No homework???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

I’m definitely not in favor of he being graded. The teacher doesn’t know who did the work or how much assistance was given vs how independent the student was in completing it.

I think turning it in should count as a grade but only a yes or no, not what they got right and wrong. Then review. If a kid cheats, they only cheat themselves. Then when an increasingly difficult problem that would have been in the homework comes up in a quiz or test, it may have helped to practice that.

This isnt difficult. Its accountability. ChatGPT wont be there to answer your test questions that you would have been prepared for if you did the homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

I’m definitely not in favor of he being graded. The teacher doesn’t know who did the work or how much assistance was given vs how independent the student was in completing it.

I think turning it in should count as a grade but only a yes or no, not what they got right and wrong. Then review. If a kid cheats, they only cheat themselves. Then when an increasingly difficult problem that would have been in the homework comes up in a quiz or test, it may have helped to practice that.

This isnt difficult. Its accountability. ChatGPT wont be there to answer your test questions that you would have been prepared for if you did the homework.

So it would count towards the effort grade in ES.

[Anonymous]

These arguments against homework are silly. Kids are cheaters? Parents have to help? Kids cant do it on their own?

So we have to rely even more on the overworked teacher of 30 kids. Is this equity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent I hate homework because my kids have poor executive function and always need help remembering what they need to do. DH probably spends an hour or more each night helping them with math. I don’t think the homework should be something that kids can’t accomplish on their own, although I know they need to figure out how to do this for college.

I’ve been thinking about this. I think a child should be able to work on hw independently, but what if they are practicing incorrectly? For math particularly, wouldn’t that be doing more harm than good? And if the hw is being done correctly, and the child understands it, is the hw really necessary?

That's why the research says kids don't learn from homework. Many will practice incorrectly and not learn.

The kids who do the homework correctly, whether it's by themselves or with the help of a parent, still need practice in order to master the skills. Reading comp and math skills need repetition in order to be fully internalized.

Homework is helpful to learning when it's done right--with monitoring and assistance. That's why parents go to enrichment centers and buy workbooks. The schools don't provide homework, and so families with means find their own ways to provide their children with extra practice.

That would be my concern. Well, they would learn, it would just be incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent I hate homework because my kids have poor executive function and always need help remembering what they need to do. DH probably spends an hour or more each night helping them with math. I don’t think the homework should be something that kids can’t accomplish on their own, although I know they need to figure out how to do this for college.

I’ve been thinking about this. I think a child should be able to work on hw independently, but what if they are practicing incorrectly? For math particularly, wouldn’t that be doing more harm than good? And if the hw is being done correctly, and the child understands it, is the hw really necessary?

That's why the research says kids don't learn from homework. Many will practice incorrectly and not learn.

The kids who do the homework correctly, whether it's by themselves or with the help of a parent, still need practice in order to master the skills. Reading comp and math skills need repetition in order to be fully internalized.

Homework is helpful to learning when it's done right--with monitoring and assistance. That's why parents go to enrichment centers and buy workbooks. The schools don't provide homework, and so families with means find their own ways to provide their children with extra practice.

That would be my concern. Well, they would learn, it would just be incorrect.

Do they learn from reading chapters on history or civics, or in a novel? Also why would be it stay incorrect? The teacher would review the next class. This seems to be a math specific argument. But thats what review is for and then in class instruction. If they cant get it right, after that, it’s good to understand that a student is having independent difficulty with the concept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a parent I hate homework because my kids have poor executive function and always need help remembering what they need to do. DH probably spends an hour or more each night helping them with math. I don’t think the homework should be something that kids can’t accomplish on their own, although I know they need to figure out how to do this for college.

I know it is a struggle, I am an adult with ADHD and learning issues. My Mom spent so much time working with me on executive functioning issues and homework, math was particularly hard for me. All that time paid off because the skills eventually took root and I didn't need her help as much in high school. I learned how to ask for help when I needed it, which helped me in college. I went on to earn a PhD.

That time at the dining room table, which was frustrating as a child, taught me persistence and developed the skills I needed as a teenager and as an adult.

There was no way I could have completed my math homework alone, I didn't learn the way they were teaching. My Mom could help me figure out the answer and then translate it to the way it was being taught in the classroom. I never took honors level math, but I ended up teaching statistics to undergrads. I had a better understanding of why my undergrads were worried about the class, most took it as Seniors and their last requirement for their major. I made mistakes solving things on the board, numbers flipped and moved around, columns got confused. They saw that, pointed out the mistakes, we re-worked the problems together. They learned.

I am sure my Mom would have preferred to be doing other things then solving word problems with me but her patience taught me to continue to work and that she had faith I could do the work. It was the most valuable gift she gave me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

Yes, teacher here, teaching English, and it's pointless. I'm not going to sit around and grade chatGPT all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just started teaching in FCPS. We give minimal homework and only because they said we have to this year. I have 90 minutes of planning time twice a week to get ready for 6 hours of teaching a day, plus all the ridiculous nonsense admin insists we do that does nothing but add work. We haven't even started the year and I've barely slept all week, hardly had time to eat, and am already feeling like I'm going to either cry or throw up at the amount of work I am expected to do before Monday. I haven't seen my children or husband all week, and the year hasn't even started. It's going to be a million times worse next week.

