BROWN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid applied a couple of years ago. It was the first year they shifted from interviews to videos and the explanation was Covid restrictions. (It was very early in Covid and I'm guessing their alumni interviewers weren't excited about zoom interviews.)

I have a kid applying this year, and they seemed to have refined (improved, in my opinion) the description of what they were looking for in the video.

My first kid made a simple (frankly, unimpressive) video looking at the camera and merging in photos. Then she showed me the ones other kids made-- many posted them online. And wow. It seemed clear they either hired a videographer or had a very talented family member. For instance, giving a tour of their 'hometown' (NY City) by traveling to all kinds of locations. Very high quality visuals, edits, etc. Some with kind of special effects. Unclear if the 'script' was theirs or not.

FWIW, my kid got in with her iphone propped on textbooks and filming in my dining room. And now the instructions seem to asking for something more clearly along the lines of what she did.

Another parent here. I looked at a bunch online, and the ones that looked more "professional " tended to be from kids who were into filmmaking. (My favorites are the guy with the animated character and the Wes Anderson send up). I think those are great for those kids and don't extend the bar for others. Some videos (my kids' included) had more editing work in them for sure -- cuts, slides with VO, music. My kids used software that came free on my computer, and it allowed them to add extra tracks of photos and sound as well as titles. They figured it out by trial and error, and theirs had a lot of content while conveying a theme. But, kids also got in with videos that are just 1 shot of them talking. There's no "right" way. I think it's nice to show creativity.

Wow. My kid is at Chicago and also had to make an intro video for them. From what I recall he just videoed himself in his room talking about his favorite books. Might have showed the books but I don’t think he used music, pics or any video tools. Had no idea bar was much higher!

It’s not. A small number of kids do crazy videos and post them online. Most who are accepted do not.

I think both of you are missing my point. There's not a "bar," and there's no wrong way. It's about how kids want to express themselves. Lots of kids are video savvy. Layering and editing content is quite common and easy to do in free software, so a lot of kids do that. It's not "crazy," but it's also ok not to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid applied a couple of years ago. It was the first year they shifted from interviews to videos and the explanation was Covid restrictions. (It was very early in Covid and I'm guessing their alumni interviewers weren't excited about zoom interviews.)

I have a kid applying this year, and they seemed to have refined (improved, in my opinion) the description of what they were looking for in the video.

My first kid made a simple (frankly, unimpressive) video looking at the camera and merging in photos. Then she showed me the ones other kids made-- many posted them online. And wow. It seemed clear they either hired a videographer or had a very talented family member. For instance, giving a tour of their 'hometown' (NY City) by traveling to all kinds of locations. Very high quality visuals, edits, etc. Some with kind of special effects. Unclear if the 'script' was theirs or not.

FWIW, my kid got in with her iphone propped on textbooks and filming in my dining room. And now the instructions seem to asking for something more clearly along the lines of what she did.

Another parent here. I looked at a bunch online, and the ones that looked more "professional " tended to be from kids who were into filmmaking. (My favorites are the guy with the animated character and the Wes Anderson send up). I think those are great for those kids and don't extend the bar for others. Some videos (my kids' included) had more editing work in them for sure -- cuts, slides with VO, music. My kids used software that came free on my computer, and it allowed them to add extra tracks of photos and sound as well as titles. They figured it out by trial and error, and theirs had a lot of content while conveying a theme. But, kids also got in with videos that are just 1 shot of them talking. There's no "right" way. I think it's nice to show creativity.

Wow. My kid is at Chicago and also had to make an intro video for them. From what I recall he just videoed himself in his room talking about his favorite books. Might have showed the books but I don’t think he used music, pics or any video tools. Had no idea bar was much higher!

It’s not. A small number of kids do crazy videos and post them online. Most who are accepted do not.

I think both of you are missing my point. There's not a "bar," and there's no wrong way. It's about how kids want to express themselves. Lots of kids are video savvy. Layering and editing content is quite common and easy to do in free software, so a lot of kids do that. It's not "crazy," but it's also ok not to do that.

