When is a classroom unsafe? How would you handle? Kindergarten DD scratched in face and kicked in back at recess

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who told you that? That's absolutely not in IDEA. It sounds like your school district is illegally withholding evaluations.

NP, but that’s what the child study process looks like in every district I’ve worked in. They require teachers to br8ng data to the table of the interventions annd supports they have tried. Even if a child is fast tracked to an evaluation due to the kind of alarming situation described here, it takes about two months from the referral for the evaluation to complete all the testing and meet again to come to a decision.

I'm not surprised it happens, I'm just saying that's not in IDEA. Every parent of a child with special needs will tell you school districts regularly drag their feet.

I think when you are hit with a lawsuit, jail time or fines because you broke a law, you don’t really care if it was because you failed to follow federal law or state law. RTI is mandated in many states.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who told you that? That's absolutely not in IDEA. It sounds like your school district is illegally withholding evaluations.

NP, but that’s what the child study process looks like in every district I’ve worked in. They require teachers to br8ng data to the table of the interventions annd supports they have tried. Even if a child is fast tracked to an evaluation due to the kind of alarming situation described here, it takes about two months from the referral for the evaluation to complete all the testing and meet again to come to a decision.

I'm not surprised it happens, I'm just saying that's not in IDEA. Every parent of a child with special needs will tell you school districts regularly drag their feet.

I think when you are hit with a lawsuit, jail time or fines because you broke a law, you don’t really care if it was because you failed to follow federal law or state law. RTI is mandated in many states.

Well, not in Maryland. And I'm pretty sure not DC. I'm less sure about Virginia.

Where do you teach? Is it required there?

I think the claim the pp was making is that pre-referral interventions (which, again, are different than RTI) are common in school districts, not that they're legally required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who told you that? That's absolutely not in IDEA. It sounds like your school district is illegally withholding evaluations.

NP, but that’s what the child study process looks like in every district I’ve worked in. They require teachers to br8ng data to the table of the interventions annd supports they have tried. Even if a child is fast tracked to an evaluation due to the kind of alarming situation described here, it takes about two months from the referral for the evaluation to complete all the testing and meet again to come to a decision.

I'm not surprised it happens, I'm just saying that's not in IDEA. Every parent of a child with special needs will tell you school districts regularly drag their feet.

I think when you are hit with a lawsuit, jail time or fines because you broke a law, you don’t really care if it was because you failed to follow federal law or state law. RTI is mandated in many states.

Well, not in Maryland. And I'm pretty sure not DC. I'm less sure about Virginia.

Where do you teach? Is it required there?

I think the claim the pp was making is that pre-referral interventions (which, again, are different than RTI) are common in school districts, not that they're legally required.

http://www.rtinetwork.org/learn/ld/the-legal-dimension-of-rti-part-ii-state-laws-and-guidelines

As explained in more detail in Zirkel (2011), most state law provisions for RTI in both the mandatory and permissive categories are, per the foundational provisions in IDEA, exclusive to the determination of SLD. However, a handful of state laws extend RTI to other IDEA classifications.

“Second, a few states—Colorado, Connecticut, and Maryland in descending order of clarity—seem to suggest the use of RTI globally via their guidelines.”

The PP is interested in blaming school systems for SPED issues. They don’t want a legislative body or state department held accountable. I don’t know why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:100% have the school move your child to a different class. The kid who hurt her will disrupt the class, monopolize the teacher’s attention, and take away from everyone’s ability to feel safe and learn all year. The system protects the perpetrator not the victims.

This, and don’t wait. Do it now, before it gets any further into the school year. Ignore all the people (most of whom have ill-behaved and/or out of control kids of their own) who will be tripping over themselves to rush into this thread and demand that you keep your kid in the class and make them deal with it or “ignore” it. Nope. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the progressive mantra is that all people are entitled to a mainstream education so those at the bottom behaviorally or intellectually can have good examples and be pulled up. The losers, of course, are the stable and focused kids.

Yawwwwnnn. And the conservatives care SO VERY DEEPLY about public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:100% have the school move your child to a different class. The kid who hurt her will disrupt the class, monopolize the teacher’s attention, and take away from everyone’s ability to feel safe and learn all year. The system protects the perpetrator not the victims.

This is sadly true.
Signed a teachers

But they will not move OPs child because every parent wants their kid out of that class.

Yes, they will. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the progressive mantra is that all people are entitled to a mainstream education so those at the bottom behaviorally or intellectually can have good examples and be pulled up. The losers, of course, are the stable and focused kids.

My Republican friend, it is a law so progressive or not, you are supposed to follow it. I understand sometimes your party and its leaders choose not to follow laws, but most people don’t like jail.

