NYC law partner w/ kids: "$850K gross is not enough to live on"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

If you are really part of the Main Line or Westchester scene, you go to EA or Rye Country Day, so the curriculum arguments you mention don’t carry much water. Even Scarsdale and Wayne have townies.

Saying PA is poor and a wreck compared to NY speaks for itself. I’ll take the PA tax rate and slightly worse services (debatable, if you’ve been in an outer borough or upstate hospital while passing through.

Go on Zillow, see what 1.5mm gets you in Ardmore v. Scarsdale. Look at the property tax. Then go on maps and see the average commute times to downtown at 7:30am.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The COL in nyc is insane. My friends who I estimate earn 800-2m in nyc all live in a 2-3 bedroom apt. My one friend who probably earns around 500 and her DH probably earns close to 1m live in a 2 bedroom/den apt. Their daughter’s room is the “den”. This den is a wall off the living/dining room.

We live in close in dc suburbs (McLean) and live in a 15,000sf house and I’m fairly certain our house is the same price as their apt. Their kids’ rooms are smaller than my closet.

Lol. You live in a suburban McMansion. My friend who earns 800k in NYC lives in an amazing apartment overlooking Central Park with a world-class city at her feet. Square footage does not determine your quality of life no matter how proud you are of your gift wrapping room.

Exactly. High earners living in NYC don’t value square footage; they value being able to walk out their door and have one of the largest cities in the world waiting for them. If they want the big suburban home they surely can afford to move into one.

800k in nyc isn’t a “high earner” and earners of all stripes in NYc fight and tooth and nail for more space. Those with tens of millions in Manhattan (really the minimum to be considered wealthy, arguably 20mm doesn’t cut it) don’t have their kids share bedrooms or lack closet space.

There is a world of difference between a McLean McMansion and a 12k a month 2BR rental overlooking central park with a doorman. For that cost you can buy a townhouse in Georgetown or a huge spread in Brickell. Not everyone has to choose between the most urbanized area of the U.S. or some gauche suburb.

Ok well the point is, nobody of any income category should move to NYC thinking they are entitled to comparable square footage as the suburbs. OK? And of course the high salaries are mostly in NYC anyway. It’s not like you can just move your M&A law partnership to Cleveland.

There’s actually a little firm in Ohio called Jones Day. Rumor is they handle some M&A work.

Actually, someone making 10mm a year is entitled to comparable square footage and can readily afford it. NYC is designed to be the playground of 20 somethings and the global rich. If you’re not in either, you belong in the shoebox the Reddit attorney bemoans.

There are high salaries in every major city in the U.S., let’s define it as the top 50 metros. The Reddit attorney decided not to recruit in LCOL places where he could’ve made a few hundred k a year. By thinking he was good enough to live a decent life in NYC he made a fundamental error

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

If you are really part of the Main Line or Westchester scene, you go to EA or Rye Country Day, so the curriculum arguments you mention don’t carry much water. Even Scarsdale and Wayne have townies.

Saying PA is poor and a wreck compared to NY speaks for itself. I’ll take the PA tax rate and slightly worse services (debatable, if you’ve been in an outer borough or upstate hospital while passing through.

Go on Zillow, see what 1.5mm gets you in Ardmore v. Scarsdale. Look at the property tax. Then go on maps and see the average commute times to downtown at 7:30am.

Except there are no jobs in downtown Philly, and the train commutes are comparable. I grew up on the Main Line, lived in Westchester in my 30s and am now in MoCo. PA is just a much more provincial place—not comparable.

But yeah, the finance industry skews things in NYC to the extent that $850k is solid UMC and nothing more. And UMC in NYC, if you’re paying your own way, still involves a little sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

If you are really part of the Main Line or Westchester scene, you go to EA or Rye Country Day, so the curriculum arguments you mention don’t carry much water. Even Scarsdale and Wayne have townies.

Saying PA is poor and a wreck compared to NY speaks for itself. I’ll take the PA tax rate and slightly worse services (debatable, if you’ve been in an outer borough or upstate hospital while passing through.

