Are students unhappy at CMU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s funny that the only acceptable answer to the question that parents here have about where my kid should go to make (literally 1/3) more money than their colleagues in the same field is: well, obviously they have to go to HYP. Actually no. But people don’t want to believe that HYP no longer reliably delivers on the income front. (Unless you’re already rich and join your father’s company.).
I have really good friends who are HYP grads. Some aren’t doing so well, income -wise these days. The pedigree doesn’t have the power it used to have. They will tell you that in confidence.
I’m just saying that parents really need to get over their obsession with the Ivy League. It’s lovely that your kids got in. Yay you. You earned it (unless you bought your way in). Your kids will never say “meh” when you ask them “how is Harvard?” If they did, you would think they are ungrateful or bonkers. (But my Harvard grad nephew said exactly that to me.)
No kid is ever going to tell you that they were miserable at Harvard or Yale or Princeton! There are free ski trips! Lobster dinners in gorgeous venues! It’s seductive. But, it’s a fact that their CS CMU colleagues make 1/3 more money after graduation. There are other places where grads do really well too.
PS. I taught at Harvard, have a grad certificate from Princeton. Two family members who are Harvard Law grads (one first in his class). An uncle who graduated from Penn. Lots of Ivy exposure. It’s fine for those who lust after it. And it’s not everything.
The CMU faculty actually love their students and love teaching. Yes it’s hard work. Some kids actually thrive on that. And don’t tell me that Pittsburgh sucks. They’ve never been to Primanti’s? They’ve never been to a performance of CMU’s theater dept? Leslie Odom Jr. (Hamilton original cast member) performed there! (His Xmas album - gorgeous!). Well, that’s on them if they’re missing out.

I hate having fries inside my sandwich…so I can’t say I appreciate Primanti’s. However, Pittsburgh has many great restaurants and neighborhoods. UPitt was actually the western PA campus of UPenn back in the day.

BTW, no school has ever been a ticket to high income since probably the 1950s. These schools (including CMU) are target schools for many high paying industries, so the opportunities are there if that is what you are after.

[Anonymous]

Fair enough. My point wasn't that any particular school is a ticket to a higher income these days. It's the (motivated by bias?) discounting of actual data that's weird to me. Anyway.
While I'm here .. isn't it strange that people don't complain about the even darker, even colder, even snowier days at Dartmouth? Hanover is a very small (though charming) town. I've been there. The food isn't great. Not near any urban centers. There's skiing and frats. Maybe it's a school for winter sports jocks? Which is fine. But still immune from disdain because it's Ivy? Just wondering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fair enough. My point wasn't that any particular school is a ticket to a higher income these days. It's the (motivated by bias?) discounting of actual data that's weird to me. Anyway.
While I'm here .. isn't it strange that people don't complain about the even darker, even colder, even snowier days at Dartmouth? Hanover is a very small (though charming) town. I've been there. The food isn't great. Not near any urban centers. There's skiing and frats. Maybe it's a school for winter sports jocks? Which is fine. But still immune from disdain because it's Ivy? Just wondering.

Probably because that is why you go there (as well as all the Maine SLACs)…it’s a selling point for those that want the ideallic New England college.

It’s also not know for being a grind school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about this also. Why would CMU be more of a pressure cooker than any other selective college. Aren't all of the top schools hard, particularly for STEM majors?

its worse.

My kid (an athlete) is a senior at a different school in the same conference as CMU. This conference includes- NYU, Emory, Wash U, U Chicago, Case, Rochester- I have heard that CMU case work is more than these other schools. I always heard that UChicago was were fun goes to die, but maybe it is really CMU.

Chicago's slogan was always tongue-in-cheek to an extent. It's certainly no Florida State, but I get the sense things have improved.

CMU has just gotten worse and worse over the last few decades. Rochester is pretty abysmal too from what I hear.

Rochester is not abysmal. Sure it's not a city most kids plan to stay in after college (unless you work for the university), but it's a good city with lots to do. Campus is amazing and the school is great. More importantly, it's not a grind school. yes the kids are smart and work hard, but most have fun as well. Also, it filled with kids who pursue other interests than just their major. They pursue multiple passions and the school encourages it. But it's definately not a Grind like CMU (attended CMU for grad school and have a kid at UR now in engineering).
Yes, if Rochester were to be in Chicago or say Boston, they would be a reach school (with sub 20% acceptance rates) just like CWRU would be as well

To me, it seems as if Rochester and Case Western are weirdly undervalued these days. Great schools in great locations.

