Unpopular opinion - elective c-sections

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

This.

I avoided C-Section because it’s contraindicated for my medical history other than a life or death emergency. But if I knew how absolutely appalling postpartum care is, I would have been even more adamant. In what other possible universe is a patient responsible for the feeding and toileting of another patient hours or minutes after surgery/birth???

I will never ever forget being in tears waiting for the nurses to come to bring me to the bathroom after I fainted the first time unaccompanied and they put me on a fall warning (had they read the chart I would have been on the fall warning to begin with…). The idea that I’d have been waiting that long pushing a button for a post-surgical complication gives me chills.

Yes to all this. It's truly insane that c section patients don't really get any care or instructions -- what other surgical patient would have that treatment?

I needed a scar revision surgery after my second c section (to disconnect an adhesion to my abdominal muscles) and the pre and post op care I
received for that was so far beyond what happened after my c sections. One week of bed rest, compression garments, massage, 6 weeks until I could exercise, silicone tape , etc etc. The post op instructions were 13 pages long, and this was a one -hour long out patient procedure (that fixed my c section shelf, btw). If anyone gave my guidance after my c section, I missed it.

C sections are a rational choice for some people. But post partum care in this country is horrible.

That's not the worst of it. There is an ultrasound that would risk stratify rupture risk in labor for VBAC that obstetrics studiously ignores the existence of, probably because it would out obstetricians who are crappy surgeons

I think there are literally 10,000s if not 100,000s of women who have symptomatic C section isthmoceles or uterine infertility who's symptoms are being ignored (mine were) or who are spending $10,000s on fertility treatments futilely

Can you provide more info on this because I'm actually waffling between a vbac and an elective C-section. Essentially I have my c-section scheduled but the agreement right now is that if I go into labor prior to that then I'm going to TOLAC.
If there's another test I should be looking into to help make that decision I would love to know about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

This.

I avoided C-Section because it’s contraindicated for my medical history other than a life or death emergency. But if I knew how absolutely appalling postpartum care is, I would have been even more adamant. In what other possible universe is a patient responsible for the feeding and toileting of another patient hours or minutes after surgery/birth???

I will never ever forget being in tears waiting for the nurses to come to bring me to the bathroom after I fainted the first time unaccompanied and they put me on a fall warning (had they read the chart I would have been on the fall warning to begin with…). The idea that I’d have been waiting that long pushing a button for a post-surgical complication gives me chills.

Thank you for saying this. I thought I was taking crazy pills being the only person to notice. My DH was excluded from the post-partum floor because he wouldn't take a certain safe and effective intervention. I had 2 babies via C section and no help, other than the nurses. I left AMA after 24 hours both times. Literally nobody cared in the hospital. Really disturbing experience how little nurses and doctors care. You're just one less person buzzing the call button, buh bye, don't let the door hit you on the @$$.

I figured out how to raise the bed all the way, which made it much easier for me to retrieve the baby from the bassinet. The nurse b-----d me out for doing that. I was literally paralyzed from the waste down and expected to feed and diaper an hour's old infant. Don't even get me started on the sleep deprivation torture.

I had the exact same experience. It was a complete nightmare. The nurses seemed sadistic and wouldn't lift a finger to help me. I didn't have any milk for the first few days and they wouldn't give him a bottle even though his blood sugar was critically low. Something to do with being "baby-friendly" ---they gave him a glucose IV instead. You read that right. I think I was hallucinating I was so exhausted and I was hooked up to a catheter so I couldn't even walk around.

[Anonymous]

Just for interest's sake I'd like to share how my sister gave birth in Japan. Husbands do not stay for more than short visits. They understand that most husbands are not able to be helpful with newborns! You stay for a week and all the women on the floor meet several times a day for classes taught by the nurses on baby care and breastfeeding. She said it was wonderful for her mental health to be around all these women in the same boat and get reassurance about how to care for her new baby. And of course they take the baby while you sleep but everyone still manages to breastfeed! Obviously this is more useful for a first time mom and she didn't do it all the second time.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the whole thread but I've had two Cs and totally agree OP. First was medically indicated and second they give you a choice and I chose it over VBAC. Everyone should have that choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience.
I had elective section at sibley pre pandemic. I felt very well cared for and was able to send baby to the nursery overnight to get some rest. The nurses were angels. I was there 4 nights and almost didn’t want to leave lol

Alot of hospitals are """"""""baby friendly""""""""" which means mandatory rooming-in with mom if they are not NICU babies. I had my baby who was resuscitated after a 1min APGAR score of 3 (he did not even have full points for pulse) in a """"""""baby friendly""""""""" hospital. They needed the room for another mom so they rushed us out, and he was on the post-partum floor with inadequate supervision. If he coded again he would have died because I was dog tired and asleep.