Go on Zillow, see what 1.5mm gets you in Ardmore v. Scarsdale. Look at the property tax. Then go on maps and see the average commute times to downtown at 7:30am.

Except there are no jobs in downtown Philly, and the train commutes are comparable. I grew up on the Main Line, lived in Westchester in my 30s and am now in MoCo. PA is just a much more provincial place—not comparable.

But yeah, the finance industry skews things in NYC to the extent that $850k is solid UMC and nothing more. And UMC in NYC, if you’re paying your own way, still involves a little sacrifice.

oh please. The Reddit OP can buy a gorgeous home in Westchester, send 3 kids to a top public school, pay for college, and have plenty left over. being a law partner involves sacrifice period and that is what she chose. Spare me the tears about it being “UMC”

[Anonymous]

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I always tell people considering a 3rd (after two boys or two girls) to be very certain the reason they are having a 3rd is because they actually want a 3rd, not because they want the other sex finally. Because of the 10+ friends I know with 3 (where the first two are the same sex), only 1 got the opposite.



Lol, exactly how often do people ask you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

What on earth? I’m from the main line and my DH is from Bronxville. Many towns on the mainline are just as nice or nicer than bronxville. Also, Philly is a fantastic city. Def more of a city than DC!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

If you are really part of the Main Line or Westchester scene, you go to EA or Rye Country Day, so the curriculum arguments you mention don’t carry much water. Even Scarsdale and Wayne have townies.

Saying PA is poor and a wreck compared to NY speaks for itself. I’ll take the PA tax rate and slightly worse services (debatable, if you’ve been in an outer borough or upstate hospital while passing through.

Go on Zillow, see what 1.5mm gets you in Ardmore v. Scarsdale. Look at the property tax. Then go on maps and see the average commute times to downtown at 7:30am.

Except there are no jobs in downtown Philly, and the train commutes are comparable. I grew up on the Main Line, lived in Westchester in my 30s and am now in MoCo. PA is just a much more provincial place—not comparable.

But yeah, the finance industry skews things in NYC to the extent that $850k is solid UMC and nothing more. And UMC in NYC, if you’re paying your own way, still involves a little sacrifice.

There’s plenty of big law and large companies in Philly. The Reddit poster doesn’t seem like a dumb chap. They chose not to go to UPenn or Georgetown and target Philly firms during recruiting. No they have to live the life they lead and post desperate requests for advice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

What on earth? I’m from the main line and my DH is from Bronxville. Many towns on the mainline are just as nice or nicer than bronxville. Also, Philly is a fantastic city. Def more of a city than DC!

The nicer towns on the main line blow away anything in westchester. The cultural amenities in Philadelphia proper are also closer and more accessible. If you think high school kids in Scarsdale go to the Met (museum or opera) or Yankees game or fine dining monthly then you are out of your mind. Philly it could actually make sense time wise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bizarre to see the Main Line fetishizing on here. First of all, it’s the suburbs of a dangerous, declining city, not like NYC or DC. Pennsylvania is also a poor wreck of a state. Even the most well-heeled districts in PA are not immune to devastating budget cuts and MAGA book banners pressuring school boards. Even the train that the “Main Line” is named for is being threatened with a shutdown for financial reasons. These things are simply unthinkable in Bronxville, Rye, or yes, Scarsdale.

If you are really part of the Main Line or Westchester scene, you go to EA or Rye Country Day, so the curriculum arguments you mention don’t carry much water. Even Scarsdale and Wayne have townies.

Saying PA is poor and a wreck compared to NY speaks for itself. I’ll take the PA tax rate and slightly worse services (debatable, if you’ve been in an outer borough or upstate hospital while passing through.

Go on Zillow, see what 1.5mm gets you in Ardmore v. Scarsdale. Look at the property tax. Then go on maps and see the average commute times to downtown at 7:30am.

Except there are no jobs in downtown Philly, and the train commutes are comparable. I grew up on the Main Line, lived in Westchester in my 30s and am now in MoCo. PA is just a much more provincial place—not comparable.