No, I got your point. And I agreed with it. You just fixated on the word “crazy,” which I used as shorthand to mean “unusually high production value that most kids don’t do,” which is true. Most kids don’t do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid applied a couple of years ago. It was the first year they shifted from interviews to videos and the explanation was Covid restrictions. (It was very early in Covid and I'm guessing their alumni interviewers weren't excited about zoom interviews.)

I have a kid applying this year, and they seemed to have refined (improved, in my opinion) the description of what they were looking for in the video.

My first kid made a simple (frankly, unimpressive) video looking at the camera and merging in photos. Then she showed me the ones other kids made-- many posted them online. And wow. It seemed clear they either hired a videographer or had a very talented family member. For instance, giving a tour of their 'hometown' (NY City) by traveling to all kinds of locations. Very high quality visuals, edits, etc. Some with kind of special effects. Unclear if the 'script' was theirs or not.

FWIW, my kid got in with her iphone propped on textbooks and filming in my dining room. And now the instructions seem to asking for something more clearly along the lines of what she did.

Another parent here. I looked at a bunch online, and the ones that looked more "professional " tended to be from kids who were into filmmaking. (My favorites are the guy with the animated character and the Wes Anderson send up). I think those are great for those kids and don't extend the bar for others. Some videos (my kids' included) had more editing work in them for sure -- cuts, slides with VO, music. My kids used software that came free on my computer, and it allowed them to add extra tracks of photos and sound as well as titles. They figured it out by trial and error, and theirs had a lot of content while conveying a theme. But, kids also got in with videos that are just 1 shot of them talking. There's no "right" way. I think it's nice to show creativity.

Wow. My kid is at Chicago and also had to make an intro video for them. From what I recall he just videoed himself in his room talking about his favorite books. Might have showed the books but I don’t think he used music, pics or any video tools. Had no idea bar was much higher!

It’s not. A small number of kids do crazy videos and post them online. Most who are accepted do not.

I think both of you are missing my point. There's not a "bar," and there's no wrong way. It's about how kids want to express themselves. Lots of kids are video savvy. Layering and editing content is quite common and easy to do in free software, so a lot of kids do that. It's not "crazy," but it's also ok not to do that.

No, I got your point. And I agreed with it. You just fixated on the word “crazy,” which I used as shorthand to mean “unusually high production value that most kids don’t do,” which is true. Most kids don’t do it.

"Crazy" and now "fixated?" Really? For a 2 minute student video? You are really trying to craft a narrative here. So, no, we don't agree. And, you actually didn't quite get what I said. Free software and a little editing work is not "production value."

[Anonymous]

My DS did not submit video but got in RD last year. My DS loves Brown. He is very self-motivated. Due to open curriculum, he can take courses which he is more interested. He says his professors are terrific. He says it’s and healthy atmosphere, students are incredibly smart, intrinsically motivated, intellectually curious, and authentically supportive of one another. Lots of research opportunities. He likes the small-town experience, sometimes complains of cafeteria food but he enjoys restaurants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid applied a couple of years ago. It was the first year they shifted from interviews to videos and the explanation was Covid restrictions. (It was very early in Covid and I'm guessing their alumni interviewers weren't excited about zoom interviews.)

I have a kid applying this year, and they seemed to have refined (improved, in my opinion) the description of what they were looking for in the video.

My first kid made a simple (frankly, unimpressive) video looking at the camera and merging in photos. Then she showed me the ones other kids made-- many posted them online. And wow. It seemed clear they either hired a videographer or had a very talented family member. For instance, giving a tour of their 'hometown' (NY City) by traveling to all kinds of locations. Very high quality visuals, edits, etc. Some with kind of special effects. Unclear if the 'script' was theirs or not.

FWIW, my kid got in with her iphone propped on textbooks and filming in my dining room. And now the instructions seem to asking for something more clearly along the lines of what she did.

