1590 test score what would be good reach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Does anyone else think the entire process is a load of BS?

In what way? The whole "tell us a story", make yourself compelling, tie everything together and be memorable?

Or something else?

It seems like the way a kid is packaged, likely by paid consultants, matters more than the kid's actual abilities. Distorting your achievements, creating narratives, and talking big matter way too much. It feels like another incarnation of having your parents create a fake nonprofit that does almost nothing and disappears the moment you're accepted into college.

Maybe? I think they spend so little time on the applications (4-8 min) you really have to grab them. If it ties together well, it makes their job of advocating for you in committee really easy. If it doesn't tie together well, they have to spend more time on notes, more time re-reading and trying to "find something unique" - and tbh they probably just move on.

Isn't this how all recruiting works? Even for jobs? It is in my industry.

That is how you get tall handsome men in the top jobs, rather than the most skilled candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

No one is prohibiting TJ kids from applying to humanities. What are you implying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

No one is prohibiting TJ kids from applying to humanities. What are you implying?

I'm guessing the AOs in the YouTube video would have said that the TJ kid showed insufficient passion for the humanities because they took a lot of math. One was surprised the kid could write well for a stem kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

No one is prohibiting TJ kids from applying to humanities. What are you implying?

I'm guessing the AOs in the YouTube video would have said that the TJ kid showed insufficient passion for the humanities because they took a lot of math. One was surprised the kid could write well for a stem kid.

Is Econ a humanities? I think it’s a social science? But either way I think you’re right there was not enough evidence and the Supp essays lacked depth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

No one is prohibiting TJ kids from applying to humanities. What are you implying?

I'm guessing the AOs in the YouTube video would have said that the TJ kid showed insufficient passion for the humanities because they took a lot of math. One was surprised the kid could write well for a stem kid.

Is Econ a humanities? I think it’s a social science? But either way I think you’re right there was not enough evidence and the Supp essays lacked depth.

I'm not saying there's not enough evidence. I think the AOs are not open minded and view the application with prejudice. They think the kid is just a stem nerd. Maybe if the kid was less accomplished, went to a less famous school, and got a professional to write their answers conveying a manufactured passion for some humanity subject, they would have done better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

No one is prohibiting TJ kids from applying to humanities. What are you implying?

I'm guessing the AOs in the YouTube video would have said that the TJ kid showed insufficient passion for the humanities because they took a lot of math. One was surprised the kid could write well for a stem kid.

Is Econ a humanities? I think it’s a social science? But either way I think you’re right there was not enough evidence and the Supp essays lacked depth.

Who knows. The college counselor above wants to kid to describe math as a social justice issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Take-away is not to send your kid to TJ. Another thread saw Sidwell sends 25% kids to ivy plus, 75% to t50 schools. Much much easier college process at Sidwell.

That might have more to do with their parents' connections, which many TJ kids lack.

Look at the “listed major” differentiation at private schools versus schools like TJ.

There’s a much heavier swing towards the humanities at privates. Who do you think that helps?

No one is prohibiting TJ kids from applying to humanities. What are you implying?

I'm guessing the AOs in the YouTube video would have said that the TJ kid showed insufficient passion for the humanities because they took a lot of math. One was surprised the kid could write well for a stem kid.

Is Econ a humanities? I think it’s a social science? But either way I think you’re right there was not enough evidence and the Supp essays lacked depth.

I'm not saying there's not enough evidence. I think the AOs are not open minded and view the application with prejudice. They think the kid is just a stem nerd. Maybe if the kid was less accomplished, went to a less famous school, and got a professional to write their answers conveying a manufactured passion for some humanity subject, they would have done better.

But that kid just doesn’t seem like a Yale kid? I think that’s what other people were getting it. Yale kids are interdisciplinary and very heavily focused on the liberal arts. That’s their MO even with stem majors.

Seems like an afterthought app for this kid?

[Anonymous]

To the OP - if Dartmouth is what you are interested in, listen to Admissions Beat.

