Do You Really Need a "Hook" to Get Into a Top School Nowadays?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately it seems difficult but worth taking the shot if you have good stats. I know someone's child who applied to Stanford, Duke, Princeton, and UPenn as the main reaches and got into UPenn and rejected from the other 3. The good news is one school could accept you while many others reject you and that's all a kid needs. There's no pattern that guarantees that just because one school accepts you others will, or that just because one school rejects you others will. There should be a general sense of the competitiveness of a kid if they have 1500+/34+, good grades, and trying to fill out the rest of a strong profile.

Probably 75 percent of applicants to top 10 schools will have these stats. My incoming freshmen did and she did not even apply to any T10 schools.

I also think it depends on the major.

My CS major kid with super high stats got rejected to Stanford, Cal, UMich, CMU, MIT - zero hooks, while some others with similar stats (some lower, some slightly higher) got into those schools but for different majors. Some also did have a hook like DEI.

If you are not hooked, those stats QUALIFY you to apply, but don't guarantee you a place. It's a lottery. There are many more kids with those stats than there are slots to take them. Kids who get in are lucky. Kids who don't get in will undoubtedly do very well no matter where they go to school. College applications are just the start, not the end.

? anyone can apply. You just pay the application fee. And in fact, some students with less than 1500 do get into elite colleges, but yes, more often than not, they have a hook.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

Only the last is a hook.

Some awards could be hooks. Like winning a major science fair, being a Coca-Cola Scholar, etc.

That’s an accomplishment, not a hook.

+1 other than athletics, the "hooks" are all things that the applicant had no hand in; they are not accomplishments performed by the applicant: race, who your parents are, 1st gen

DP. If athletics can act as a hook, so can awards/accomplishments. But they have to be truly outstanding (isef, MIT RSI, Coca-Cola, etc).

I don't know why a subset here has this narrow definition of hook. It's not a technical term, people.

It is a term of art. Athletics itself is actually not a hook. RECRUITED athlete is a hook. If they are reserving a spot on their team for you, then you have a boost in admissions. A hook means a boost over and beyond what is on your application.

A major award is part of your application itself, therefore not a hook. It does make for a very strong application, but that is different.

We were talking about recruited athletics all along. Because I just used athletics (I'm a lazy typist), you assume I don't know this? Good grief.
Legacy is also on your application, so by your definition, you'd have to exclude that.

My point is that hook is not a scientific term. Think about what it does and go with that. We don't need "hook" semantics police!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep seeing people on here say things like "it's impossible to get into unless you have a hook" for kids applying to the likes of Harvard, Princeton, Duke, etc. Is it really that bad? Surely there are plenty of kids even from DMV being accepted without legacy, athletics, big money, etc. Not sure what advice to give my kid who is hoping for a top school without hooks.

Yes. You do. Academics only won't cut it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

"UPenn offers select admitted students merit scholarships through Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. along with multiple dual degree programs such as Huntsman, Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, NETS, VIPER, etc."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

Nope. Look them up. They are research stipends, scholar programs, etc, but not merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

"UPenn offers select admitted students merit scholarships through Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. along with multiple dual degree programs such as Huntsman, Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, NETS, VIPER, etc."

None of these programs provide scholarships for TUITION. That is how most people define merit scholarships or care about: funds towards COA.

[Anonymous]

My kid got in without a hook. Not athlete, not URM, not legacy. Top grades and all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

"UPenn offers select admitted students merit scholarships through Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. along with multiple dual degree programs such as Huntsman, Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, NETS, VIPER, etc."

This quote seems made up. Where is it from? I find Penn referring to itself as Penn (not UPenn) in web lit, and they expressly say they only offer need based aid.
https://srfs.upenn.edu/financial-aid/grants-and-scholarships
Stop giving people some false hope of merit aid. Ivies don't offer merit aid. These scholars/scholarships/grants are research stipends or educational programs.

[Anonymous]

geographic diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

"UPenn offers select admitted students merit scholarships through Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. along with multiple dual degree programs such as Huntsman, Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, NETS, VIPER, etc."

This quote seems made up. Where is it from? I find Penn referring to itself as Penn (not UPenn) in web lit, and they expressly say they only offer need based aid.
https://srfs.upenn.edu/financial-aid/grants-and-scholarships
Stop giving people some false hope of merit aid. Ivies don't offer merit aid. These scholars/scholarships/grants are research stipends or educational programs.