Pp here. I’m so sorry. I hope he was ok.

Yes, I was well aware of the baby friendly designations. Thus I sought out a dr with a reputation for being open minded for elective sections who delivered at sibley. I actually did most of my research here on dcum lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

This.

I avoided C-Section because it’s contraindicated for my medical history other than a life or death emergency. But if I knew how absolutely appalling postpartum care is, I would have been even more adamant. In what other possible universe is a patient responsible for the feeding and toileting of another patient hours or minutes after surgery/birth???

I will never ever forget being in tears waiting for the nurses to come to bring me to the bathroom after I fainted the first time unaccompanied and they put me on a fall warning (had they read the chart I would have been on the fall warning to begin with…). The idea that I’d have been waiting that long pushing a button for a post-surgical complication gives me chills.

Yes to all this. It's truly insane that c section patients don't really get any care or instructions -- what other surgical patient would have that treatment?

I needed a scar revision surgery after my second c section (to disconnect an adhesion to my abdominal muscles) and the pre and post op care I
received for that was so far beyond what happened after my c sections. One week of bed rest, compression garments, massage, 6 weeks until I could exercise, silicone tape , etc etc. The post op instructions were 13 pages long, and this was a one -hour long out patient procedure (that fixed my c section shelf, btw). If anyone gave my guidance after my c section, I missed it.

C sections are a rational choice for some people. But post partum care in this country is horrible.

That's not the worst of it. There is an ultrasound that would risk stratify rupture risk in labor for VBAC that obstetrics studiously ignores the existence of, probably because it would out obstetricians who are crappy surgeons

I think there are literally 10,000s if not 100,000s of women who have symptomatic C section isthmoceles or uterine infertility who's symptoms are being ignored (mine were) or who are spending $10,000s on fertility treatments futilely

Can you provide more info on this because I'm actually waffling between a vbac and an elective C-section. Essentially I have my c-section scheduled but the agreement right now is that if I go into labor prior to that then I'm going to TOLAC.
If there's another test I should be looking into to help make that decision I would love to know about it.

Can’t speak to the uterine rupture screening, but you should look at this study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33724564/#:~:text=VBAC%20is%20associated%20with%20a%20significantly%20higher,Society%20of%20Ultrasound%20in%20Obstetrics%20and%20Gynecology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe anyone would opt for a c-section if it wasn't necessary. Cutting through several layers, including muscle, to deliver the baby. The recovery is difficult and painful.

My mom had to have major reconstructive surgery as a result of her vaginal births so she ended up getting cut open anyway. My c sections were all easy and uncomplicated and I don't have prolapse and pelvic floor issues and won't need to have my bladder reconstructed.

Pelvic floor and bladder issues are related to pregnancy. Not simply birth method. I’d advise you to keep this in mind closer to menopause as your family may be predisposed to them. I’m sorry your mother suffered and hope you do not. 💗

Sharing more for others, in case they are struggling and had c section.

But some pelvic floor disorders and conditions are strongly correlated to delivery mode.

“Although spontaneous vaginal delivery was significantly associated with stress incontinence and prolapse, the most dramatic risk was associated with operative vaginal birth.”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21897313/

Hands at JHU has researched this extensively.

And yet, how much is being done to decrease operative vaginal delivery. Most OBs are still requiring women to push on their back and wont accept any other position and will only coach closed glottis pushing/purple pushing.
PFPT is not covered by most insurance, there arent a whole lot of providers, and there is no counseling done prior to delivery and very few women see a PFPT post-delivery unless they have extreme issues because loss of bladder control, leaking, and prolapse have been normalized by the OB community even though there are things that can help. 5-10 years down the road is not too late but I would put money on the hypothesis that 6mo-2 year PP intervention is best.

Is this really true in the DC area?! I’ve had 4 kids and given birth in 2 states and never encountered this. All 4 times were at big hospitals and each time they were encouraging of me getting up, moving around, etc. I’ve given birth in some weird positions.

Fortunately I had uncomplicated births and no lasting health issues. I’m glad to be reading this thread now that I am done having kids as these stories are pretty scary!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe anyone would opt for a c-section if it wasn't necessary. Cutting through several layers, including muscle, to deliver the baby. The recovery is difficult and painful.

