6th grade math placement letters posted

[Anonymous]

For PPs mentioning the CoGat scores, is it the one they took in the 2nd or 3rd grade (I don’t remember which grade it was)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For PPs mentioning the CoGat scores, is it the one they took in the 2nd or 3rd grade (I don’t remember which grade it was)?

It should be interesting to see how APS does placement next year if they're retiring MI. That cohort of kids (currently rising 5th) hasn't taken the full CoGat, but only a short screener version, because of the pandemic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the chart in the letter, 1046 on MI is the highest you can get on Math Inventory but it's the requirement to be placed in pre-algebra? This seems like a way to get rid of the advanced track in Math.

Yes, I wonder if it’s even possible to score higher than 1046 in 5th grade?
My rising 5th DD got 930 in EOY and I’m wondering if that means she answered all the questions correct (she thinks she did). It would be really nice if we could review the questions on those assessments including SOLs.

My seventh grader got a 1142 on mi. It’s definitely possible. We supplemented during covid so she was very ahead. 1040 is the algebra readiness level.

What did you use?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm I wasn't going to email to ask for placement but seems like my kid needs to take Algebra intensified or geometry to have a shot at TJHSST, which is his dream. No idea if he can even get in given he didn't get placed initially but also don't want to reduce his chances already in 6th. Again I know it's a long shot school, he is just so obsessed with science

FWIW, Swanson got 4 TJHSST spots this year, and only 1 of them went to a kid who had done the pre-alg/alg 1 intensified/geometry 1 intensified track. The other 3 spots went to kids who did Math 6/pre-alg/alg 1 intensified. It used to be that you had to take geometry in 8th grade to have a shot at the TJHSST spots, but that isn't true now that TJHSST changed the admissions criteria.

How are alg 1 intensified and geo intensified different from alg 1 and geo?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI I emailed the math person from our middle school and detailed exactly why I thought my son should be in pre-algebra for 6th instead of math 6, and she agreed with my reasoning and he was put in pre-algebra for 6th graders. So changes are possible.

(Please don't come at me for this, we had good reasons and from an early age he seemed destined for STEM)

How wild! Our son was disappointed about his placement, so we did the same. The math person indicated that there is nothing they can do, and that the placement is what it is. And if he's still interested in being placed in Pre-Algebra, then the central APS Math Office is going to require him take a readiness test (on the day before school starts, after a summer of, well, being a kid having fun during the summer).

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that they'd want to set and enforce standards, but this feels fairly arbitrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For PPs mentioning the CoGat scores, is it the one they took in the 2nd or 3rd grade (I don’t remember which grade it was)?

It should be interesting to see how APS does placement next year if they're retiring MI. That cohort of kids (currently rising 5th) hasn't taken the full CoGat, but only a short screener version, because of the pandemic.

They piloted a new test this year (so I assume they will be using that). I don't know what it is called but my kid said they all took it, then only some kids took the second part and then even less kids took the third part (he made it to the 3rd and final part). I don't 'know if there was a 4th part but if there was no one at his school made it. No idea what it is called though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

PP - just to clarify, this was not intended to be a dig at the teachers (which, in re-reading, it is absolutely written that way). I meant more that the classroom instruction and performance seemed at least in part influenced by behavior in the rest of the classroom, interest level of their peers in the small group math activities, etc.

I have to imagine that it's very hard to control for those things across classrooms, so setting the thresholds based on acquired knowledge, and not also having a way to consider ability, seems like a disservice to the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI I emailed the math person from our middle school and detailed exactly why I thought my son should be in pre-algebra for 6th instead of math 6, and she agreed with my reasoning and he was put in pre-algebra for 6th graders. So changes are possible.

(Please don't come at me for this, we had good reasons and from an early age he seemed destined for STEM)

How wild! Our son was disappointed about his placement, so we did the same. The math person indicated that there is nothing they can do, and that the placement is what it is. And if he's still interested in being placed in Pre-Algebra, then the central APS Math Office is going to require him take a readiness test (on the day before school starts, after a summer of, well, being a kid having fun during the summer).

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that they'd want to set and enforce standards, but this feels fairly arbitrary.

I am sorry, I am another poster that said her kid was moved up upon request. I imagine it does vary by school due to scores or availability (they can only fit so many kids in the class). When I requested placement, I focused on my kid's motivation to learn and STEM obsession. I don't know much about the readiness test before school but I know a number of kids that were moved up the first two weeks after 6th grade BOY math assessments.

I have always hated standardized testing but am still bitter about law school and the LSAT (and heck the SAT lol).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

After seeing how many kids end up struggling or miserable, high standards for 2x acceleration are a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI I emailed the math person from our middle school and detailed exactly why I thought my son should be in pre-algebra for 6th instead of math 6, and she agreed with my reasoning and he was put in pre-algebra for 6th graders. So changes are possible.

(Please don't come at me for this, we had good reasons and from an early age he seemed destined for STEM)

How wild! Our son was disappointed about his placement, so we did the same. The math person indicated that there is nothing they can do, and that the placement is what it is. And if he's still interested in being placed in Pre-Algebra, then the central APS Math Office is going to require him take a readiness test (on the day before school starts, after a summer of, well, being a kid having fun during the summer).

All of this seems extraordinary to me, particularly as at no point has anyone been measuring their capacity to learn or interest level, but rather what they were taught in the classroom.

Anyway, it makes sense to me that they'd want to set and enforce standards, but this feels fairly arbitrary.