But yeah, the finance industry skews things in NYC to the extent that $850k is solid UMC and nothing more. And UMC in NYC, if you’re paying your own way, still involves a little sacrifice.

oh please. The Reddit OP can buy a gorgeous home in Westchester, send 3 kids to a top public school, pay for college, and have plenty left over. being a law partner involves sacrifice period and that is what she chose. Spare me the tears about it being “UMC”

I live in westchester and this is accurate. You don’t need to spend 4 million dollars here to have a home “worth going home to.” They could send to private and live in a mediocre school district, or send to public living in a top district.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The whole post by the NYC lawyer makes no sense to me. She basically claims that her $850k per year translates into just $21k per month take home pay. Even with self funded retirement it should be close to $40k per month after tax. The poster is either dishonest or dumb.

It makes sense if you understand law partner finances. She's trying to live off the guaranteed monthly draw because the quarterly and end-of-year profit payouts can fluctuate greatly based on the business environment. We are entering into lean years, so she's rightly trying to stick to a budget.

She probably has 55%-65% of her $850K gross already accounted for by taxes, partner buy-in, health/dental/liability insurance, and retirement. And then 70% of her gross comes in the form of lumpy, inconsistent quarterly profit shares (with most of it coming in the 4th quarter). This scenario makes day-to-day financial planning very difficult. Add onto that two young kids, another on the way, and a demanding job where she really needs to prove herself in these early partner years to build her book.

She should just continue renting in the city, imho. She doesn't have the time to own a home or take on a lengthy commute to the suburbs. She will get a lot more financial breathing space once the partner buy-in payments cease.

+1 May also include deferred comp. When my spouse was a new partner it took a few years to figure out to spend/save. I have detailed analysis to see where it all goes, but you still get a surprise -- you owe $25K more in taxes, but you will see the comp over three months, four months from now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry. I'm new to how lawyers get paid. They don't create anything. Why are new lawyers getting paid $850,000 a year and complaining about it? I don't feel like they're creating anything of value. These kind of salaries seem like a tax on the people that actually do things and create things. This entire discussion reads like a bunch of parasites discussing their next victim. A completely BS profession.

You don't like lawyers suing Trump over illegal practices.
You don't like lawyers suing companies over illegal practices.
You don't like lawyers who help people win malpractice suits.
You don't like lawyers who sue companies over environmental concerns.
You don't like lawyers who help you create estate plans to help the people benefitting from your estate.
You don't like lawyers who help people wrongfully convicted of crimes.
You don't like lawyers who help people draw up business contracts and settle disputes.
And on...
Mmmkay.

[Anonymous]

Reddit is a bunch of LARPer fake posts for drama

[Anonymous]

Main Line and Westchester are not much comparison. Philadelphia is a very poor city. It has so much history and good food but the people are so provincial and often don't leave the state ever. The politics of the state are ridiculous and stuck in the 1800s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Main Line and Westchester are not much comparison. Philadelphia is a very poor city. It has so much history and good food but the people are so provincial and often don't leave the state ever. The politics of the state are ridiculous and stuck in the 1800s.

yep. Not at all the density of high-powered legal jobs as NYC. so it’s not really a comparison for most NYC partners, except in that if they believe they are “poor” in NYC then yes, maybe they need to trade some of the prestige and money of NYC for something slower paced. I went to law school in NYC and practiced in Philly at the beginning of my career and the cool thing is that most of my cohort went on to do a broad variety of interesting stuff in/around Philly (small firms, legal aid, DA, AG, opened own non-law businesses) specifically because Philly is so much more affordable and you are not locked into the law firm track the way you are in NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Main Line and Westchester are not much comparison. Philadelphia is a very poor city. It has so much history and good food but the people are so provincial and often don't leave the state ever. The politics of the state are ridiculous and stuck in the 1800s.

NYC outside of Manhattan, three areas if Brooklyn, and LIC is a very poor and ugly city (SI is certainly ugly). Most people there are provincial too, in a different way. Do you think 20 somethings in Manhattan are going to flushing for dim sum or getting hosed on cheap beer this Friday?