Adolescence on Netflix

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Yes! In the beginning he just seemed like a scared little boy. The soft parts of him were the result of the parenting they got right.

A very well done piece of art.

This was her third visit with him. She was well aware he was disturbed. He was never ever a scared little kid. He had discipline issues while being held there and she must have seen his file. If he were ugly, or went through puberty earlier, or not white people would be willing to see a sociopath.

I don’t get how people are forgetting that he stabbed a girl, then instead of being distraught or calling for help he calmly walks away, changes and disposed of his clothes and hides the murder weapon. All at 13.

He doesn’t crack when the police come or when he is interviewed by the police at the station.

When is father asks him if he did anything he looks him in the eye and and completely and convincingly lies.

Everything he does is to gain an advantage for himself.

[Anonymous]

I love technology- smart phones, computers, apps, online storage, interaction, learning, everything. That said, as a teacher (and parent) of kids from K to 12, as well as post-secondary, and watching the development of these populations from zero technology other than CDs and TV all the way to what we all use on a daily basis,I can fully say that what they have access to on a constant basis has really f***** them up. I mean really. Life will never be the same for humankind and that toothpaste will never go back into the tube.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Again: schizophrenics, bipolar, or borderlines are like this.

Is this strong possibility addressed or sounded to at all in this fictional mini series?
Haven’t seen it yet, and may not bother.

That British reindeer games series was bizarre enough.

It is not bizarre at all. More a nuanced psychological analysis of a troubled tween, from multiple perspectives.

DP
reindeer games was deliberately shock & awe bizarre.

And no, serious cluster B mental disorders were not brought up in Adolescence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Yes! In the beginning he just seemed like a scared little boy. The soft parts of him were the result of the parenting they got right.

A very well done piece of art.

This was her third visit with him. She was well aware he was disturbed. He was never ever a scared little kid. He had discipline issues while being held there and she must have seen his file. If he were ugly, or went through puberty earlier, or not white people would be willing to see a sociopath.

I don’t get how people are forgetting that he stabbed a girl, then instead of being distraught or calling for help he calmly walks away, changes and disposed of his clothes and hides the murder weapon. All at 13.

He doesn’t crack when the police come or when he is interviewed by the police at the station.

When is father asks him if he did anything he looks him in the eye and and completely and convincingly lies.

Everything he does is to gain an advantage for himself.

Agree

It’s like the Luigi Mangione effect. oh, years ago he looked like my friend group, was well educated, and is so handsome… let’s forget he went on a homicidal bender. Look, see, he’s writing nice guy letters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Yes! In the beginning he just seemed like a scared little boy. The soft parts of him were the result of the parenting they got right.

A very well done piece of art.

This was her third visit with him. She was well aware he was disturbed. He was never ever a scared little kid. He had discipline issues while being held there and she must have seen his file. If he were ugly, or went through puberty earlier, or not white people would be willing to see a sociopath.

I don’t get how people are forgetting that he stabbed a girl, then instead of being distraught or calling for help he calmly walks away, changes and disposed of his clothes and hides the murder weapon. All at 13.

He doesn’t crack when the police come or when he is interviewed by the police at the station.

When is father asks him if he did anything he looks him in the eye and and completely and convincingly lies.

Everything he does is to gain an advantage for himself.

No one is saying he's not deeply disturbed? He's also sometimes a scared kid. Admitting/accepting that he is at times a sympathetic character, or that I find his situation tragic, in no way undermines my belief that he has severe psychological issues and needs to be locked up to protect others. I think the therapist, who is using empathy as a tactic to get him to open up, is the same. They talk several times about how the other therapist just asks direct questions about what Jaime understands, but Briony wants to talk about his relationship with his dad, his internal life, his emotional experience at school. She is seeking to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Yes! In the beginning he just seemed like a scared little boy. The soft parts of him were the result of the parenting they got right.

A very well done piece of art.

This was her third visit with him. She was well aware he was disturbed. He was never ever a scared little kid. He had discipline issues while being held there and she must have seen his file. If he were ugly, or went through puberty earlier, or not white people would be willing to see a sociopath.