Another parent here. I looked at a bunch online, and the ones that looked more "professional " tended to be from kids who were into filmmaking. (My favorites are the guy with the animated character and the Wes Anderson send up). I think those are great for those kids and don't extend the bar for others. Some videos (my kids' included) had more editing work in them for sure -- cuts, slides with VO, music. My kids used software that came free on my computer, and it allowed them to add extra tracks of photos and sound as well as titles. They figured it out by trial and error, and theirs had a lot of content while conveying a theme. But, kids also got in with videos that are just 1 shot of them talking. There's no "right" way. I think it's nice to show creativity.

Wow. My kid is at Chicago and also had to make an intro video for them. From what I recall he just videoed himself in his room talking about his favorite books. Might have showed the books but I don’t think he used music, pics or any video tools. Had no idea bar was much higher!

It’s not. A small number of kids do crazy videos and post them online. Most who are accepted do not.

I think both of you are missing my point. There's not a "bar," and there's no wrong way. It's about how kids want to express themselves. Lots of kids are video savvy. Layering and editing content is quite common and easy to do in free software, so a lot of kids do that. It's not "crazy," but it's also ok not to do that.

No, I got your point. And I agreed with it. You just fixated on the word “crazy,” which I used as shorthand to mean “unusually high production value that most kids don’t do,” which is true. Most kids don’t do it.

"Crazy" and now "fixated?" Really? For a 2 minute student video? You are really trying to craft a narrative here. So, no, we don't agree. And, you actually didn't quite get what I said. Free software and a little editing work is not "production value."

You are really overreacting. - DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the video essay was tough

My 2024 worked on the application for RD. Did the essays but completely rebelled against the video essay. He got in ED at another school so it became a non issue. But it made me think he was not the right fit for Brown. Kids who would be a good fit at Brown would love to do the video essay. The scenario is a bit similar to U Chicago prompts. In a way, the school apps filter out for fit.

I am not sure how many kids actually love the video essay. My DC did it and was accepted. But he regarded it more as a necessary evil and means to an end.

Well, will he then see his English classes or his math classes as a necessary evil? Maybe Brown wants kids who are naturally enthusiastic about learning and trying new things.

The joy of the open curriculum is that you don’t have to take those classes if you don't want to.

But the burden of Open Curriculum is that you never learn The Greats, The pillars of civilization, the books that every other person you will meet in life (ok maybe not on DCUM) have read. I went to a SLAC that did this. I received a cafeteria-style education. Which means crummy. My kids at least had survey courses in college. I didn't. I now wish I had gone to Columbia or U of Chicago (today St. John's) and received a classical education. I did not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the video essay was tough

My 2024 worked on the application for RD. Did the essays but completely rebelled against the video essay. He got in ED at another school so it became a non issue. But it made me think he was not the right fit for Brown. Kids who would be a good fit at Brown would love to do the video essay. The scenario is a bit similar to U Chicago prompts. In a way, the school apps filter out for fit.

I am not sure how many kids actually love the video essay. My DC did it and was accepted. But he regarded it more as a necessary evil and means to an end.

Well, will he then see his English classes or his math classes as a necessary evil? Maybe Brown wants kids who are naturally enthusiastic about learning and trying new things.

The joy of the open curriculum is that you don’t have to take those classes if you don't want to.

But the burden of Open Curriculum is that you never learn The Greats, The pillars of civilization, the books that every other person you will meet in life (ok maybe not on DCUM) have read. I went to a SLAC that did this. I received a cafeteria-style education. Which means crummy. My kids at least had survey courses in college. I didn't. I now wish I had gone to Columbia or U of Chicago (today St. John's) and received a classical education. I did not.

I suspect "every other person you will meet" has not had deep encounters with "The Greats." And also, when you dine at a cafeteria, if you skip the vegetables, that's your fault, not the fault of the restaurant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the video essay was tough

My 2024 worked on the application for RD. Did the essays but completely rebelled against the video essay. He got in ED at another school so it became a non issue. But it made me think he was not the right fit for Brown. Kids who would be a good fit at Brown would love to do the video essay. The scenario is a bit similar to U Chicago prompts. In a way, the school apps filter out for fit.