So no, I'm not sending a bunch of work home so you can feel good about it and it can add to my already enormous grading workload. I'm at my limit. Your kid doesn't need homework. Studies show it doesn't even make any difference.

What grade do you teach?

High school. And yes, I also taught back before it was like this. Before we had millions of meetings about nothing and when we actually had textbooks and were given a curriculum. I have been given nothing, absolute zilch. I have no textbook, no curriculum other than a vague list of SOL's in random order, no materials whatsoever, and classes with students that range from not speaking a word of English or having a severe disability to getting ready to go to college (all in the same class). I have four classes and three different subjects and two different grade levels and three co-teachers I am expected to plan with every day (but we have no common planning time, which means after school and weekends). Two of my co-teachers have never taught before in their lives and I am expected to teach them everything as well. I'm still grateful to have them, but this is the fastest I've ever felt this exhausted and burnt out in all my 20 years of teaching. I've been working twelve-hour days all week and then going home and working more, and now admin wants me to write every day's learning target on the board and they are going to come into my classroom and quiz random students to make sure they can tell them the learning target and also explain why they need to learn it. I hope they don't ask one of the kids who doesn't speak English yet.

A lot of teachers just don't really care, and this is why. Because it's nearly impossible to do a good job in these circumstances unless you work around the clock, and then it's still impossible, and it's probably just easier to spend days posting learning targets and making sure kids are ready for random admin quizzes than it is to actually teach something.

I genuinely do not understand this. Why do we do this to teachers? It seems so absurd. How are they supposed to teach without a foundation to teach from? Why do we force thousands of them to re-invent the wheel every year? It’s literally nonsensical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

Yes, teacher here, teaching English, and it's pointless. I'm not going to sit around and grade chatGPT all day.

Then hold them accountable for the information in class. If they know it, they know it. If they don’t, then it will reflect. Pretty wild that teachers don’t know how to hold kids accountable for information they’ve told a kid to learn?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

Yes, teacher here, teaching English, and it's pointless. I'm not going to sit around and grade chatGPT all day.

Then hold them accountable for the information in class. If they know it, they know it. If they don’t, then it will reflect. Pretty wild that teachers don’t know how to hold kids accountable for information they’ve told a kid to learn?

DP: we do know how! It’s by making all assignments and assessments *in class* so kids do it themselves vs sending home homework.

I haven’t stopped giving HW because I am tired, I’ve stopped giving hw because I literally see better results structuring my class so all practice is done in front of me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

Yes, teacher here, teaching English, and it's pointless. I'm not going to sit around and grade chatGPT all day.

Then hold them accountable for the information in class. If they know it, they know it. If they don’t, then it will reflect. Pretty wild that teachers don’t know how to hold kids accountable for information they’ve told a kid to learn?

DP: we do know how! It’s by making all assignments and assessments *in class* so kids do it themselves vs sending home homework.

I haven’t stopped giving HW because I am tired, I’ve stopped giving hw because I literally see better results structuring my class so all practice is done in front of me.

So less teaching than before or less work. Got it.

That’s called class work. And a lot of time they have to wait on others and just sit around.

I guess that’s where we are these days. No books and no homework. 30 kids of five different levels and languages all vying for one teachers attention who is burdened with admin busy work and, lol, zero days.

Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just started teaching in FCPS. We give minimal homework and only because they said we have to this year. I have 90 minutes of planning time twice a week to get ready for 6 hours of teaching a day, plus all the ridiculous nonsense admin insists we do that does nothing but add work. We haven't even started the year and I've barely slept all week, hardly had time to eat, and am already feeling like I'm going to either cry or throw up at the amount of work I am expected to do before Monday. I haven't seen my children or husband all week, and the year hasn't even started. It's going to be a million times worse next week.

So no, I'm not sending a bunch of work home so you can feel good about it and it can add to my already enormous grading workload. I'm at my limit. Your kid doesn't need homework. Studies show it doesn't even make any difference.

What grade do you teach?

High school. And yes, I also taught back before it was like this. Before we had millions of meetings about nothing and when we actually had textbooks and were given a curriculum. I have been given nothing, absolute zilch. I have no textbook, no curriculum other than a vague list of SOL's in random order, no materials whatsoever, and classes with students that range from not speaking a word of English or having a severe disability to getting ready to go to college (all in the same class). I have four classes and three different subjects and two different grade levels and three co-teachers I am expected to plan with every day (but we have no common planning time, which means after school and weekends). Two of my co-teachers have never taught before in their lives and I am expected to teach them everything as well. I'm still grateful to have them, but this is the fastest I've ever felt this exhausted and burnt out in all my 20 years of teaching. I've been working twelve-hour days all week and then going home and working more, and now admin wants me to write every day's learning target on the board and they are going to come into my classroom and quiz random students to make sure they can tell them the learning target and also explain why they need to learn it. I hope they don't ask one of the kids who doesn't speak English yet.