Yes! There were my kid's ultimate top 2 (after all admissions had settled). Both cities were much better than I had anticipated. My kid liked the rochester area better. UR campus is mostly self contained and has an ivy look/feel for the campus. CWRU is in Cleveland proper and is literally in the heart of things with a major road dividing the campus.

But if you just consider the school itself (and not the fact that yeah it's Cleveland or rochester) they are amazing schools. My kid has a friend at CWRU who loves it and my kid is at UR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about this also. Why would CMU be more of a pressure cooker than any other selective college. Aren't all of the top schools hard, particularly for STEM majors?

its worse.

My kid (an athlete) is a senior at a different school in the same conference as CMU. This conference includes- NYU, Emory, Wash U, U Chicago, Case, Rochester- I have heard that CMU case work is more than these other schools. I always heard that UChicago was were fun goes to die, but maybe it is really CMU.

Chicago's slogan was always tongue-in-cheek to an extent. It's certainly no Florida State, but I get the sense things have improved.

CMU has just gotten worse and worse over the last few decades. Rochester is pretty abysmal too from what I hear.

Rochester is not abysmal. Sure it's not a city most kids plan to stay in after college (unless you work for the university), but it's a good city with lots to do. Campus is amazing and the school is great. More importantly, it's not a grind school. yes the kids are smart and work hard, but most have fun as well. Also, it filled with kids who pursue other interests than just their major. They pursue multiple passions and the school encourages it. But it's definately not a Grind like CMU (attended CMU for grad school and have a kid at UR now in engineering).
Yes, if Rochester were to be in Chicago or say Boston, they would be a reach school (with sub 20% acceptance rates) just like CWRU would be as well

To me, it seems as if Rochester and Case Western are weirdly undervalued these days. Great schools in great locations.

Yes! There were my kid's ultimate top 2 (after all admissions had settled). Both cities were much better than I had anticipated. My kid liked the rochester area better. UR campus is mostly self contained and has an ivy look/feel for the campus. CWRU is in Cleveland proper and is literally in the heart of things with a major road dividing the campus.

But if you just consider the school itself (and not the fact that yeah it's Cleveland or rochester) they are amazing schools. My kid has a friend at CWRU who loves it and my kid is at UR

I wouldn’t say CWRU is in the “heart” of things. It felt like the equivalent of AU being in the heart of DC (which it isn’t).

I know kids there that like it. It’s fine.

[Anonymous]

I love hearing this about Rochester and Cleveland! I interviewed for a faculty position at RIT and the people in Rochester were so nice! I needed more lab space and accepted an offer at a larger university where the people weren't as nice My NIH grant demanded a bigger lab. Wish I could have taught there. The faculty there love it.
Re: Cleveland. Love that city. Visited often as my parents were into the symphony (George Szell! Severance Hall! Blossom Music Center in the summer! Mother was even briefly on the board.) and the superb art museum. I actually used the computers at CWRU in my research career because they were "state of the art." Faculty were very generous.
My husband was offered a great job at a law firm in Cleveland right out of law school. He told me that he regretted turning it down because they were so nice! (He turned it down because he wanted to be closer to his family)
"Midwest nice" is still a very real thing, thank god.
(PS Tim Walz reminds me of my favorite teachers when I growing up in PA. Hi Mr. Durisko, and Mrs. Anderson, and so many more..)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fair enough. My point wasn't that any particular school is a ticket to a higher income these days. It's the (motivated by bias?) discounting of actual data that's weird to me. Anyway.
While I'm here .. isn't it strange that people don't complain about the even darker, even colder, even snowier days at Dartmouth? Hanover is a very small (though charming) town. I've been there. The food isn't great. Not near any urban centers. There's skiing and frats. Maybe it's a school for winter sports jocks? Which is fine. But still immune from disdain because it's Ivy? Just wondering.

Not PP: Dartmouth is not immune from disdain. Not the many thread here about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious about this also. Why would CMU be more of a pressure cooker than any other selective college. Aren't all of the top schools hard, particularly for STEM majors?

its worse.

My kid (an athlete) is a senior at a different school in the same conference as CMU. This conference includes- NYU, Emory, Wash U, U Chicago, Case, Rochester- I have heard that CMU case work is more than these other schools. I always heard that UChicago was were fun goes to die, but maybe it is really CMU.