Today's episode mentions a personal essay "about finding God hiking in the rain" - for a kid who was interested in environmental causes, sustainability, global warming, climate change and tying those interests to the kid's personal values as a man of faith (his tagline in admissions that Lee Coffin uses "a man of faith who cares about the environment" was essentially typed into a rationale that led to the "word admit at the end of the file")....it really is about synthesizing your application into something easy to digest and process.

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From a med Anthro perspective, talking about measles in refugee and immigrant populations is very of the moment.

If into enviro science though, I’d go the community gardens, medicinal plants and natural wilderness medicine route. Great easy & natural way to combine the two disparate interests into a compelling and memorable story.
Make sure kid took Enviro Sci and see if kid can take Anthro next year or this summer? Think Brown & Penn offer it.

OP here. "combine the two disparate interests into a compelling and memorable story". I didn't get it. How would you combine them easily? Could you elaborate a little bit more?

Enviro science and medicine intersect in a lot of ways. You would create a story/narrative/admissions hook/whatever you want to call it based around the intersection of the two as part of the kid's story (assuming this is his interest bc he co-founded the enviro club??)

How? Our environment directly impacts our health, and understanding these connections can help show a holistic approach to healthcare.

How to combine these 2 interests in a college application:

ACTIVITIES
- Study medicinal plants: Document local plants with medicinal properties, research their traditional uses, and connect this to modern pharmacology. This combines botany (environmental science) with medical applications.
- Community garden health initiatives: Help establish or work with gardens that grow nutritious food for underserved communities, connecting environmental sustainability with nutritional health and food-as-medicine concepts.
- Wilderness medicine: Take wilderness first aid courses and volunteer with outdoor organizations. This combines environmental knowledge with practical medical skills.
- Environmental health research: Study how environmental factors (air/water quality, climate change) affect human health in your community. Collect data, interview residents, and propose solutions.
- Conservation medicine: Focus on the intersection of ecosystem health and human health - for example, how habitat destruction leads to disease emergence.
[NOTE: google these for summer programs and other local ideas - in my community there's a BUNCH of stuff to volunteer for like this. Also EMTs and outdoor wilderness medicine courses this summer]

TRANSCRIPT
Taking Environmental Science is excellent groundwork
An Anthropology course (especially medical anthropology) would strengthen this narrative - I think Brown and Penn both offer summer anthropology programs for high schoolers.

ESSAYS
Might cover an EC experience or something learned in the class?

HOW OR WHY DOES THIS WORK?
It may not, but if its authentic (and your kid wants to do it and has passion for it) it can show the AdCom that the your kid doesn't just want to be a doctor, but someone who understands health through multiple lenses. This is a kid who can think critically about emerging challenges at the intersection of environment and medicine. Certain colleges (looking at you Northwestern and Brown) love kids who combine two totally different fields together.

On Earth Day!!!
For the OP: If your kid applies to Dartmouth, here's the "tagline":
A student-healer who sees our environment as the greatest medical textbook ever written.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the OP - if Dartmouth is what you are interested in, listen to Admissions Beat.

Today's episode mentions a personal essay "about finding God hiking in the rain" - for a kid who was interested in environmental causes, sustainability, global warming, climate change and tying those interests to the kid's personal values as a man of faith (his tagline in admissions that Lee Coffin uses "a man of faith who cares about the environment" was essentially typed into a rationale that led to the "word admit at the end of the file")....it really is about synthesizing your application into something easy to digest and process.

Wow.

Deep for a 17yo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Does anyone else think the entire process is a load of BS?

In what way? The whole "tell us a story", make yourself compelling, tie everything together and be memorable?

Or something else?

NP. It sounds like they want the TJ kid to have the equivalent of a math Ph.d before applying to university. They don't seem to understand much about economics or math, and then focus on whether the written statements make them smile. I worked as an economist and a huge percentage of my colleagues were engineering, physics, chemistry and math majors who switched to economics as post grads. They never even considered econ in high school.

