Church attendance continues to plummet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is true that most ex-churchgoers blame inflexibility of the church on social issues but I don't see them switching to a more liberal church. They just give it up altogether.
In my very blue area we have three types of churches:
-Mainline Protestant: all in with rainbow flags, BLM signs, and the congregation is sparse and gray-haired. One church even does a special Family service with coffee, donuts, fingerpainting and invites people to wear their PAJAMAS. Many families go once or twice and never go back.
-Catholic: around here they go out of their way to stay apolitical. No mention of abortion or any other sin other than not loving your neighbor. Still well attended though mostly by old people.
-Evangelical: All in on the culture war, spouting conservative talking points, and full of young families. Standing room only.

Interesting. We are in a blue area too. Our church is packed, multi generational and growing. Our family is there a few times a week for fun activities or to volunteer in addition to Sunday service. It would be considered evangelical, but no political leanings. One interesting thing is that when we first started attending it was majority one race and now it is a melting pot. I think the church leaders knew that it couldn't stay the way it was and see growth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.

I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.

I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.

Wow

“Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

Does that go for anything that anyone believes?

Sure. But most people apply it only to God. Can you think of any other being that people believe in that is invisible?

Are you kidding?

Ghosts.

Angels, guardian or otherwise.

A large number of myths of other cultures

Not to mention the many mythical creatures that are not invisible, but hide from sight.

And of course there is the biggest question I have of all which is which of the 3000 or so documented God beliefs is the right one? If at least one person believes in each of them, does that make them all real?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We attend a non denominational Christian church in the area. I go the most often in our family. It has a decent amount of attendance - not huge, not small. The have modern music and the messages are well thought out.

Years ago we attended a more traditional Methodist church but right before the pandemic I realized that it was just so old fashioned - not just the service but the entire physical building and the congregation. A lot of people still wanted to dress up for every service -some women would wear pantyhose even, classic organ music, full robed choir, and so on. The music and the messages were uninspiring and they were just kind of blah. I kind of felt like I was back in the 1950s. I don't think that is just limited to that church and I think far too many resisted for far too long that the formal church going of previous decades wasn't needed anymore. Is church any less church if someone wears shorts instead of a suit?

It used to be that church was a dress-up occasion - like going to the opera, or prom.

And don't forget Easter Bonnets!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Attendance in all civic associations has been declining for 50 years. Religions (or any volunteer clubs with attendance and service requirements) demand a lot from people; most claim they don't go due to dogmatic issues or in protest of scandal, but I think these are cop-outs. It's mostly because it's easier to not go every Sunday. Americans have just become pretty lazy and self-absorbed, and it's easier to lie around and do your phone. Mainline Protestant churches are a proof point: They've dropped almost all dogma. Anything goes, they've bent over backwards to modern sensibilities, and their attendance has declined the most. I do think we are all worse off for it. Churches used to provide the social norms that gave people purpose, and kept behavior within acceptable bounds without the use of laws, contracts, or force. This is now largely gone, and there's a cost to that. We are now a low-trust society. And yes, I know that we used to be segregated and bla bla, but guess what--we still are. Literally everyone in a given neighborhood is now an ideological clone of one another. I met an ex-Catholic recently who said she stopped going to Mass because she doesn't believe that transubstantiation is scientifically possible... ahem... yeah, we get it. At some point, you just have to do the stuff and suspend your disbelief.

Or not do the stuff and not suspend your disbelief. Maybe all of all this, there will come places for people to get the social benefits of religious institutions without having to pretend to believe in God.

Ethical Societies and some Unitarian churches do this now. Also some Episcopalian churches, although they have completely Christian rituals. And there's one Jewish temple in DC that is humanist.

I don’t know if ANY Episcopal churches that are humanist and not religious in foundation.

We care deeply about people but have not thrown away the baby with the dirty bath water.

Episcopal churches do the whole Christian ritual, but some, e.g., in the DMV area, while not openly humanist, do not focus on traditional Christian belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.

I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.

I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.

Wow

“Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

Does that go for anything that anyone believes?

Sure. But most people apply it only to God. Can you think of any other being that people believe in that is invisible?

Are you kidding?

Ghosts.

Angels, guardian or otherwise.

A large number of myths of other cultures

Not to mention the many mythical creatures that are not invisible, but hide from sight.

And of course there is the biggest question I have of all which is which of the 3000 or so documented God beliefs is the right one? If at least one person believes in each of them, does that make them all real?

OK, but ghosts aren't religious and mythical characters are not believed in anymore, which is why we call them myths. As for all those other gods, people who believe in the One True God know that those other ones are just made up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.

I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.

I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.

Wow

“Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

Does that go for anything that anyone believes?

Sure. But most people apply it only to God. Can you think of any other being that people believe in that is invisible?

Are you kidding?

Ghosts.

Angels, guardian or otherwise.

A large number of myths of other cultures

Not to mention the many mythical creatures that are not invisible, but hide from sight.

And of course there is the biggest question I have of all which is which of the 3000 or so documented God beliefs is the right one? If at least one person believes in each of them, does that make them all real?

OK, but ghosts aren't religious and mythical characters are not believed in anymore, which is why we call them myths. As for all those other gods, people who believe in the One True God know that those other ones are just made up.

Everything you have typed is untrue.

Ghosts are in fact, part of many religious traditions and rituals.

"Certain religious practices—funeral rites, exorcisms, and some practices of spiritualism and ritual magic—are specifically designed to rest the spirits of the dead."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost

And many people believe in them. That does not make them real, of course.

