Percentage of Students on Financial Aid at Major Privates is Depressing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to figure out there OP's complaint. Is the complaint that local DMV schools don't have bigger endowments to fund more aid? Or that they, specifically, did not receive the aid they hoped for?

OP here. There's dismay at the numbers generally. There's dismay at the lack of commitment to building an endowment for financial aid (as opposed to tons of other things). There's dismay at the perpetuation of wide economic inequality and the continued stratification of a wider range of kids to relate to people who are different from them. There's dismay at the relatively low numbers compared to schools that have made similar commitments. I don't deny the endowment effect, but where is the endowment going? Why are you building the endowment? There are some schools raising tens of millions so they can have bigger gyms. The priorities, imo, are off. Especially in light of some of the stated missions of the schools.

I find this sentiment intriguing. You're trying to turn your favorite private into the diversity fantasy of your imagination. Which, to me, doesn't reconcile with the concept of an expensive private school. The funny thing is that if it did become what you hope for, it wouldn't be the privates any more but something else entirely. At that point might as well just go to a good public.

As it is, 20-25% of student body on financial aid seems normal for day private schools to me. In many ways it's pretty impressive it's this high.

With the condition that public school are in, especially in DC, there aren't as many good options for many families for a safe and solid education. I don't agree with how public schools are being reduced to nothingness all over, and in what poor shape they are here in DC. And there's only so much one can do to support public schools while also looking out for their own children's education. I did not grow up with a lot of money, and as an educator who sees the benefits of socioeconomic diversity for all students, as well as for giving those with less a better chance at a good education, this is a value I wish private schools took more seriously. You don't have to understand my experience, nor do you have to agree with my values. I explained why it's dismaying. You disagree based on your own different values. It's fine to disagree about what is impressive and what is not, based on those values.

The post is a long winded way of saying you want rich people to pay for your kids' education. Is there something wrong with taxpayers paying for your kids' education like they do for most kids? If DC schools don't work for you, easy solution. Move to the burbs.

+1

+100. Your child isn’t entitled to a private school education funded by someone else’s wealthy parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, donations would do more good elsewhere and financial aid at these schools should not exist.

Yes! Donating money to a school that provides FA to a family making over 200K a year is not a good use of money we want to donate. There are people with urgent immediate needs. People are hungry, sick, and homeless. The family earning over 200K can afford to move in bounds for many strong public schools. Private school is a luxury. Nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why exactly do you find it depressing?
Because tuition is so expensive that so many need aid? Or not enough families are being helped, in your opinion?

I went to privates schools in Europe, and for a brief period, sent my kids to some before we came here to the DC area. In 2013, a good private international school in Paris was about 12K euros per year. Paris has a higher cost of living than DC.

Here the private schools cost 60K a year and there is no way I want to pay for acres of lawn, sports complexes, leather armchairs in the library, etc... when the actual teaching is on par with what my kids had in Paris at 12K euros a year. Granted, the campuses weren't luxurious at all. But at least the food was OK.

So here we're in good public schools. They need to bring lunch, because the school lunches are inedible. Otherwise the teaching is fine. The buildings are a notch down from what they had in their Parisian privates, but still OK.

It's really nice that parents on this board can afford to pay 60K a year for something that's not US undergrad. I wouldn't want to be on financial aid for private K-12, personally.

What was the student-teacher ratio in Paris? Public schools here have 2x-3x the crowding that private schools have. That's the #1 thing that makes public schools bad -- kids don't get classes and attention focused on their needs and readiness.

Look at it this way: would you rather have your kid in a somewhat bigger class taught by a pretty good teacher, or a somewhat smaller class taught by someone who was not good enough to have been previously hired? Because that is, at the margins, what is going to happen if you increase the number of teachers to reduce class size.

For what it's worth, there is some actual data on reducing class size and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference in outcomes until it shrinks to something like twelve students per class.

The budget way to ensure kids get classes and attention focused on needs and readiness is academic tracking, which in private schools is largely done by the admissions team and in public schools is only acceptable on the margins -- the gifted/semi-gifted do get special programs in some districts (e.g. FCPS), similarly for the severely intellectually disabled. But expanding the number of levels (or even keeping to the current three) is strongly disfavored due to concerns about equity and the pretense that everyone should go to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are you going to find these poor kids who can do the work at a Big3?

Andover and Exeter take applicant nationally and internationally. Sidwell and NCS are stuck with the DMV.