Please educate yourself. A c-section does not cut through muscle! Have you ever had a c-section? The recovery from a planned c-section is less difficult and painful than recovery from a vaginal birth with any amount of tearing or complications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just for interest's sake I'd like to share how my sister gave birth in Japan. Husbands do not stay for more than short visits. They understand that most husbands are not able to be helpful with newborns! You stay for a week and all the women on the floor meet several times a day for classes taught by the nurses on baby care and breastfeeding. She said it was wonderful for her mental health to be around all these women in the same boat and get reassurance about how to care for her new baby. And of course they take the baby while you sleep but everyone still manages to breastfeed! Obviously this is more useful for a first time mom and she didn't do it all the second time.

Umm what? Maybe most Japanese husbands are not helpful with newborns because it is not cultural to play that role. I would have been 100% pissed if my husband left me alone with a newborn in a hospital for a week. Sure, he can’t breastfeed, but he did a lot with both of our newborns each time I gave birth (including cuddling them at night while I slept, diaper changing, etc) and was a huge support to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe anyone would opt for a c-section if it wasn't necessary. Cutting through several layers, including muscle, to deliver the baby. The recovery is difficult and painful.

+1

I have no strong opinion on women being able to elect a C section without any medical indication, but I find it an odd choice. I had 3 babies vaginally and even with needing some pelvic floor therapy at one point, my recovery was remarkably easier than my friends who had C sections (esp multiple times). I’m a bit softer in the middle, but mostly things are back to normal (I also lucked out with no stretch marks or anything). No c section shelf or scar. I was able to get up and shower/walk around within a few hours of giving birth each time.

I think women are strong an amazing for literally having their bodies cut open to bring their children into this world, but let’s not downplay that it is major surgery.

Someone who had an easy vaginal birth would have this opinion. Speak to women who had horrific vaginal births that damaged them permanently and you will hear a different perspective. A good friend of mine who had a C section for breech for her first went on to try for a VBAC. She pushed for hours, they used forceps and gave her an episiotomy, and she ended up with anal incontinence. She was enraged how much more difficult her vaginal was and how she felt lied to that a VBAC was pushed so hard on her and that she was told her recovery would be easier than her c section. After her C section she was running an hour a day. She’s now years after her other birth and is planning a corrective surgery and deals daily with incontinence and pain, and says she and her husband barely can have sex because it’s too painful. YMMV.

A VBAC is way different than a regular vaginal delivery. Basically every story I’ve heard from anyone attempting a VBAC has been horrific and many doctors are reluctant to take on VBAC patients (midwives almost never). It sounds horrible what your friend went through, but I completely agree that a scheduled C section is a less risky option when you already have a track record of not delivering vaginally. In my mind that is not “elective” because you have a higher medical risk than someone who has never had a C section.

But for someone who has never had a C section, I don’t understand why you’d pick surgery without even seeing how labor goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe anyone would opt for a c-section if it wasn't necessary. Cutting through several layers, including muscle, to deliver the baby. The recovery is difficult and painful.

+1

I have no strong opinion on women being able to elect a C section without any medical indication, but I find it an odd choice. I had 3 babies vaginally and even with needing some pelvic floor therapy at one point, my recovery was remarkably easier than my friends who had C sections (esp multiple times). I’m a bit softer in the middle, but mostly things are back to normal (I also lucked out with no stretch marks or anything). No c section shelf or scar. I was able to get up and shower/walk around within a few hours of giving birth each time.

I think women are strong an amazing for literally having their bodies cut open to bring their children into this world, but let’s not downplay that it is major surgery.

Someone who had an easy vaginal birth would have this opinion. Speak to women who had horrific vaginal births that damaged them permanently and you will hear a different perspective. A good friend of mine who had a C section for breech for her first went on to try for a VBAC. She pushed for hours, they used forceps and gave her an episiotomy, and she ended up with anal incontinence. She was enraged how much more difficult her vaginal was and how she felt lied to that a VBAC was pushed so hard on her and that she was told her recovery would be easier than her c section. After her C section she was running an hour a day. She’s now years after her other birth and is planning a corrective surgery and deals daily with incontinence and pain, and says she and her husband barely can have sex because it’s too painful. YMMV.

A VBAC is way different than a regular vaginal delivery. Basically every story I’ve heard from anyone attempting a VBAC has been horrific and many doctors are reluctant to take on VBAC patients (midwives almost never). It sounds horrible what your friend went through, but I completely agree that a scheduled C section is a less risky option when you already have a track record of not delivering vaginally. In my mind that is not “elective” because you have a higher medical risk than someone who has never had a C section.

But for someone who has never had a C section, I don’t understand why you’d pick surgery without even seeing how labor goes.

Because you want to minimize PF damage and because elective c sections have been shown in studies to be as safe or safer than vaginal deliveries.