I’m not a Republican. I’m also stating facts. Congratulations on the ad hominem attack. Did you have anything substantive to add? The fact this was codified into law was a result of the mantra. This does hurt certain populations, but because we feel they can suffer, we let it go.

No you are not. The FACT is more kids are born with autism than before. The FACT is the law was in place to help sped families of all varieties. The FACT is we have more violent kids who need a different kind of service and iDEA hasn’t kept up with the rising rates of emotional disorders or adhd or autism.
The FaCT is that the latest iteration of the law was revisited in 2004 as part of no child left behind- the one w started. It needs to be revised again, but claiming progressive thinking did it is NOT Factual.

There are no significant problems with the federal law, which simply says you have to provide an appropriate education to kids with disabilities, along with procedural safeguards so parents can protect the rights of their children.

The problem is that school districts aren't doing that.

You’re delusional. The “significant problem with the federal law” is that they made a law that is financially impossible for public schools to implement. The law needs to CHANGE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is wrong with schools?! Is there some reason we can't open more for disciplinary issues? There's a lot of focus on special needs and also gifted kids, but what about the ones who are violent?

What is wrong with the parents sending a kid not ready to be in a social environment without intensive supervision? Maybe schools establish a base-level set of requirements around behavior….. fully potty trained, not aggressive towards others? Until parents reach that a child is in home-school or a private setting?

It seems unreasonable to demand that schools address this kind of behavior. The demand upon schools to raise children is just too much.

Because as a society we've moved beyond warehousing people with disabilities.

Ill-behaved and out of control isn’t a disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The supports required are not funded. We have poorly funded legal requirements that do not serve most students and teachers well.

So go to the school board and your county/state reps and tell them to increase funding and/or reprioritize current educational spending. PTAs and teachers unions regularly lobby for spending, but they've been historically quiet on special education.

This is the way. PTAs and teachers unions have no power to change a federal law. The spending is one part of it. The other part is that parents should not be allowed to override placement decisions if a student has been violent or threatened violence-- and what reasonably constitutes "violence" should not be up to police or even school boards to decide. It should be decided by the people who spend 35 hours per week with the student and are actually subjected to the behaviors.

A law put into place without adequate funding is unlikely to have good outcomes. It sometimes feels like an underhanded effort by some politicians to demand more and more from public schools and then to underfund and overburden them to create unsustainable and untenable conditions. Thus creating demand for private institutions to step in when entities struggle.

Lots of examples with education, public transit, health care.
Get in early to buy stock in the private entities……

Schools were supposed to be educating students with special needs even before IDEA. Parents often just didn't have recourse when schools were failing their obligations.

Schools have no recourse with parents who aren't parenting and leaving it up to the school. "It's the school's problem" is the feeling of many. Parenting is a parent obligation. Schools can't do it all!

We're talking about school here, not parenting.

We’re talking about BOTH.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I strongly believe in LRE for students with disabilities. LRE sometimes means placement in a gen ed room, with support. That support is often not supplied, despite the law.

LRE sometimes means a self contained class, or partial inclusion in a gen ed room, or it can mean a therapeutic school. Students who are violent are entitled to FAPE and LRE, but that doesn't mean they are entitled to be in gen ed. This is the crux of the issue. No child or staff member should have to attend school where they are harmed. Students with behavioral and emotional issues are sometimes harming other students and staff. This is not okay. I don't care if a student is being violent because of their disability or not. If they are being violent because of their disability, then they should absolutely still have access to LRE...but LRE for them isn't gen ed.

*thunderous applause*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the progressive mantra is that all people are entitled to a mainstream education so those at the bottom behaviorally or intellectually can have good examples and be pulled up. The losers, of course, are the stable and focused kids.

My Republican friend, it is a law so progressive or not, you are supposed to follow it. I understand sometimes your party and its leaders choose not to follow laws, but most people don’t like jail.

I’m not a Republican. I’m also stating facts. Congratulations on the ad hominem attack. Did you have anything substantive to add? The fact this was codified into law was a result of the mantra. This does hurt certain populations, but because we feel they can suffer, we let it go.

No you are not. The FACT is more kids are born with autism than before. The FACT is the law was in place to help sped families of all varieties. The FACT is we have more violent kids who need a different kind of service and iDEA hasn’t kept up with the rising rates of emotional disorders or adhd or autism.
The FaCT is that the latest iteration of the law was revisited in 2004 as part of no child left behind- the one w started. It needs to be revised again, but claiming progressive thinking did it is NOT Factual.

There are no significant problems with the federal law, which simply says you have to provide an appropriate education to kids with disabilities, along with procedural safeguards so parents can protect the rights of their children.