I am not sure how many kids actually love the video essay. My DC did it and was accepted. But he regarded it more as a necessary evil and means to an end.

Well, will he then see his English classes or his math classes as a necessary evil? Maybe Brown wants kids who are naturally enthusiastic about learning and trying new things.

The joy of the open curriculum is that you don’t have to take those classes if you don't want to.

But the burden of Open Curriculum is that you never learn The Greats, The pillars of civilization, the books that every other person you will meet in life (ok maybe not on DCUM) have read. I went to a SLAC that did this. I received a cafeteria-style education. Which means crummy. My kids at least had survey courses in college. I didn't. I now wish I had gone to Columbia or U of Chicago (today St. John's) and received a classical education. I did not.

That was your choice, and a misuse of the open curriculum. The trick to getting admitted to Brown is showing in your app you are the kind of student that would use the open curriculum to do the opposite - to explore your curiosities and other subjects, and not to avoid things.

Brown professors will tell you (famous biologist and Brown professor Kenneth Miller gives a TED talk on this you can watch) that it means that every student in the class wants to be there, and that makes the experience better for all students.

You know, you can also just read those other books. Many of them can be gotten free on your tablet. This isn't really a problem in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid applied a couple of years ago. It was the first year they shifted from interviews to videos and the explanation was Covid restrictions. (It was very early in Covid and I'm guessing their alumni interviewers weren't excited about zoom interviews.)

I have a kid applying this year, and they seemed to have refined (improved, in my opinion) the description of what they were looking for in the video.

My first kid made a simple (frankly, unimpressive) video looking at the camera and merging in photos. Then she showed me the ones other kids made-- many posted them online. And wow. It seemed clear they either hired a videographer or had a very talented family member. For instance, giving a tour of their 'hometown' (NY City) by traveling to all kinds of locations. Very high quality visuals, edits, etc. Some with kind of special effects. Unclear if the 'script' was theirs or not.

FWIW, my kid got in with her iphone propped on textbooks and filming in my dining room. And now the instructions seem to asking for something more clearly along the lines of what she did.

Another parent here. I looked at a bunch online, and the ones that looked more "professional " tended to be from kids who were into filmmaking. (My favorites are the guy with the animated character and the Wes Anderson send up). I think those are great for those kids and don't extend the bar for others. Some videos (my kids' included) had more editing work in them for sure -- cuts, slides with VO, music. My kids used software that came free on my computer, and it allowed them to add extra tracks of photos and sound as well as titles. They figured it out by trial and error, and theirs had a lot of content while conveying a theme. But, kids also got in with videos that are just 1 shot of them talking. There's no "right" way. I think it's nice to show creativity.

Wow. My kid is at Chicago and also had to make an intro video for them. From what I recall he just videoed himself in his room talking about his favorite books. Might have showed the books but I don’t think he used music, pics or any video tools. Had no idea bar was much higher!

It’s not. A small number of kids do crazy videos and post them online. Most who are accepted do not.

I think both of you are missing my point. There's not a "bar," and there's no wrong way. It's about how kids want to express themselves. Lots of kids are video savvy. Layering and editing content is quite common and easy to do in free software, so a lot of kids do that. It's not "crazy," but it's also ok not to do that.

No, I got your point. And I agreed with it. You just fixated on the word “crazy,” which I used as shorthand to mean “unusually high production value that most kids don’t do,” which is true. Most kids don’t do it.

"Crazy" and now "fixated?" Really? For a 2 minute student video? You are really trying to craft a narrative here. So, no, we don't agree. And, you actually didn't quite get what I said. Free software and a little editing work is not "production value."

You are really overreacting. - DP

Sure, you are a DP. You didn't get what the other PP was saying. She corrected you. Just move on, dude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the video essay was tough

My 2024 worked on the application for RD. Did the essays but completely rebelled against the video essay. He got in ED at another school so it became a non issue. But it made me think he was not the right fit for Brown. Kids who would be a good fit at Brown would love to do the video essay. The scenario is a bit similar to U Chicago prompts. In a way, the school apps filter out for fit.