[Anonymous]

Ok for you something different for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

This.

I avoided C-Section because it’s contraindicated for my medical history other than a life or death emergency. But if I knew how absolutely appalling postpartum care is, I would have been even more adamant. In what other possible universe is a patient responsible for the feeding and toileting of another patient hours or minutes after surgery/birth???

I will never ever forget being in tears waiting for the nurses to come to bring me to the bathroom after I fainted the first time unaccompanied and they put me on a fall warning (had they read the chart I would have been on the fall warning to begin with…). The idea that I’d have been waiting that long pushing a button for a post-surgical complication gives me chills.

Thank you for saying this. I thought I was taking crazy pills being the only person to notice. My DH was excluded from the post-partum floor because he wouldn't take a certain safe and effective intervention. I had 2 babies via C section and no help, other than the nurses. I left AMA after 24 hours both times. Literally nobody cared in the hospital. Really disturbing experience how little nurses and doctors care. You're just one less person buzzing the call button, buh bye, don't let the door hit you on the @$$.

I figured out how to raise the bed all the way, which made it much easier for me to retrieve the baby from the bassinet. The nurse b-----d me out for doing that. I was literally paralyzed from the waste down and expected to feed and diaper an hour's old infant. Don't even get me started on the sleep deprivation torture.

I had the exact same experience. It was a complete nightmare. The nurses seemed sadistic and wouldn't lift a finger to help me. I didn't have any milk for the first few days and they wouldn't give him a bottle even though his blood sugar was critically low. Something to do with being "baby-friendly" ---they gave him a glucose IV instead. You read that right. I think I was hallucinating I was so exhausted and I was hooked up to a catheter so I couldn't even walk around.

Was this at GW? I also found my experience to be hell. I came out of major surgery and was not helped one bit. Immediately expected to care for the baby on my own. I didn’t even know why I was at the hospital since I was just in a room by myself with the baby. Occasionally someone checked my vitals. I went home early.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:C sections are for the convenience of the doctor who doesn't want to deliver baby at 2:00am or on a weekend or holiday. Optional c-section turns a natural process into elective surgery

That’s funny, my OB did my planned C-section on a Sunday…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You can choose to spend an extra night in the hospital but most women don't.

Is it really only one extra night? It’s been a while but I recall it was two days for vaginal and 5 days for a c-section.

Legally insurance companies cant restrict payment/coverage for less than 48 hours for vaginal or 96 for csection.

Regardless womens healthcare is always underwhelming. You can stay for 4 days but theres no one to help you get out of bed or bring the baby to you etc unless you have family or friends staying with you. From my understanding only the women are considered the patient of the nurse not women plus baby and the ratios for post-op for any other surgery are way less than with postpartum moms. Nurses can correct me if I am wrong.

My DH was at Hopkins at had nurses constantly at his bedside, checking in, helping him, etc with no surgery. Post op csection after 2 days labor....it was deserted and wild wild west. You get poked and stabbed and massaged but thats about it.

This.

I avoided C-Section because it’s contraindicated for my medical history other than a life or death emergency. But if I knew how absolutely appalling postpartum care is, I would have been even more adamant. In what other possible universe is a patient responsible for the feeding and toileting of another patient hours or minutes after surgery/birth???

I will never ever forget being in tears waiting for the nurses to come to bring me to the bathroom after I fainted the first time unaccompanied and they put me on a fall warning (had they read the chart I would have been on the fall warning to begin with…). The idea that I’d have been waiting that long pushing a button for a post-surgical complication gives me chills.

Thank you for saying this. I thought I was taking crazy pills being the only person to notice. My DH was excluded from the post-partum floor because he wouldn't take a certain safe and effective intervention. I had 2 babies via C section and no help, other than the nurses. I left AMA after 24 hours both times. Literally nobody cared in the hospital. Really disturbing experience how little nurses and doctors care. You're just one less person buzzing the call button, buh bye, don't let the door hit you on the @$$.

I figured out how to raise the bed all the way, which made it much easier for me to retrieve the baby from the bassinet. The nurse b-----d me out for doing that. I was literally paralyzed from the waste down and expected to feed and diaper an hour's old infant. Don't even get me started on the sleep deprivation torture.

Oh yeah, I was marked as a "fall risk", which I guess everyone who's had a spinal is, yet Im holding an infant without supervision. Where is the sense in that?

I just think of someone as influential as Serena Williams being ignored when she complained of shortness of breath (a life threatening post surgical complication…) and our post-partum standard of care includes ignoring frantic pressing of the call button from a patient you insisted wasn’t allowed out os bed…