My kids came from DCPS to two different Big3 schools in 9th. They attended the best DCPS elementary/middle schools and scored 99% on the PARCC (achievement tests). They're the product of two parents with graduate degrees.
They had every advantage that such kids have: top early childhood education (private preschool), parental help all along the way from PK-->8th grade, a house full of books, private tutors if/when needed, international travel, exposure to different cultures through family friends, nanny, etc.
AND STILL---9th grade at the Big3 coming out of DCPS was ROUGTH. They had to repeat a grade in math and start over in foreign language (they were put in Spanish 101 despite having 3 years of Spanish in DCPS). They learned annotate for the first time, they finally learned to write well.

They got through it with a LOT of parental involvement, tutors, teacher office hours, etc.

Now what happens to the kid who attends many of the myriad of DC public schools where only 5% of the kids are at grade level? Kids who have none of the resources that my kids did?

It's not as easy as just giving a poor kid a free ride to Sidwell. It's really hard to find these kids who come from true poverty and will be able to hack the academics and culture at these elite schools with little (or no) support at home.

There is a nonprofit called Prep For Prep in NYC that matches low-income URMs with elite NYC privates starting in middle school. The program has a rigorous training component that the kids must commit to, and NYC is huge with robust public transportation, however.

Yes, but they're in a city of 9 million people and fund about 500 kids. Plus a large percentage are Asian immigrants.

Prep for Prep does not have a large percentage of Asian immigrants.

I came here to say this. Asian American kids are the minority within the program, in part because they are only eligible for the 4th/5th grade cohort. By the time PfP is getting kids ready for 9th grade admissions, only African American and Latino kids are eligible.

It's weird, though, that PP speaks so confidently about something they don't know anything about.

Why are Asians not eligible at 9th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are you going to find these poor kids who can do the work at a Big3?

Andover and Exeter take applicant nationally and internationally. Sidwell and NCS are stuck with the DMV.

My kids came from DCPS to two different Big3 schools in 9th. They attended the best DCPS elementary/middle schools and scored 99% on the PARCC (achievement tests). They're the product of two parents with graduate degrees.
They had every advantage that such kids have: top early childhood education (private preschool), parental help all along the way from PK-->8th grade, a house full of books, private tutors if/when needed, international travel, exposure to different cultures through family friends, nanny, etc.
AND STILL---9th grade at the Big3 coming out of DCPS was ROUGTH. They had to repeat a grade in math and start over in foreign language (they were put in Spanish 101 despite having 3 years of Spanish in DCPS). They learned annotate for the first time, they finally learned to write well.

They got through it with a LOT of parental involvement, tutors, teacher office hours, etc.

Now what happens to the kid who attends many of the myriad of DC public schools where only 5% of the kids are at grade level? Kids who have none of the resources that my kids did?

It's not as easy as just giving a poor kid a free ride to Sidwell. It's really hard to find these kids who come from true poverty and will be able to hack the academics and culture at these elite schools with little (or no) support at home.

There is a nonprofit called Prep For Prep in NYC that matches low-income URMs with elite NYC privates starting in middle school. The program has a rigorous training component that the kids must commit to, and NYC is huge with robust public transportation, however.

Yes, but they're in a city of 9 million people and fund about 500 kids. Plus a large percentage are Asian immigrants.

Prep for Prep does not have a large percentage of Asian immigrants.

I came here to say this. Asian American kids are the minority within the program, in part because they are only eligible for the 4th/5th grade cohort. By the time PfP is getting kids ready for 9th grade admissions, only African American and Latino kids are eligible.

It's weird, though, that PP speaks so confidently about something they don't know anything about.

Why are Asians not eligible at 9th?

Guessing that it is because the program is aimed at kids who are underrepresented in New York's elite high schools and Asian American kids are not, for a variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Unless you are at a top 3 school. None of this means anything to the future. The middle schools don't add benefits unless high achieving athletes or minorities. We're not in that group and switching to public where there is real diversity and better outcomes if you care about college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GDS: 23.9%
Sidwell: 21%
Maret: 24%
NCS: 21%
STA: 29%

Going to a private school is a luxury. You should no more be entitled to financial aid for a private school than you should be to buy a Mercedes or join a country club. Many well to do people skip fancy cars and country clubs. If you want the luxuries, that's fine, pay for it yourself.