PP here and that sucks. I thought it would be a pretty easy ask, but I was surprised that the math coach said she thought the change made sense based on a very specific circumstance (DS somehow missed the memo that you can't skip questions and go back, presumably because he has ADHD. He now has a 504 requiring he be given written instructions in addition to verbal instructions, and we were able to get that accommodation because he missed so many instructions on the writing SOL that it couldn't even be considered complete by the state and I had to do a parent opt-out it).

But it sounds like what your math person said contradicts what the placement letter stated. Didn't it say that they would work with parents to ensure placement was appropriate? And why give the names and contact info of math coaches at each school if it really is set in stone and their hands are tied? In your shoes I would probably do some outside enrichment, see if you can make a more solid case for re-placement, and appeal. I know it sucks to do enrichment over the summer but my stem-loving kid actually enjoyed outside enrichment much more than I thought he would. We just did maybe 3 Khan academy lessons plus a little Singapore math lesson on dividing fractions. If your kid really can pick up things quickly and enjoys it, I don't think you need to be intense about enrichment in order for him to get a higher score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For PPs mentioning the CoGat scores, is it the one they took in the 2nd or 3rd grade (I don’t remember which grade it was)?

My child didn't take the tests those years so they used one he took this year. Sorry this info isn't helpful.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

After seeing how many kids end up struggling or miserable, high standards for 2x acceleration are a good thing.

I'm not sure the number who are struggling or miserable is so high that it merits the vastly raised standards for acceleration, but if those numbers really are that high, they should have just reduced the intensity of the advanced track. I don't think it's great to give kids with really high scores on the CoGat, SOL, and MI a curriculum with the same content and pacing as a kid who still struggles with times tables and place value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmm I wasn't going to email to ask for placement but seems like my kid needs to take Algebra intensified or geometry to have a shot at TJHSST, which is his dream. No idea if he can even get in given he didn't get placed initially but also don't want to reduce his chances already in 6th. Again I know it's a long shot school, he is just so obsessed with science

FWIW, Swanson got 4 TJHSST spots this year, and only 1 of them went to a kid who had done the pre-alg/alg 1 intensified/geometry 1 intensified track. The other 3 spots went to kids who did Math 6/pre-alg/alg 1 intensified. It used to be that you had to take geometry in 8th grade to have a shot at the TJHSST spots, but that isn't true now that TJHSST changed the admissions criteria.

How are alg 1 intensified and geo intensified different from alg 1 and geo?

Deeper dive into topics plus several additional topics not covered in the non accelerated classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had though at some point folks said that the score needed to get into Algebra 1 was 1046. And that pre algebra was in the 900s. MAYBE 940 but I may have made that up.

To get into pre Algebra 7 the you need a 475 on the SOL and a 785 on MI. So it seems weird to me that you need a lower score to get into that when it comes 7/8 grade math.

Where did you get the numbers for Algebra 7, they seem low

DP. Its detailed on the letter to rising 7th grade parents. FWIW there is definitely teacher input. My DD scored very low on the MI which was weird b/c she's an A student. The teacher worked with her to see what was wrong and looks like it had to do with something that one of new 5th grade teachers at the elementary school didn't teach last year (she said she had multiple kids with the same issue and same 5th grade teacher). But then DD score very high on the Math SOL. She was put in Pre-Alg 7.

My kid is the opposite. High MI, just missed the cut off for SOL, and recommended for math 7. Kid goofs off in class so that’s probably why. Debating whether we should push it or not…

I wouldn’t put a kid who goofs off in an accelerated class like this. It’s not fair to them or the other kids.

+1 and sounds like mom is already making excuses for him. (He rushed the SOL…)

Excuses? No, I’m explaining why I think the teacher input factored in - because the kid goofs off and doesn’t take it seriously. Even though kid clearly knows the content.

And pre-alg for 7th really is not all that accelerated. I have older kids who’ve taken more accelerated paths. Part of why kid goofed off is that math 6 is boring AF.

Can’t speak to “Math 6 is boring AF”, since, you know, I’m an adult and not actually in the room.

I know many kids who’ve done math 6 & kids who did pre-alg for 6th (math 6/7/8). Consensus is that math 6 is boring AF. Have you seen the syllabus? Very, very little new material after 5th.

I know kids, too. It’s not like a twelve-year-old to say math is boring! Your kid didn’t get in- because he didn't get in. I think you should trust the process and let him solidify his math skills. He’ll be ok.

Parent of a kid who just finished middle school here. No, do not blindly “trust the process” if you think your kid belongs in the higher math class. They have raised the cutoff scores in recent years in an effort to have fewer kids on the advanced track, for whatever reason. We had to push back to get our kid into the advanced class. He just finished geometry, and had no trouble earning all As all 3 years of MS math. Math ended up his favorite subject, too.

Recent education theories argue that pushing kids into an advance track too early causes them to grow too dislike math. Not saying it's right or wrong but there is an anti acceleration movement out there.

https://robertkaplinsky.com/the-case-against-acceleration/

https://www.nea.org/advocating-for-change/new-from-nea/how-much-math-too-much

wow. I hope APS isn't being guided by her recommendations.

They are, hence the excessively high standard for acceleration

After seeing how many kids end up struggling or miserable, high standards for 2x acceleration are a good thing.

I'm not sure the number who are struggling or miserable is so high that it merits the vastly raised standards for acceleration, but if those numbers really are that high, they should have just reduced the intensity of the advanced track. I don't think it's great to give kids with really high scores on the CoGat, SOL, and MI a curriculum with the same content and pacing as a kid who still struggles with times tables and place value.

I do think there should be a math 6/7 and then prealgebra honors option. Math 6 is boring and Math 6/7/8 is too much for many kids.

I don’t think watering down the material is the answer.