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, why are people here saying that ED is not a boost at places like Brown, Penn, Columbia and Dartmouth? The numbers are pretty clear that the admissions rates at all of these schools (including Duke, Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern) are much higher in the ED round than RD because they all care about yield. In fact, we know of several people who were deferred at these schools and ultimately got in during the RD round, and I'm sure that's because they ED'd and the
schools care about yield.

It’s because the ED pool is stronger for Ivies, it includes athletes, legacies, hooks, and then stronger applicants than RD overall. They’ve said it clearly, that’s why rate is higher, and if they wouldn’t take you in regular than you’re not getting in ED. If they aren’t sure you’ll measure up they defer.

But this is exactly why some kids get waitlisted in RD to a school that they would have been admitted to had they ED'd. Some people here think that yield management is not a thing, but tell that to my kid, who got into Georgetown, but was waitlisted at NYU, BC, BU and American, or my nephew, who got into Brown and was waitlisted at Vanderbilt, Northwestern and NYU.

Waitlisted at American?!?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Erm, Hyde Park is not a “crappy area”. Have you even been to Chicago?

yes agree 100%

The area Is very rich an vibrant

Rich, vibrant and overrun with crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, why are people here saying that ED is not a boost at places like Brown, Penn, Columbia and Dartmouth? The numbers are pretty clear that the admissions rates at all of these schools (including Duke, Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern) are much higher in the ED round than RD because they all care about yield. In fact, we know of several people who were deferred at these schools and ultimately got in during the RD round, and I'm sure that's because they ED'd and the schools care about yield.

+1

They are ignorant. Probably applied RD anyways.

You are all missing something very important. When you filter out for athletes, and to some degree legacies and other hooks, the ED acceptance rate drops a lot, much closer to the RD acceptance rate. Committed athletes in particular are essentially required to apply ED. It's understood you will, because otherwise you're not truly "committed." At Brown, Penn and Columbia, this is a good percentage of students, and at WASP schools it's a fairly high percentage. So just looking at ED acceptance rate vs. RD acceptance rate doesn't tell you whether ED provides a boost or not. You have to take out the athletes and a handful of others to get the true rate. But, that rate isn't published anywhere. You can roughly figure it out by taking the number of athletes at the school, dividing by 4 and then taking that number out of the ED pool and recalculating the rate. But saying "The numbers are pretty clear that the admissions rates at all of these schools (including Duke, Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern) are much higher in the ED round than RD because they all care about yield" is not accurate. You have to take out those who were pre-screened and told they'd get in if they apply ED.

[Anonymous]

lol at those thinking people are ignorant stating it’s not true for some schools, umm, you’re the one that’s not well-informed. I think you might be looking at a larger number and making a giant incorrect leap based on that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC was/is a high achiever with strong (not mind-blowing ECs). Feeder magnet public. He/we got psyched out by all the chatter about kids getting screwed, and became fixed on doing ED at Chicago. Fast-forward, all his friends with similar profiles got into excellent schools- not everyone got into an Ivy, but I can only think of one kid who got "screwed" (and maybe he'll get off a waitlist in the next 6 weeks, who knows). DC should have held out instead of compromising with ED! Wish I'd tried harder to talk him out of it. Chicago is obviously not a terrible school, but the quarter system sucks, it's in a horrible neighborhood, and it's stressful. I feel certain he would have had East Coast options if he'd waited. So, rising senior parent, learn the lesson from us.

Ha! This post is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is not ED per se.

The problem is he low-balled himself in ED. He shoulda ED at the Columbia/Penn/Brown level.

The problem is he ED’ed to a school that wasn’t actually his top choice.

OP. Yes, he/we played the game. His first 3 choices were: Yale, Penn, Chicago. We felt that the odds of Yale were close to zero. Way too many amazing kids at his school. His ECs were below the level of the kids who ultimately got a Yale spot; national recognition was key. His second choice was Penn. Again, odds seemed very low. We discussed - is it worth giving up a 5% - 10% shot at Penn ED or RD for Chicago, which his GC thought was a likely match? And he was very clear that the answer was yes, he was ok with giving up the shot at Penn.

To be clear, DC hasn't expressed regret. But I feel like, if some of the potential RD options had been on the table - Cornell, Michigan, Georgetown were all somewhat but not much lower on his list - and he'd gone to visit, he might have gone to one of those instead. Closer to home and much less stressful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is not ED per se.

The problem is he low-balled himself in ED. He shoulda ED at the Columbia/Penn/Brown level.

The problem is he ED’ed to a school that wasn’t actually his top choice.

OP. Yes, he/we played the game. His first 3 choices were: Yale, Penn, Chicago. We felt that the odds of Yale were close to zero. Way too many amazing kids at his school. His ECs were below the level of the kids who ultimately got a Yale spot; national recognition was key. His second choice was Penn. Again, odds seemed very low. We discussed - is it worth giving up a 5% - 10% shot at Penn ED or RD for Chicago, which his GC thought was a likely match? And he was very clear that the answer was yes, he was ok with giving up the shot at Penn.

To be clear, DC hasn't expressed regret. But I feel like, if some of the potential RD options had been on the table - Cornell, Michigan, Georgetown were all somewhat but not much lower on his list - and he'd gone to visit, he might have gone to one of those instead. Closer to home and much less stressful.

What major?

Yale Penn UChicago are very different schools. I don’t quite get it why they can all be his first choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is not ED per se.

The problem is he low-balled himself in ED. He shoulda ED at the Columbia/Penn/Brown level.

The problem is he ED’ed to a school that wasn’t actually his top choice.