The problem is that school districts aren't doing that.

You’re delusional. The “significant problem with the federal law” is that they made a law that is financially impossible for public schools to implement. The law needs to CHANGE.

Don't be ridiculous. It's not "fiscally impossible" for public schools to educate students with special needs. Is it expensive? Sure. And schools aren't budgeting appropriately.

Ironically, some people here want to push even more students into more restrictive, self-contained programs, which would be even more expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Repeated violence in school should be considered a mental disability. Those with disabilities should be taught in a different school. Yes, including those that require so much accommodation that you are literally giving them the answers because of their learning disability. Yes, including the kid that is in 5th grade but globally on a kindergarten level. Yes, including the kid that eats pencils in the back of the classroom because they have an oral fixation. Yes, including the kid with extreme autism that they can’t sit still or stop making random noises. It’s ridiculous. School is a zoo at this point. We need to go back to when we had a class for high students. A class for on grade level and a class for special needs. But no, we have inclusion. Students that do not belong with the other population.

And different schools for the darkies? But equal, of course...

No one is talking about race, so stop.

Got it. So are there other characteristics it's OK to discriminate kids based on, or is it just disabilities? And is it just developmental disabilities, or is OK to discriminate based on physical disabilities, too?

Are the “darkies” (you’re disgusting) violent and attacking other FIVE-YEAR-OLDS in school? No? Then your attempt at deflection and virtue signaling has failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is wrong with schools?! Is there some reason we can't open more for disciplinary issues? There's a lot of focus on special needs and also gifted kids, but what about the ones who are violent?

What is wrong with the parents sending a kid not ready to be in a social environment without intensive supervision? Maybe schools establish a base-level set of requirements around behavior….. fully potty trained, not aggressive towards others? Until parents reach that a child is in home-school or a private setting?

It seems unreasonable to demand that schools address this kind of behavior. The demand upon schools to raise children is just too much.

Because as a society we've moved beyond warehousing people with disabilities.

Ill-behaved and out of control isn’t a disability.

No, but ASD is a developmental disability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What the heck is wrong with schools?! Is there some reason we can't open more for disciplinary issues? There's a lot of focus on special needs and also gifted kids, but what about the ones who are violent?

What is wrong with the parents sending a kid not ready to be in a social environment without intensive supervision? Maybe schools establish a base-level set of requirements around behavior….. fully potty trained, not aggressive towards others? Until parents reach that a child is in home-school or a private setting?

It seems unreasonable to demand that schools address this kind of behavior. The demand upon schools to raise children is just too much.

Because as a society we've moved beyond warehousing people with disabilities.

Ill-behaved and out of control isn’t a disability.

No, but ASD is a developmental disability.

No ****, Sherlock. Except unfortunately for you and your paper thin argument, most violent kids in school DON’T HAVE ASD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Who told you that? That's absolutely not in IDEA. It sounds like your school district is illegally withholding evaluations.

NP, but that’s what the child study process looks like in every district I’ve worked in. They require teachers to br8ng data to the table of the interventions annd supports they have tried. Even if a child is fast tracked to an evaluation due to the kind of alarming situation described here, it takes about two months from the referral for the evaluation to complete all the testing and meet again to come to a decision.

I'm not surprised it happens, I'm just saying that's not in IDEA. Every parent of a child with special needs will tell you school districts regularly drag their feet.

I think when you are hit with a lawsuit, jail time or fines because you broke a law, you don’t really care if it was because you failed to follow federal law or state law. RTI is mandated in many states.

Well, not in Maryland. And I'm pretty sure not DC. I'm less sure about Virginia.

Where do you teach? Is it required there?

I think the claim the pp was making is that pre-referral interventions (which, again, are different than RTI) are common in school districts, not that they're legally required.

http://www.rtinetwork.org/learn/ld/the-legal-dimension-of-rti-part-ii-state-laws-and-guidelines

As explained in more detail in Zirkel (2011), most state law provisions for RTI in both the mandatory and permissive categories are, per the foundational provisions in IDEA, exclusive to the determination of SLD. However, a handful of state laws extend RTI to other IDEA classifications.

“Second, a few states—Colorado, Connecticut, and Maryland in descending order of clarity—seem to suggest the use of RTI globally via their guidelines.”

The PP is interested in blaming school systems for SPED issues. They don’t want a legislative body or state department held accountable. I don’t know why.

You're conflating RTI as a concept with pre-referral interventions. Maryland, in particular, encourages RTI as a concept for helping students, but not as a required pre-referral intervention before assessments for disabilities are done.

I would certainly support holding legislative or regulatory bodies accountable, but I don't know what you're trying to hold them accountable for, given they don't actually require what you've been suggesting.