I don’t get how people are forgetting that he stabbed a girl, then instead of being distraught or calling for help he calmly walks away, changes and disposed of his clothes and hides the murder weapon. All at 13.

He doesn’t crack when the police come or when he is interviewed by the police at the station.

When is father asks him if he did anything he looks him in the eye and and completely and convincingly lies.

Everything he does is to gain an advantage for himself.

No one is saying he's not deeply disturbed? He's also sometimes a scared kid. Admitting/accepting that he is at times a sympathetic character, or that I find his situation tragic, in no way undermines my belief that he has severe psychological issues and needs to be locked up to protect others. I think the therapist, who is using empathy as a tactic to get him to open up, is the same. They talk several times about how the other therapist just asks direct questions about what Jaime understands, but Briony wants to talk about his relationship with his dad, his internal life, his emotional experience at school. She is seeking to understand.

She is not seeking to understand. She has been hired by the defense team to evaluate him in the hopes they can use what she finds to help in his defense.

She reminded me of special Ed teachers who teach kids eligible for special education under emotionally disturbed. They have to remain calm and neutral all while hearing truly awful things such as threats of violence, and they often get attacked (spit on, punched, kicked, things thrown at them) but the next day they go back and pretend they like the kid that did it. It’s mentally draining and physically exhausting.

Most of the kids in that program have traumatic lives or something that has happened to them but occasionally there is a kid whose siblings are typically developing, the parents have tried everything, and the kid is just wired differently. Family life revolves around the kid because everyone walks on eggshells not to set the kid off.

There is nothing so awful that happened to Jaime in comparison. He isn’t like the DI’s son who is a loner who gets trash thrown at him and regularly insulted in and out if class. Jaime has friends. He is smart enough, lacks remorse and has an explosive temperament to be truly scary. He planned to get a knife from a friend, think about changing his clothes and disposing of the knife. He enjoys having power over other people and hurting them whenever he feels wronged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Yes! In the beginning he just seemed like a scared little boy. The soft parts of him were the result of the parenting they got right.

A very well done piece of art.

This was her third visit with him. She was well aware he was disturbed. He was never ever a scared little kid. He had discipline issues while being held there and she must have seen his file. If he were ugly, or went through puberty earlier, or not white people would be willing to see a sociopath.

I don’t get how people are forgetting that he stabbed a girl, then instead of being distraught or calling for help he calmly walks away, changes and disposed of his clothes and hides the murder weapon. All at 13.

He doesn’t crack when the police come or when he is interviewed by the police at the station.

When is father asks him if he did anything he looks him in the eye and and completely and convincingly lies.

Everything he does is to gain an advantage for himself.

I am prior poster. I was not referring to the beginning of the interview, I was referring to the beginning of the whole series.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People don’t want to believe kids are born this way but a small percentage of kids really are. They just don’t have the same feelings as others.

Think of the James Bulger case where a two year old boy was kidnapped, tortured extensively, and killed by two ten year olds.

That is what the therapist completely realizes but she is hired by the defense. So she is in a quandary of how to write it up when she knows he is evil and has an explosive temper.

She would do her correct right up, submit it, and be fired. Prosecution would then hire her.

I don’t think she was hired to see if he was guilty.

They had the tape. She was supposed to figure out why. Maybe to merit a lighter sentence/sympathy?

I think she was hired to determine competency. She seemed to be trying to get at whether he understood what he had done. That's why she asks him if he understands that death is forever.

I do think she's devastated at the end because she knows how dangerous he is. He's not just a troubled boy who snapped in a moment of passion -- he planned and executed a revenge killing.

I think when he asks her if she likes him, she is sad because of course she doesn't like him, but also she recognizes that her dislike of him, like Katie's dislike of him, can only drive him further towards violence. It's a very disturbing realization.

He clearly wants love and acceptance, but now he will never get it (at least not from women like Briony) because he's shown himself to be capable of so much premeditated violence and hatred.

That's why I do think it's important in the last episode when Jaime's sister Lisa says they need to stay where they are and support Jaime, because he's theirs. Someone does have to step up and love this child. It makes sense that it's his family. That doesn't mean he'll for sure rehabilitate, but he definitely wouldn't without their love and support.