A lot of teachers just don't really care, and this is why. Because it's nearly impossible to do a good job in these circumstances unless you work around the clock, and then it's still impossible, and it's probably just easier to spend days posting learning targets and making sure kids are ready for random admin quizzes than it is to actually teach something.

I genuinely do not understand this. Why do we do this to teachers? It seems so absurd. How are they supposed to teach without a foundation to teach from? Why do we force thousands of them to re-invent the wheel every year? It’s literally nonsensical.

There is tons of material. Teachers dont want it. Don't ask me why. They also dont share materials. Its just a really weird profession that way. Must be over 300 Teachers per grade in the same subject per year just within FCPS. Boggles the mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

Yes, teacher here, teaching English, and it's pointless. I'm not going to sit around and grade chatGPT all day.

Then hold them accountable for the information in class. If they know it, they know it. If they don’t, then it will reflect. Pretty wild that teachers don’t know how to hold kids accountable for information they’ve told a kid to learn?

DP: we do know how! It’s by making all assignments and assessments *in class* so kids do it themselves vs sending home homework.

I haven’t stopped giving HW because I am tired, I’ve stopped giving hw because I literally see better results structuring my class so all practice is done in front of me.

So less teaching than before or less work. Got it.

That’s called class work. And a lot of time they have to wait on others and just sit around.

I guess that’s where we are these days. No books and no homework. 30 kids of five different levels and languages all vying for one teachers attention who is burdened with admin busy work and, lol, zero days.

Yikes.

I don’t know what kind of classroom you are sitting and observing, but I promise you there is no “waiting on others”. Why would there be? The only one they sometimes have to wait on is me if I’m engaged with another kid, but I’ve gotten really good over the years at spreading myself to get everyone and structuring seating to maximize needy kids in one zone so I can remediate them all at once.

Block schedule makes my math class run smoothly with plenty of in class practice. It’s not less work. My “homework” from 15+ years ago when we had 47 minute periods is just part of the “classwork” today in an 85 minute block. Same amount of work! Just finally done correctly and by the student.

But this year I’ll be making new homework in addition to it, apparently, because that’s the rule.

[Anonymous]

I see a lot of good coming out of homework. Many kids can’t concentrate in the noisy, commotion-filled classrooms. They can practice and generate creative ideas in quiet spaces at home with clear heads. The homework reinforces the lessons and allows kids to practice concepts away from the school environment. Even if my students work together or seek a tutor, they still learn from completing the assignments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I think it's about policing homework. With the proliferation of "problem solving" websites, there really is very little benefit of assigning homework. I'm not sure it's about having to grade the assignment (you can use a Google form and it's relatively very low burden to teachers). I think in general teachers don't find it useful anymore because there's no way to suss out whether the student is using a tool to do the homework. If they are, what is actually the point of going through that effort? I used to be heavily pro-homework and was appalled with the FCPS policy but as I've experienced with my own two kids, homework assignments are a very intangible measure.

Yes, teacher here, teaching English, and it's pointless. I'm not going to sit around and grade chatGPT all day.

Then hold them accountable for the information in class. If they know it, they know it. If they don’t, then it will reflect. Pretty wild that teachers don’t know how to hold kids accountable for information they’ve told a kid to learn?

DP: we do know how! It’s by making all assignments and assessments *in class* so kids do it themselves vs sending home homework.

I haven’t stopped giving HW because I am tired, I’ve stopped giving hw because I literally see better results structuring my class so all practice is done in front of me.

So less teaching than before or less work. Got it.

That’s called class work. And a lot of time they have to wait on others and just sit around.

I guess that’s where we are these days. No books and no homework. 30 kids of five different levels and languages all vying for one teachers attention who is burdened with admin busy work and, lol, zero days.

Yikes.

I don’t know what kind of classroom you are sitting and observing, but I promise you there is no “waiting on others”. Why would there be? The only one they sometimes have to wait on is me if I’m engaged with another kid, but I’ve gotten really good over the years at spreading myself to get everyone and structuring seating to maximize needy kids in one zone so I can remediate them all at once.

Block schedule makes my math class run smoothly with plenty of in class practice. It’s not less work. My “homework” from 15+ years ago when we had 47 minute periods is just part of the “classwork” today in an 85 minute block. Same amount of work! Just finally done correctly and by the student.

But this year I’ll be making new homework in addition to it, apparently, because that’s the rule.

Unfortunately, we are covering less material nowadays since we have to provide class work time. This workshop approach where kids work on problems in class cuts into the time that we could provide more lessons. The subjects are all shaved down.