Do You Really Need a "Hook" to Get Into a Top School Nowadays?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To answer the question:

It’s certainly *possible* to get into a T20 school without hooks, but totally out of your or your DC’s control and, increasingly each year, less and less likely due to more and more applicants.

Factors DC can influence: grades, test scores, extracurriculars, essay

Factors outside their control: how many other kids with similar profile apply, school’s priorities (including ability to pay full tuition, but also geographic and socioeconomic diversity, target profile, importance of yield protection and assessment of if your DC would accept if admitted, reaction to essay topic formed from a 3 min read,etc)

I advise my kids to study, make the effort to understand why they got something wrong on a test or a bad grade on a paper to improve for next time, and pursue interests through extracurricular choices. They will likely apply to 1-2 T20 schools (my oldest has the grades and test scores) but we in the process of identifying several schools he’d also be happy at that are not highly ranked.

It’s important to talk honestly about their chances of admittance and I think the best framing is highlighting what is in their control and what is not. A rejection from the tippy tippy schools should not be not a reflection of their self worth and they can be happy and successful at a range of schools.

+1000

If everyone did this, people would not be upset/unhappy. T20 schools are a reach for everyone (save being a Gates/Bezos/former president's kid, etc). Go into the process understanding that, find excellent target and safety schools your kid loves that are affordable to you and you will be very happy come April senior year. It's time parent's start doing their job----a rejection from all top 20 schools should not set your kid into a depression---it's your job to prepare them---if they are smart enough for a T20 school they are smart enough to understand that most get rejected and it is NOT a reflection on their self worth. They will be successful wherever they go. That is why you search for true targets and safeties your kid wants to attend.

[Anonymous]

No. Just know that the odds are not in anyone's favor (including those that have hooks), but there is a meaningful percentage of admits at all competitive schools who are unhooked.

[Anonymous]

Yes, start looking beyond T30

[Anonymous]

It is tough to realize that there are probably 10+ applicants to most elite schools very similar to your kid only with a score that is slightly different, an EC they led, or a non-profit that has a better history of impact.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

Yep, it’s for current students. Also Vagelos is a maximum of 1,000 dollars a year which is nothing

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

These are not true scholarships. They are small token awards for research funding, like Hahn only offers less than 5,000 to specifically fund one summer of research. They do not cover tuition or Housing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

These are not true scholarships. They are small token awards for research funding, like Hahn only offers less than 5,000 to specifically fund one summer of research. They do not cover tuition or Housing.

Same with egleston. You get up to 10k once in 4 years which can only be used for summer research funding, not tuition or fees. That’s not a true scholarship, it’s a research stipend