Yes all true, once you determine yours dealing with someone volatile you walk on eggshells. Doctors included.

The rest of the family’s lives are over as now they have to coddle and cater to the most dysfunctional member.

Not uncommon. The murder part is but the rest is not.

No, I think she was crying because she thought the boy was so tragic.

At that point she knew she was safe from him (he was being dragged off by a guard). She did not shudder, she cried. Someone in her field probably cares about children and she is sad that this one is so damaged.

She was crying because of how skillfully nasty and evil he was talking and being.

Oh yeah, I am sure that someone who spends her days interviewing hardened criminals cried because someone was nasty to her. 🙄

She's a child psychologist, so she probably mostly interviews kids, but I still agree. If she is being hired to do a competency assessment, she almost certainly would be spending a lot of time with kids in juvenile detention, accused of violent crimes. There's no way this would be her first experience dealing with a kid who is vicious, belligerent, or violent. I actually think what was most upsetting to her was that Jamie was NOT always like that. She clearly had conversations with him where she accessed vulnerable, kind parts of his personality.

A lot of times kids facing charges for violent crimes have very little of that left in them -- I have a good friend from law school who was a public defender and represented a lot of teens. Most of them were *hard*. A lot of them had been exposed to so much violence and trauma from such a young age (for some, probably in utero) that there was no kindness at all in them. Many likely had brain injuries from early abuse and that can alter your personality really severely.

But Jaime has a lot of moments where he seems like a typical kid, sometimes it almost seems like he feels remorse or shame, but then pushes it away. That would be such a difficult thing to witness up close. To feel like there is almost room for this kid to rehabilitate but then when they really get into discussing what he did to Katie, realizing it's almost certainly not possible. Something is broken and he is no longer able to see the moral wrongness of killing or harming a woman just because she made fun of you or made you feel bad.

Yes! In the beginning he just seemed like a scared little boy. The soft parts of him were the result of the parenting they got right.

A very well done piece of art.

This was her third visit with him. She was well aware he was disturbed. He was never ever a scared little kid. He had discipline issues while being held there and she must have seen his file. If he were ugly, or went through puberty earlier, or not white people would be willing to see a sociopath.

I don’t get how people are forgetting that he stabbed a girl, then instead of being distraught or calling for help he calmly walks away, changes and disposed of his clothes and hides the murder weapon. All at 13.

He doesn’t crack when the police come or when he is interviewed by the police at the station.

When is father asks him if he did anything he looks him in the eye and and completely and convincingly lies.

Everything he does is to gain an advantage for himself.

No one is saying he's not deeply disturbed? He's also sometimes a scared kid. Admitting/accepting that he is at times a sympathetic character, or that I find his situation tragic, in no way undermines my belief that he has severe psychological issues and needs to be locked up to protect others. I think the therapist, who is using empathy as a tactic to get him to open up, is the same. They talk several times about how the other therapist just asks direct questions about what Jaime understands, but Briony wants to talk about his relationship with his dad, his internal life, his emotional experience at school. She is seeking to understand.

She is not seeking to understand. She has been hired by the defense team to evaluate him in the hopes they can use what she finds to help in his defense.

She reminded me of special Ed teachers who teach kids eligible for special education under emotionally disturbed. They have to remain calm and neutral all while hearing truly awful things such as threats of violence, and they often get attacked (spit on, punched, kicked, things thrown at them) but the next day they go back and pretend they like the kid that did it. It’s mentally draining and physically exhausting.

Most of the kids in that program have traumatic lives or something that has happened to them but occasionally there is a kid whose siblings are typically developing, the parents have tried everything, and the kid is just wired differently. Family life revolves around the kid because everyone walks on eggshells not to set the kid off.

There is nothing so awful that happened to Jaime in comparison. He isn’t like the DI’s son who is a loner who gets trash thrown at him and regularly insulted in and out if class. Jaime has friends. He is smart enough, lacks remorse and has an explosive temperament to be truly scary. He planned to get a knife from a friend, think about changing his clothes and disposing of the knife. He enjoys having power over other people and hurting them whenever he feels wronged.