The AOs seem to enjoy the power they have as AOs. A lot of the ones we encountered when touring colleges majored in subjects that didn't allow them to make big money elsewhere, and being an AO gave them some status

Can you apply to college and say you're interested in anthropology or actuarial accounting when these things aren't even subjects in high school? Can you say you want to explore new subjects and discover your life's purpose without already's having undertaken post grad level research in these subjects as a 17 year old.

I'm not surprised that another poster's high scoring kid is going to the UK.

But in holistic admissions, scores aren't actually the end all be all. They know the kids can succeed and do that work. That's not the point of this process in determining whether to admit a student.

There is a standard they expect from a TJ kid (they say that - they are expecting research and use of the additional info section. They say they expect the same from Andover and Exeter). Imo they couldn't see what excites that kid beyond the math in the personal statement. it wasn't clear how that excitement translated at Yale and only Yale. Top colleges want kids who are excited and moved and passionate about something AND how they see their passion connecting on campus.

The TJ kid didn't realize the defining feature of Yale's curriculum....(why they want to study math in a liberal arts context). Also why did they choose economics?

Yale's Mathematics department is looking for pure mathematical talent, which this student clearly possesses, but the Economics department may have been looking for different experiences that weren't as strongly represented in their application (I think the primary major they applied to was "Economics and Mathematics" which is the problem - it wasn't Mathematics or Applied Mathematics. A more strategic approach would have been applying as a Mathematics major with Statistics as a secondary interest.

If it was my kid, I would have made sure they integrated how math is a true humanities discipline and a critical part of educating the whole person (could also tie into long term goal as an educator). Perhaps connecting to philosophy (minor in phil?) Did the application mention the Yale Education Studies certificate? If not, that was a miss. For yale, its important to frame mathematics educations as a social justice issue.

Aren't you allowed to double major at Yale? Will they throw out your application if you want to study math and art history because the departments want different things. Aren't you allowed to try new subjects in a liberal arts degree? There's nothing wrong with Math and Economics. You cannot do well in higher level Econ without a strong math background. With a strong theoretical background, you might do some ground breaking research. Framing pure math as a social justice issue though? Give me a break.

I picked up econ in my last year of high school because it was the only thing that fit into my schedule. I ended up with a career in that area but these AOs would have said I'd displayed insufficient interest.

The AO who said that the student wrote well, which he didn't expect from a stem kid, was incredibly biased. One of my kids went to TJ and all the non stem classes were taught to a much higher level than at the base school my other kid attended.

I was surprised one of them liked the essay about counting eggs as a kid. I would have rolled my eyes into the back of my head reading that.

Ofc you can double major.
But remember, for purposes of admissions, they are ONLY looking at the first thing you list. That's what you NEED evidence for. Everywhere.

Study math and art history, but if you list it, you better have enough proof for why you want to study it. I mean, every other compelling candidate will, so your application just looks....lazy without the evidence. They aren't just going to "believe you". You need to prove it.

And of course, study a wide variety of things - but this is your PRIMARY major.
The kid chose wrong. I've seen it so much of this in this cycle, with kids choosing majors they shouldn't have, where they lack the evidence to be really competitive. Choosing aspirationally. No, you choose reflectively - look and see what your application supports.

Are you a college counselor?

If you want to get in, maybe the strategy should be to choose some unpopular major and write some BS stories to support your "passion" for this subject, then change classes as soon as you get there.

Many try that every year. Few succeed. You can find question about that strategy and the subsequent whining all over Reddit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an old thread on here - but was locked or deleted - on a TJ kid whose profile was reviewed on a podcast - former Yale AO I think.

Eye-opening how brutal the process is.

think it was this one. You can see why the TJ kid had a mediocre unconnected application, notwithstanding top stats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-9A4eyDoG8

Does anyone else think the entire process is a load of BS?

In what way? The whole "tell us a story", make yourself compelling, tie everything together and be memorable?

Or something else?

NP. It sounds like they want the TJ kid to have the equivalent of a math Ph.d before applying to university. They don't seem to understand much about economics or math, and then focus on whether the written statements make them smile. I worked as an economist and a huge percentage of my colleagues were engineering, physics, chemistry and math majors who switched to economics as post grads. They never even considered econ in high school.