[Anonymous]

This is always a very sensitive subject on this forum and among these families. People don’t like to acknowledge that they are raising their children in a bubble of privilege and entitlement at the same time they purport to support diversity and inclusion. So they attack the messenger.

The most honest are those who say they don’t really care about the latter and are happy about the former.

The schools are never that honest even though they agree.

[Anonymous]

For most parents at our private, paying tuition comes with trade offs. It is not much different than the student/family population in high performing public districts. In fact, due to financial aid it is likely has more socioeconomic diversity and pulls students from a wider area.

I would not call it a bubble of privilege however that is entirely relative.

And it is totally incorrect to say that these schools and parents do not care about diversity/inclusion. They are putting forward many million each year to support financial aid for approx 1/4 of the students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, donations would do more good elsewhere and financial aid at these schools should not exist.

Yes! Donating money to a school that provides FA to a family making over 200K a year is not a good use of money we want to donate. There are people with urgent immediate needs. People are hungry, sick, and homeless. The family earning over 200K can afford to move in bounds for many strong public schools. Private school is a luxury. Nothing more.

Here's the harsh reality: DCUM only wants aid to go to families who are "poor" or an HHI under $200K. They gripe about $200K, so really they're talking about limiting aid to families <$150K.
So basically you're talking about single income families (and DCUM has a problem with that unless it's a single parent family) OR blue collar families. Because as soon as you have a two income family
making white collar wages they're going to be very close to topping $200K.

If they are in that <150K bracket in the DMV they're most likely in a 1)crappy school district PK-8 (or whatever grade they transfer to private) and learning who the heck knows what
and 2)they likely don't have all the supports that make it possible for a kid to succeed at these pressure-cooker elite schools: educated parents (with free time to drive the kids all over time), tutors, extracurriculars, etc.
So realistically transferring this kid to an elite private isn't going to go to well.

The DCUM "ideal" financial aid family is really a unicorn in these parts: HHI income under $150K, really bright kid who can handle the work, super invested/educated parents who can support the kid.

I know of what I speak---RN, married to a fed, DCPS, went to a Big3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GDS: 23.9%
Sidwell: 21%
Maret: 24%
NCS: 21%
STA: 29%

Going to a private school is a luxury. You should no more be entitled to financial aid for a private school than you should be to buy a Mercedes or join a country club. Many well to do people skip fancy cars and country clubs. If you want the luxuries, that's fine, pay for it yourself.

I 100% agree. I also think DC should be taxing the land these schools sit on at the same rate that they tax any commercial building

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, donations would do more good elsewhere and financial aid at these schools should not exist.

Yes! Donating money to a school that provides FA to a family making over 200K a year is not a good use of money we want to donate. There are people with urgent immediate needs. People are hungry, sick, and homeless. The family earning over 200K can afford to move in bounds for many strong public schools. Private school is a luxury. Nothing more.

Here's the harsh reality: DCUM only wants aid to go to families who are "poor" or an HHI under $200K. They gripe about $200K, so really they're talking about limiting aid to families <$150K.
So basically you're talking about single income families (and DCUM has a problem with that unless it's a single parent family) OR blue collar families. Because as soon as you have a two income family
making white collar wages they're going to be very close to topping $200K.

If they are in that <150K bracket in the DMV they're most likely in a 1)crappy school district PK-8 (or whatever grade they transfer to private) and learning who the heck knows what
and 2)they likely don't have all the supports that make it possible for a kid to succeed at these pressure-cooker elite schools: educated parents (with free time to drive the kids all over time), tutors, extracurriculars, etc.
So realistically transferring this kid to an elite private isn't going to go to well.

The DCUM "ideal" financial aid family is really a unicorn in these parts: HHI income under $150K, really bright kid who can handle the work, super invested/educated parents who can support the kid.

I know of what I speak---RN, married to a fed, DCPS, went to a Big3.

If they truly value diversity, the schools would make it their business to help such students succeed.

But they don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, donations would do more good elsewhere and financial aid at these schools should not exist.

Yes! Donating money to a school that provides FA to a family making over 200K a year is not a good use of money we want to donate. There are people with urgent immediate needs. People are hungry, sick, and homeless. The family earning over 200K can afford to move in bounds for many strong public schools. Private school is a luxury. Nothing more.