Chicago's slogan was always tongue-in-cheek to an extent. It's certainly no Florida State, but I get the sense things have improved.

CMU has just gotten worse and worse over the last few decades. Rochester is pretty abysmal too from what I hear.

Rochester is not abysmal. Sure it's not a city most kids plan to stay in after college (unless you work for the university), but it's a good city with lots to do. Campus is amazing and the school is great. More importantly, it's not a grind school. yes the kids are smart and work hard, but most have fun as well. Also, it filled with kids who pursue other interests than just their major. They pursue multiple passions and the school encourages it. But it's definately not a Grind like CMU (attended CMU for grad school and have a kid at UR now in engineering).
Yes, if Rochester were to be in Chicago or say Boston, they would be a reach school (with sub 20% acceptance rates) just like CWRU would be as well

To me, it seems as if Rochester and Case Western are weirdly undervalued these days. Great schools in great locations.

+1 for Rochester (can’t speak to CWRU)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CMU is very rigorous and highly respected. One of the reasons why students don't rave about their experience there is that there is much less ego-stroking of the students by the faculty. Faculty members don't tell their students that they are the future masters of the universe. You can actually listen to lectures at Yale that begin with the professors telling the students "you'll want to know this information when you sit on the boards of international banks." That doesn't happen at CMU. Humility. It's a rare and undervalued commodity, until CMU grads get into the real world, when they start quietly wiping the floor with their ego-inflated Ivy graduate colleagues.

Haha you wish

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:just dont get why parents send their kids to places like Cornell, CMU.

all downside.. weather, hard academics, no life

because a lot of people are brand whores.

I thought the School of Drama is supposed to be legitimately top-notch?

Safe to say nobody commenting here had a kid that was at CMU for the Drama/Theatre program. I would imagine a 100% different experience.

The program is top-notch. Grads include Ethan Hawke, Ted Danson and a gazillion others. I believe Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes kid is now there in the Arts program.

The hardest admit for the school.

😂😂😂😂😂😂 yeah no. theater is not a harder admit than CS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:just dont get why parents send their kids to places like Cornell, CMU.

all downside.. weather, hard academics, no life

because a lot of people are brand whores.

I thought the School of Drama is supposed to be legitimately top-notch?

Safe to say nobody commenting here had a kid that was at CMU for the Drama/Theatre program. I would imagine a 100% different experience.

The program is top-notch. Grads include Ethan Hawke, Ted Danson and a gazillion others. I believe Tom Cruise/Katie Holmes kid is now there in the Arts program.

The hardest admit for the school.

😂😂😂😂😂😂 yeah no. theater is not a harder admit than CS

A number of the theater programs have a 2% acceptance rate. I believe that is lower than CS…of course the programs are tiny…only 12-14 kids per year for say the musical theatre program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon and Rochester are both pretty grim. Not places I’d send my kid. Kinda like Hopkins. Great schools with depressed/stressed out undergrads. Chicago is different. Tough love but getting more cuddly, plus they’re in a world class city and not…
Pittsburgh, Baltimore or Rochester!

This is intriguing to me. PP, how is Chicago getting more cuddly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Carnegie Mellon and Rochester are both pretty grim. Not places I’d send my kid. Kinda like Hopkins. Great schools with depressed/stressed out undergrads. Chicago is different. Tough love but getting more cuddly, plus they’re in a world class city and not…
Pittsburgh, Baltimore or Rochester!

This is intriguing to me. PP, how is Chicago getting more cuddly?

I'd like to know this, too. My DC asked me to take Chicago, CMU, Hopkins, and Swarthmore off their list because pre-med will be stressful enough without being in a hyper competitive, miserable environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard people laugh about how you can tell the difference between a CMU student vs. a Pitt student. A smile!

There’s a lot of truth to this. The demeanor of CMU students is noticeably dour compared to Pitt students. It is quite striking when the schools are so close to each other. Pitt is not as intense and most of the fun stuff in Oakland is adjacent to Pitt and a bit of a hike from CMU.

[Anonymous]

CMU is not unnecessarily hard. It seems hard because many universities artificially reduce courses rigor to accommodate the increased unreadiness of nowadays high school graduates. There are big portion of CMU students graduate with high honor. More importantly, CMU students are trained to get jobs done. The practicality and reliability is highly valued in work place, but disdained by many individuals as outdated qualities.