I am not sure how many kids actually love the video essay. My DC did it and was accepted. But he regarded it more as a necessary evil and means to an end.

Well, will he then see his English classes or his math classes as a necessary evil? Maybe Brown wants kids who are naturally enthusiastic about learning and trying new things.

The joy of the open curriculum is that you don’t have to take those classes if you don't want to.

But the burden of Open Curriculum is that you never learn The Greats, The pillars of civilization, the books that every other person you will meet in life (ok maybe not on DCUM) have read. I went to a SLAC that did this. I received a cafeteria-style education. Which means crummy. My kids at least had survey courses in college. I didn't. I now wish I had gone to Columbia or U of Chicago (today St. John's) and received a classical education. I did not.

That was your choice, and a misuse of the open curriculum. The trick to getting admitted to Brown is showing in your app you are the kind of student that would use the open curriculum to do the opposite - to explore your curiosities and other subjects, and not to avoid things.

Brown professors will tell you (famous biologist and Brown professor Kenneth Miller gives a TED talk on this you can watch) that it means that every student in the class wants to be there, and that makes the experience better for all students.

You know, you can also just read those other books. Many of them can be gotten free on your tablet. This isn't really a problem in any way.

I was going to say similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If they can get in to any other Ivy, seriously go there instead. It's a super woke rich kid mecca who never get defined careers after graduation. Not a lot of pride or school spirit, it's pretty sleepy. You are paying for the name and in certain circles, it's kind of a joke.

Pretty spot on. We all know why grubby dcum social climbing strivers obsess over Brown: They think their kid will meet & marry some blue blood rich peer. They won't, of course. Those kids might sometimes do drugs and booze with your kids in college, but they don't marry random DMV proles. Your kid won't truly fit in, nobody in your social circle will care they go to Brown, and odds are they will return home weird and unmotivated. And your family lacks the money to support a layabout creative. Or they'll get the same boring 9-5 job they could have had if they went to UMD like half of their high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If they can get in to any other Ivy, seriously go there instead. It's a super woke rich kid mecca who never get defined careers after graduation. Not a lot of pride or school spirit, it's pretty sleepy. You are paying for the name and in certain circles, it's kind of a joke.

Pretty spot on. We all know why grubby dcum social climbing strivers obsess over Brown: They think their kid will meet & marry some blue blood rich peer. They won't, of course. Those kids might sometimes do drugs and booze with your kids in college, but they don't marry random DMV proles. Your kid won't truly fit in, nobody in your social circle will care they go to Brown, and odds are they will return home weird and unmotivated. And your family lacks the money to support a layabout creative. Or they'll get the same boring 9-5 job they could have had if they went to UMD like half of their high school.

A Fox one day spied a beautiful bunch of ripe grapes hanging from a vine trained along the branches of a tree. The grapes seemed ready to burst with juice, and the Fox's mouth watered as he gazed longingly at them.

The bunch hung from a high branch, and the Fox had to jump for it. The first time he jumped he missed it by a long way. So he walked off a short distance and took a running leap at it, only to fall short once more. Again and again he tried, but in vain.

Now he sat down and looked at the grapes in disgust.

"What a fool I am," he said. "Here I am wearing myself out to get a bunch of sour grapes that are not worth gaping for."

And off he walked very, very scornfully.

-Aesop

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the video essay was tough

My 2024 worked on the application for RD. Did the essays but completely rebelled against the video essay. He got in ED at another school so it became a non issue. But it made me think he was not the right fit for Brown. Kids who would be a good fit at Brown would love to do the video essay. The scenario is a bit similar to U Chicago prompts. In a way, the school apps filter out for fit.

I am not sure how many kids actually love the video essay. My DC did it and was accepted. But he regarded it more as a necessary evil and means to an end.