Well she is more educated and sophisticated than you.

She can’t just put in her report, “he must just be wired differently.”

People like you pretend prophet like this character are a different species of being than you or your children. That is false, but allows you to smugly condemn them with zero shred of compassion.

[Anonymous]

So what’s her diagnosis?

[Anonymous]

I am late to this thread and not sure if it was mentioned but the main character (the man not the boy) played Tommy in Snatch. I just realized it!

[Anonymous]

This show has such good acting. I’m glad they showed the perpetrator’s family fallout. A gut wrenching watch.

[Anonymous]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the psychologist wasn’t working for the defense or the prosecution.
The court system dictated that since he is a minor, the judge would need the opinions of 3 independent psychologists to provide a brief evaluation before sentencing.
I am sure her report would be the most damning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Correct me if I’m wrong, but the psychologist wasn’t working for the defense or the prosecution.
The court system dictated that since he is a minor, the judge would need the opinions of 3 independent psychologists to provide a brief evaluation before sentencing.
I am sure her report would be the most damning

This. She was also specifically asking questions to find out if he understood the consequences of what he'd done (asking him if he understood what death is, that Katie is not coming back) that indicate at least one element of her evaluation was competency to stand trial. She was a neutral observer, not trying to reach a conclusion because she was paid by one side or the other.

When Jaime tells his family in the last episode that he was changing his plea to guilty, I also assumed that was an indication that Briony (and the other people who evaluated Jaime) had likely reported that he was competent to stand trial and could understand the consequences of his actions.

Since the prosecution had a video of him stabbing the girl (with no provocation) and walking away, plus had testimony of another child who provided the knife (indicating the murder was premeditated), Jaime has almost no possible defenses other that mental incompetency. So I assumed he'd previously been pleading not guilty due to mental incompetency but when the psych evals came in, the judge either would not all or strongly recommended against it, so he pretty much had to switch to guilty.

So I think Briony was looking, as the audience was, for a psychological explanation that would show that Jaime didn't understand what he was doing, perhaps thought his violent actions could be undone or were not permanent, as they might be in a video game. But then she sees through the course of this conversation that he is coldly aware of what he's done, that he did it with intention, and that he would do it again. But I do think we are meant to understand she doesn't reach that conclusion until the interview we see.

[Anonymous]

I thought she was just there to see if he was fit to stand trial

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correct me if I’m wrong, but the psychologist wasn’t working for the defense or the prosecution.
The court system dictated that since he is a minor, the judge would need the opinions of 3 independent psychologists to provide a brief evaluation before sentencing.
I am sure her report would be the most damning

This. She was also specifically asking questions to find out if he understood the consequences of what he'd done (asking him if he understood what death is, that Katie is not coming back) that indicate at least one element of her evaluation was competency to stand trial. She was a neutral observer, not trying to reach a conclusion because she was paid by one side or the other.

When Jaime tells his family in the last episode that he was changing his plea to guilty, I also assumed that was an indication that Briony (and the other people who evaluated Jaime) had likely reported that he was competent to stand trial and could understand the consequences of his actions.

Since the prosecution had a video of him stabbing the girl (with no provocation) and walking away, plus had testimony of another child who provided the knife (indicating the murder was premeditated), Jaime has almost no possible defenses other that mental incompetency. So I assumed he'd previously been pleading not guilty due to mental incompetency but when the psych evals came in, the judge either would not all or strongly recommended against it, so he pretty much had to switch to guilty.

So I think Briony was looking, as the audience was, for a psychological explanation that would show that Jaime didn't understand what he was doing, perhaps thought his violent actions could be undone or were not permanent, as they might be in a video game. But then she sees through the course of this conversation that he is coldly aware of what he's done, that he did it with intention, and that he would do it again. But I do think we are meant to understand she doesn't reach that conclusion until the interview we see.

Really?
The psych reports were for the judge, not prosecution or defense?
I thought that his defense was being handled by other people and he most likely was not that aware of the severity of consequences of the legal system.
He is 13 in this series and Britain has a different system with regards to competency to stand trial in a youth court