The AOs seem to enjoy the power they have as AOs. A lot of the ones we encountered when touring colleges majored in subjects that didn't allow them to make big money elsewhere, and being an AO gave them some status

Can you apply to college and say you're interested in anthropology or actuarial accounting when these things aren't even subjects in high school? Can you say you want to explore new subjects and discover your life's purpose without already's having undertaken post grad level research in these subjects as a 17 year old.

I'm not surprised that another poster's high scoring kid is going to the UK.

But in holistic admissions, scores aren't actually the end all be all. They know the kids can succeed and do that work. That's not the point of this process in determining whether to admit a student.

There is a standard they expect from a TJ kid (they say that - they are expecting research and use of the additional info section. They say they expect the same from Andover and Exeter). Imo they couldn't see what excites that kid beyond the math in the personal statement. it wasn't clear how that excitement translated at Yale and only Yale. Top colleges want kids who are excited and moved and passionate about something AND how they see their passion connecting on campus.

The TJ kid didn't realize the defining feature of Yale's curriculum....(why they want to study math in a liberal arts context). Also why did they choose economics?

Yale's Mathematics department is looking for pure mathematical talent, which this student clearly possesses, but the Economics department may have been looking for different experiences that weren't as strongly represented in their application (I think the primary major they applied to was "Economics and Mathematics" which is the problem - it wasn't Mathematics or Applied Mathematics. A more strategic approach would have been applying as a Mathematics major with Statistics as a secondary interest.

If it was my kid, I would have made sure they integrated how math is a true humanities discipline and a critical part of educating the whole person (could also tie into long term goal as an educator). Perhaps connecting to philosophy (minor in phil?) Did the application mention the Yale Education Studies certificate? If not, that was a miss. For yale, its important to frame mathematics educations as a social justice issue.

Aren't you allowed to double major at Yale? Will they throw out your application if you want to study math and art history because the departments want different things. Aren't you allowed to try new subjects in a liberal arts degree? There's nothing wrong with Math and Economics. You cannot do well in higher level Econ without a strong math background. With a strong theoretical background, you might do some ground breaking research. Framing pure math as a social justice issue though? Give me a break.

I picked up econ in my last year of high school because it was the only thing that fit into my schedule. I ended up with a career in that area but these AOs would have said I'd displayed insufficient interest.

The AO who said that the student wrote well, which he didn't expect from a stem kid, was incredibly biased. One of my kids went to TJ and all the non stem classes were taught to a much higher level than at the base school my other kid attended.

I was surprised one of them liked the essay about counting eggs as a kid. I would have rolled my eyes into the back of my head reading that.

Ofc you can double major.
But remember, for purposes of admissions, they are ONLY looking at the first thing you list. That's what you NEED evidence for. Everywhere.

Study math and art history, but if you list it, you better have enough proof for why you want to study it. I mean, every other compelling candidate will, so your application just looks....lazy without the evidence. They aren't just going to "believe you". You need to prove it.

And of course, study a wide variety of things - but this is your PRIMARY major.
The kid chose wrong. I've seen it so much of this in this cycle, with kids choosing majors they shouldn't have, where they lack the evidence to be really competitive. Choosing aspirationally. No, you choose reflectively - look and see what your application supports.

Discussion of that TJ kid /poscast here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the OP - if Dartmouth is what you are interested in, listen to Admissions Beat.

Today's episode mentions a personal essay "about finding God hiking in the rain" - for a kid who was interested in environmental causes, sustainability, global warming, climate change and tying those interests to the kid's personal values as a man of faith (his tagline in admissions that Lee Coffin uses "a man of faith who cares about the environment" was essentially typed into a rationale that led to the "word admit at the end of the file")....it really is about synthesizing your application into something easy to digest and process.

Wow.

Oh lord.

[Anonymous]

A good reach for one with a 1590 SAT score would be for a 1610.