OP. Yes, he/we played the game. His first 3 choices were: Yale, Penn, Chicago. We felt that the odds of Yale were close to zero. Way too many amazing kids at his school. His ECs were below the level of the kids who ultimately got a Yale spot; national recognition was key. His second choice was Penn. Again, odds seemed very low. We discussed - is it worth giving up a 5% - 10% shot at Penn ED or RD for Chicago, which his GC thought was a likely match? And he was very clear that the answer was yes, he was ok with giving up the shot at Penn.

To be clear, DC hasn't expressed regret. But I feel like, if some of the potential RD options had been on the table - Cornell, Michigan, Georgetown were all somewhat but not much lower on his list - and he'd gone to visit, he might have gone to one of those instead. Closer to home and much less stressful.

“Much less stressful” …. That is what we glean from your post… MIT is very stressful too..
If the kid bit more than he could chew , it would indeed be stressful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, why are people here saying that ED is not a boost at places like Brown, Penn, Columbia and Dartmouth? The numbers are pretty clear that the admissions rates at all of these schools (including Duke, Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern) are much higher in the ED round than RD because they all care about yield. In fact, we know of several people who were deferred at these schools and ultimately got in during the RD round, and I'm sure that's because they ED'd and the schools care about yield.

+1

They are ignorant. Probably applied RD anyways.

You are all missing something very important. When you filter out for athletes, and to some degree legacies and other hooks, the ED acceptance rate drops a lot, much closer to the RD acceptance rate. Committed athletes in particular are essentially required to apply ED. It's understood you will, because otherwise you're not truly "committed." At Brown, Penn and Columbia, this is a good percentage of students, and at WASP schools it's a fairly high percentage. So just looking at ED acceptance rate vs. RD acceptance rate doesn't tell you whether ED provides a boost or not. You have to take out the athletes and a handful of others to get the true rate. But, that rate isn't published anywhere. You can roughly figure it out by taking the number of athletes at the school, dividing by 4 and then taking that number out of the ED pool and recalculating the rate. But saying "The numbers are pretty clear that the admissions rates at all of these schools (including Duke, Hopkins, Chicago, Northwestern) are much higher in the ED round than RD because they all care about yield" is not accurate. You have to take out those who were pre-screened and told they'd get in if they apply ED.

Correct, though each school has the same number of athletes (for D1 schools). Penn is roughly 33% larger than Brown and 11% larger than Columbia, so athletes don’t make up as large a %age. Penn is nearly 40% larger than Duke.

The slight difference in Duke is that a Power 4 conference is “always recruiting”. They still accept the vast majority by ED (many are told to apply August 1 and are formally accepted like 2 weeks later), but they will always find a spot for a 5 star recruit that decides to switch their commitment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is not ED per se.

The problem is he low-balled himself in ED. He shoulda ED at the Columbia/Penn/Brown level.

The problem is he ED’ed to a school that wasn’t actually his top choice.

OP. Yes, he/we played the game. His first 3 choices were: Yale, Penn, Chicago. We felt that the odds of Yale were close to zero. Way too many amazing kids at his school. His ECs were below the level of the kids who ultimately got a Yale spot; national recognition was key. His second choice was Penn. Again, odds seemed very low. We discussed - is it worth giving up a 5% - 10% shot at Penn ED or RD for Chicago, which his GC thought was a likely match? And he was very clear that the answer was yes, he was ok with giving up the shot at Penn.

To be clear, DC hasn't expressed regret. But I feel like, if some of the potential RD options had been on the table - Cornell, Michigan, Georgetown were all somewhat but not much lower on his list - and he'd gone to visit, he might have gone to one of those instead. Closer to home and much less stressful.

What major?

Yale Penn UChicago are very different schools. I don’t quite get it why they can all be his first choice.

Possibly economics major but not really decided. Why do you say they are so different? All midsized, Penn is also urban (and not in a dangerous area).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is not ED per se.

The problem is he low-balled himself in ED. He shoulda ED at the Columbia/Penn/Brown level.

The problem is he ED’ed to a school that wasn’t actually his top choice.

OP. Yes, he/we played the game. His first 3 choices were: Yale, Penn, Chicago. We felt that the odds of Yale were close to zero. Way too many amazing kids at his school. His ECs were below the level of the kids who ultimately got a Yale spot; national recognition was key. His second choice was Penn. Again, odds seemed very low. We discussed - is it worth giving up a 5% - 10% shot at Penn ED or RD for Chicago, which his GC thought was a likely match? And he was very clear that the answer was yes, he was ok with giving up the shot at Penn.

To be clear, DC hasn't expressed regret. But I feel like, if some of the potential RD options had been on the table - Cornell, Michigan, Georgetown were all somewhat but not much lower on his list - and he'd gone to visit, he might have gone to one of those instead. Closer to home and much less stressful.

“Much less stressful” …. That is what we glean from your post… MIT is very stressful too..
If the kid bit more than he could chew , it would indeed be stressful

He can handle the rigor, but I worry he'll regret it when his friends at other schools are enjoying the easy ride.

[Anonymous]

This thread took a twist...everyone assumed that OP is lamenting that DS low-balled with Chicago, but actually the complaint is that he passed up the chance to end up at a (still good but) less stressful school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread took a twist...everyone assumed that OP is lamenting that DS low-balled with Chicago, but actually the complaint is that he passed up the chance to end up at a (still good but) less stressful school!

I don't feel he low-balled but I think he settled/cut off options that might have been potentially a better fit if he'd had the chance to re-tour as an accepted student. He/we caved to the fear that RD would be a distaster, and based on where his peers got in, I don't think it would have been.