Plenty of people still believe in mythologies (Including you, in my opinion). This is only one example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenism_(modern_religion)

Which god is "the one true god" and how did you disprove all the others?

(that's rhetorical, I know you didn't, and I know you have no real evidence yours is the one).

But you didn't answer my main question.

You typed "if you believe in him, he's real.". Couldn't that apply to any god?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The biggest problem with a drop in church attendance and faith adherence is that we're collectively losing the sense that there's something greater than ourselves -- something positive that challenges us to elevate and better ourselves for the common good during the blink of our individual existence.

I hope you realize that you are mentioning two different things:

“Something greater than ourselves “. I don’t know what that is or means. I certainly see no evidence for that. Or need.

“Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ which I think is what we refer to as “society “. No need for anything supernatural.

I agree and will add that I think that “Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

As for “Something that challenges us to elevate ourselves “ it can be society or other real, not supernatural (i.e., imaginary) things.

Some people, though, really need to feel more consequential than they are as individuals, and God/religion/church helps them feel that way.

Wow

“Something greater than ourselves “ is God. Yes, he's invisible, but if you believe in him, he's real.

Does that go for anything that anyone believes?

Sure. But most people apply it only to God. Can you think of any other being that people believe in that is invisible?

Are you kidding?

Ghosts.

Angels, guardian or otherwise.

A large number of myths of other cultures

Not to mention the many mythical creatures that are not invisible, but hide from sight.

And of course there is the biggest question I have of all which is which of the 3000 or so documented God beliefs is the right one? If at least one person believes in each of them, does that make them all real?

OK, but ghosts aren't religious and mythical characters are not believed in anymore, which is why we call them myths. As for all those other gods, people who believe in the One True God know that those other ones are just made up.

Everything you have typed is untrue.

Ghosts are in fact, part of many religious traditions and rituals.

"Certain religious practices—funeral rites, exorcisms, and some practices of spiritualism and ritual magic—are specifically designed to rest the spirits of the dead."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost

And many people believe in them. That does not make them real, of course.

Plenty of people still believe in mythologies (Including you, in my opinion). This is only one example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenism_(modern_religion)

Which god is "the one true god" and how did you disprove all the others?

(that's rhetorical, I know you didn't, and I know you have no real evidence yours is the one).

But you didn't answer my main question.

You typed "if you believe in him, he's real.". Couldn't that apply to any god?

Yes, "if you believe in him, he's real" could apply to any god. I am an atheist. Thanks for all your research into my other statements. I had no idea that people still believed in mythologies. I thought once something was called a mythology, people no longer believed in it.

I think that someday, just as we have Roman and Greek Mythology, we will have Christian Mythology. It won't be as interesting though, because there is only one God in Christian mythology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Catholic church, which tool a huge hit during covid, is almost back to it’s pre-pandemic numbers in terms of attendance and the school has a waitlist. I am very optimistic that church attendance will continue to grow.

that's nice -- but still no evidence that the Catholic Church is correct, right?

Correct about what exactly? You are just looking to pick a fight and bash the Church.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But anyway, most of the things listed sound white and boring.

White?

Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs

Which of these doesn’t sound white?

And most churches are white too, outside of the ones that have been essentially adopted by immigrant groups because white people don’t attend anymore.

Have you ever been to a church in downtown DC? Anacostia? I assure you that they are vibrant communities and most definitely not white. Black people are overwhelmingly religious and attend church. So tell me what sounds black to you?

Okay… so there are immigrant and black churches. Other than that, everything else is white

And so what? Are white people not allowed to exist anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But anyway, most of the things listed sound white and boring.

White?

Ruritans, ladies clubs, book groups, bowling leagues, golf leagues, yacht clubs, country clubs, DAR, union halls, VFW clubs and events, hunting clubs

Which of these doesn’t sound white?

And most churches are white too, outside of the ones that have been essentially adopted by immigrant groups because white people don’t attend anymore.

Have you ever been to a church in downtown DC? Anacostia? I assure you that they are vibrant communities and most definitely not white. Black people are overwhelmingly religious and attend church. So tell me what sounds black to you?

Okay… so there are immigrant and black churches. Other than that, everything else is white

And so what? Are white people not allowed to exist anymore?

More germane, white people are still the majority in this country, even if not for long. So it only makes sense that the majority of churches have white congregations. PP is quarreling with basic math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Catholic church, which tool a huge hit during covid, is almost back to it’s pre-pandemic numbers in terms of attendance and the school has a waitlist. I am very optimistic that church attendance will continue to grow.

that's nice -- but still no evidence that the Catholic Church is correct, right?

Correct about what exactly? You are just looking to pick a fight and bash the Church.

Sounds like you are the one trying to pick a fight. Actually there is no evidence that any religion is right. Faith is what counts when it comes to religion.

You want facts -- look to science.

[Anonymous]

I keep hearing this, but a new church pops up near me every day. Everyone I know is Christian and goes to church, and my neighborhood is dominated by a group of evangelical mean girls. I only wish religion would plummet faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing this, but a new church pops up near me every day. Everyone I know is Christian and goes to church, and my neighborhood is dominated by a group of evangelical mean girls. I only wish religion would plummet faster.

Where I live there is a church every 10 feet and their parking lots are full to bursting each Sunday. Everyone here is Christian, and they have large families.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I didn’t read the whole thread. But I am not surprised.
I think this shows in our current culture in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing this, but a new church pops up near me every day. Everyone I know is Christian and goes to church, and my neighborhood is dominated by a group of evangelical mean girls. I only wish religion would plummet faster.

Gives people a reason to hate others.