Here's the harsh reality: DCUM only wants aid to go to families who are "poor" or an HHI under $200K. They gripe about $200K, so really they're talking about limiting aid to families <$150K.
So basically you're talking about single income families (and DCUM has a problem with that unless it's a single parent family) OR blue collar families. Because as soon as you have a two income family
making white collar wages they're going to be very close to topping $200K.

If they are in that <150K bracket in the DMV they're most likely in a 1)crappy school district PK-8 (or whatever grade they transfer to private) and learning who the heck knows what
and 2)they likely don't have all the supports that make it possible for a kid to succeed at these pressure-cooker elite schools: educated parents (with free time to drive the kids all over time), tutors, extracurriculars, etc.
So realistically transferring this kid to an elite private isn't going to go to well.

The DCUM "ideal" financial aid family is really a unicorn in these parts: HHI income under $150K, really bright kid who can handle the work, super invested/educated parents who can support the kid.

I know of what I speak---RN, married to a fed, DCPS, went to a Big3.

If they truly value diversity, the schools would make it their business to help such students succeed.

But they don’t.

Nonsense that they should accept students who cannot perform on a regular academic track. Total nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm terrified by the anti private school financial aid theme some posters are propagating.

What insecurity must you have to be frightened by the possibility of a vague stab at meritocracy.

I don’t know why people listen to these people. I hate to think about the number of people that don’t apply for financial aid because of the sentiments of strangers they don’t know.

Who are you trying to impress? These same people on their high horse pay as little money as possible in taxes, hide their money and don’t pay their fair share proportionally.

I personally have a HHI of 300K and get 80% in aid at a top NYC school for one child. GASP!! Lol Why? Because we actually can’t afford full tuition based upon our expenses and the school decided they want my family. Period. I didn’t beg anyone for money. I applied. We were fortunate enough to receive and here we are. End of story.

I would not go broke trying to pay much more than I’m paying and the value that my child and family give to the school would be lost to the other members of the school.

Admittedly what people say here is true and yes, it’s a little shocking. Very few truly poor kids go to private school. Even URM like myself that are black. The overwhelming number of my black friends pay full price.
I guess it’s a great place to be at given where this country is at this time in our history.

So how do we rectify this problem? It is indeed a problem in my opinion. So many deserve this type of education and could benefit. I outreach to those that think a private school education is unattainable. I support programs that help URM succeed and provide resources.

I am grateful for my blessings and give back in time and effort and will continue to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm terrified by the anti private school financial aid theme some posters are propagating.

What insecurity must you have to be frightened by the possibility of a vague stab at meritocracy.

I don’t know why people listen to these people. I hate to think about the number of people that don’t apply for financial aid because of the sentiments of strangers they don’t know.

Who are you trying to impress? These same people on their high horse pay as little money as possible in taxes, hide their money and don’t pay their fair share proportionally.

I personally have a HHI of 300K and get 80% in aid at a top NYC school for one child. GASP!! Lol Why? Because we actually can’t afford full tuition based upon our expenses and the school decided they want my family. Period. I didn’t beg anyone for money. I applied. We were fortunate enough to receive and here we are. End of story.

I would not go broke trying to pay much more than I’m paying and the value that my child and family give to the school would be lost to the other members of the school.

Admittedly what people say here is true and yes, it’s a little shocking. Very few truly poor kids go to private school. Even URM like myself that are black. The overwhelming number of my black friends pay full price.
I guess it’s a great place to be at given where this country is at this time in our history.

So how do we rectify this problem? It is indeed a problem in my opinion. So many deserve this type of education and could benefit. I outreach to those that think a private school education is unattainable. I support programs that help URM succeed and provide resources.

I am grateful for my blessings and give back in time and effort and will continue to do so.

We make $350K and get 80% aid for a second child here in DC. Why? We asked.
I am only kicking myself for not asking sooner because I had also read DCUM and thought that there was no way we'd qualify.
I finally did ask because our real-life friends applied for aid on a $350K income (here in DC) and receive about a 25% discount.
When in doubt, apply for aid. The worst the school can do is say no.
Also--every DC school's budget is not equal. Some schools may have an income cut-off of $200k. At some it's >$400K.
Schools are far more likely to give aid for years 9-12 than from PK-12. When they sign up a kid for aid at age 4 they are looking at subsidizing 14 years of that kid's education, without even knowing anything about the kid's contributions to the school.
For 9-12 they're only taking a gamble on 4 years.
Also, some calendar years they have more aid than others (they may have just graduated a class heavy on aid kids)
There are many different factors that go into this process.