Well, will he then see his English classes or his math classes as a necessary evil? Maybe Brown wants kids who are naturally enthusiastic about learning and trying new things.

The joy of the open curriculum is that you don’t have to take those classes if you don't want to.

But the burden of Open Curriculum is that you never learn The Greats, The pillars of civilization, the books that every other person you will meet in life (ok maybe not on DCUM) have read. I went to a SLAC that did this. I received a cafeteria-style education. Which means crummy. My kids at least had survey courses in college. I didn't. I now wish I had gone to Columbia or U of Chicago (today St. John's) and received a classical education. I did not.

That was your choice, and a misuse of the open curriculum. The trick to getting admitted to Brown is showing in your app you are the kind of student that would use the open curriculum to do the opposite - to explore your curiosities and other subjects, and not to avoid things.

Brown professors will tell you (famous biologist and Brown professor Kenneth Miller gives a TED talk on this you can watch) that it means that every student in the class wants to be there, and that makes the experience better for all students.

You know, you can also just read those other books. Many of them can be gotten free on your tablet. This isn't really a problem in any way.

Citing a TED Talk about Brown course selection. Wow. Everyone quiet down, we have a truly serious person in our midst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If they can get in to any other Ivy, seriously go there instead. It's a super woke rich kid mecca who never get defined careers after graduation. Not a lot of pride or school spirit, it's pretty sleepy. You are paying for the name and in certain circles, it's kind of a joke.

Pretty spot on. We all know why grubby dcum social climbing strivers obsess over Brown: They think their kid will meet & marry some blue blood rich peer. They won't, of course. Those kids might sometimes do drugs and booze with your kids in college, but they don't marry random DMV proles. Your kid won't truly fit in, nobody in your social circle will care they go to Brown, and odds are they will return home weird and unmotivated. And your family lacks the money to support a layabout creative. Or they'll get the same boring 9-5 job they could have had if they went to UMD like half of their high school.

This is weird and says way more about its author than it does about Brown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the video essay was tough

My 2024 worked on the application for RD. Did the essays but completely rebelled against the video essay. He got in ED at another school so it became a non issue. But it made me think he was not the right fit for Brown. Kids who would be a good fit at Brown would love to do the video essay. The scenario is a bit similar to U Chicago prompts. In a way, the school apps filter out for fit.

I am not sure how many kids actually love the video essay. My DC did it and was accepted. But he regarded it more as a necessary evil and means to an end.

Well, will he then see his English classes or his math classes as a necessary evil? Maybe Brown wants kids who are naturally enthusiastic about learning and trying new things.

The joy of the open curriculum is that you don’t have to take those classes if you don't want to.

But the burden of Open Curriculum is that you never learn The Greats, The pillars of civilization, the books that every other person you will meet in life (ok maybe not on DCUM) have read. I went to a SLAC that did this. I received a cafeteria-style education. Which means crummy. My kids at least had survey courses in college. I didn't. I now wish I had gone to Columbia or U of Chicago (today St. John's) and received a classical education. I did not.

That was your choice, and a misuse of the open curriculum. The trick to getting admitted to Brown is showing in your app you are the kind of student that would use the open curriculum to do the opposite - to explore your curiosities and other subjects, and not to avoid things.

Brown professors will tell you (famous biologist and Brown professor Kenneth Miller gives a TED talk on this you can watch) that it means that every student in the class wants to be there, and that makes the experience better for all students.

You know, you can also just read those other books. Many of them can be gotten free on your tablet. This isn't really a problem in any way.

Citing a TED Talk about Brown course selection. Wow. Everyone quiet down, we have a truly serious person in our midst.

It's a talk by a famous, published (commercial books as well as textbooks and papers), tenured Professor Emeritus of Biology at Brown who has taught there since 1980 (before that he taught at some joint in Cambridge). But I am sure people will not trust his informed opinion and go with yours, Mr. Anonymous On The Internet!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_R._Miller

People around here are so effing funny. It's like they just type things that fall out of their butts. I don't even know what the point you were trying to make is!