Its confusing because the selection for these are merit-based, so technically they’re merit-based scholarships that come with acceptance for students that Penn most heavily wants to recruit. While they don’t reduce tuition, they come with many financial, research, housing, course registration, and overall academic perks that regular accepted students don’t get. It’s still a recruiting tactic because all top schools have fairly robust financial aid, so these Scholar programs and dual degree programs are a cherry on top of the already good financial aid. Out of an incoming class of 2400 students each year at Penn, ~300-400 will be enrolled through one of these scholarship programs or a dual degree program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

Aren't these announced in the spring, once college decisions would be made? If so, it's not surprising that they got into top-tier schools, because their achievements correlate with what the top-tier schools want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm seeing that the definition of "hook" might vary.

-Top grades
-Top scores
-Awards
-Leadership
-Volunteer
-Strong eval teachers / alum
-URM / UR rural area

The bolded aren't hooks.

Are awards even considered a hook? Recruited athlete, legacy and URM.

Why not? If you win Regeneron STS or something that definitely grabs the attention of admissions teams.

No doubt national award would have a positive affect on an application. I just always considered a hook to be a talent, trait or characteristic (forgot geography too). Honest question, will an award get you admitted over a perceived stronger candidate? IDK.

Maybe, but remembering the post about Coca-Cola Scholars and where they go to college, the correlation is so strong for these top-tier awards that it almost feels like a hook:

I believe there is a significant overlap between Coca-Cola scholars and some of the many merit scholarships at Duke, especially the Robertson Scholars program (which is full scholarship for 4 years) which rewards the same things the Coca-Cola scholarship does (merit/leadership/community service).

That's speculation unless you have actual data for it. Yale, UPenn, Columbia, etc. offer scholarships too. I think from what I've seen Harvard is #1 for Coca-Cola Scholars by a wide margin, as would be expected.

No, the ivy league does not award any merit, talent, or athletic scholarships.

They do have merit scholarships though. They keep it on the down low, but they have many. Yale has scholarships like Hahn and YES scholarships. Columbia has scholarships like Egleston and Kluge scholarships. UPenn has scholarships like Ben Franklin and Vagelos scholarships. The only schools with no scholarships of any form are HPSM.

Thise are not merit scholarships, they are research funding for current students. These schools do not offer merit scholarships for applicants.

Nope you're wrong. These are scholarships offered to admitted students to entice them to enroll. It's a recruiting tactic that generally comes with ample perks and funding throughout the 4 years at any school. Mostly they exist for schools to compete with HPSM.

The first one I checked, Vagelos, says applications are due Oct 23, after the school year starts, so I assume all the rest of the comment is lies too.

https://curf.upenn.edu/content/vagelos-undergraduate-research-grant

"UPenn offers select admitted students merit scholarships through Ben Franklin Scholars, Joseph Wharton Scholars, University Scholars, Penn World Scholars, Civic Scholars, Rachleff Scholars, Public Policy Research Scholars, ISP Scholars, etc. along with multiple dual degree programs such as Huntsman, Jerome Fisher M&T, Vagelos LSM, NETS, VIPER, etc."

This quote seems made up. Where is it from? I find Penn referring to itself as Penn (not UPenn) in web lit, and they expressly say they only offer need based aid.
https://srfs.upenn.edu/financial-aid/grants-and-scholarships
Stop giving people some false hope of merit aid. Ivies don't offer merit aid. These scholars/scholarships/grants are research stipends or educational programs.

Its confusing because the selection for these are merit-based, so technically they’re merit-based scholarships that come with acceptance for students that Penn most heavily wants to recruit. While they don’t reduce tuition, they come with many financial, research, housing, course registration, and overall academic perks that regular accepted students don’t get. It’s still a recruiting tactic because all top schools have fairly robust financial aid, so these Scholar programs and dual degree programs are a cherry on top of the already good financial aid. Out of an incoming class of 2400 students each year at Penn, ~300-400 will be enrolled through one of these scholarship programs or a dual degree program.

PP here. Agree, but "cherry on top" is not what people are thinking when they are seeking merit aid. The PP who kept saying these are merit scholarships is doing a disservice to people looking for merit aid. None of the Ivy league schools offer merit aid. They are need based aid with some possible programs and research grants.