What Confederacy of Imbiciles Is Working To Prevent A Later Start Time For MCPS High Schools?

[Anonymous]

There are multiple issues - they need to stagger the school buses as they don't have enough drivers/buses and kids have after school activities and homework. They have much more homework in MS/HS so if you have a 4:00PM release then kids may not be able to participate in activities due to their start time and they still have to get their homework done. So, then they wouldn't go to bed till even later. Kids can deal with it, just like we did and if they need more sleep go to bed earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - 7 pages of squabbling on this today, and very little actually thoughtful, informative, or productive. On the off-chance that could change ...

The limiting factor logistically for having the staggered start times are the number of buses required to transport everyone. That was the cost identified in the original study. One thing that could be advocated for is increased public transportation during HS/MS start and end times, possibly with "express" buses that have limited stops and additional routes that mimic some of the current school bus runs. As the county's density has increased, the public transportation hasn't kept up. In the long run, it is in the interests of the county to encourage working adults to use public transit, and if students learn to use public transit while in HS/MS, they are more likely to continue using it. Downcounty and along the 270 corridor (355, Great Seneca hwy, Midcounty hwy) from Rockville to Gaithersburg to Germantown to Clarksburg should all have a strong bus network that could serve to get MS and HS students to and from school. If the school buses were reserved for the less dense and more rural areas, you could at least have the HS start time go later to be the same as MS start (8:15a-3:00p). If enough students can take public transit, it might be possible to shift some elementary schools to the 8:15a start time too, and maybe get rid of the late ES tier.

I think that's the next most feasible step in this adjustment process.

This is probably the most reasonable solution/idea in this entire thread.

Not really. Just look at school boundaries. It’s totally impractical.

What makes it totally impractical? There are lots of high school students and even middle school students who could take public transit to/from school. In fact, there are currently lots of high school students and even middle school students who take public transit to/from school.

Most kids don't live within walking distance to public transportation and it would take multiple buses to get there. And, not all parents have cars. Those complain about their kids going early can drive their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - 7 pages of squabbling on this today, and very little actually thoughtful, informative, or productive. On the off-chance that could change ...

The limiting factor logistically for having the staggered start times are the number of buses required to transport everyone. That was the cost identified in the original study. One thing that could be advocated for is increased public transportation during HS/MS start and end times, possibly with "express" buses that have limited stops and additional routes that mimic some of the current school bus runs. As the county's density has increased, the public transportation hasn't kept up. In the long run, it is in the interests of the county to encourage working adults to use public transit, and if students learn to use public transit while in HS/MS, they are more likely to continue using it. Downcounty and along the 270 corridor (355, Great Seneca hwy, Midcounty hwy) from Rockville to Gaithersburg to Germantown to Clarksburg should all have a strong bus network that could serve to get MS and HS students to and from school. If the school buses were reserved for the less dense and more rural areas, you could at least have the HS start time go later to be the same as MS start (8:15a-3:00p). If enough students can take public transit, it might be possible to shift some elementary schools to the 8:15a start time too, and maybe get rid of the late ES tier.

I think that's the next most feasible step in this adjustment process.

This is probably the most reasonable solution/idea in this entire thread.

Not really. Just look at school boundaries. It’s totally impractical.

What makes it totally impractical? There are lots of high school students and even middle school students who could take public transit to/from school. In fact, there are currently lots of high school students and even middle school students who take public transit to/from school.

Most kids don't live within walking distance to public transportation and it would take multiple buses to get there. And, not all parents have cars. Those complain about their kids going early can drive their kids.

So what? Many kids do. The more kids can get themselves to school on public transportation (or walking, or biking) instead of school buses, the more flexibility MCPS has to adjust start times for everyone.

[Anonymous]

I don’t get it. I thought bell times shifted later years ago. I now have HS and MS kids and don’t remember what the times were pre-Covid. But I definitely think they’re too early now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - 7 pages of squabbling on this today, and very little actually thoughtful, informative, or productive. On the off-chance that could change ...

The limiting factor logistically for having the staggered start times are the number of buses required to transport everyone. That was the cost identified in the original study. One thing that could be advocated for is increased public transportation during HS/MS start and end times, possibly with "express" buses that have limited stops and additional routes that mimic some of the current school bus runs. As the county's density has increased, the public transportation hasn't kept up. In the long run, it is in the interests of the county to encourage working adults to use public transit, and if students learn to use public transit while in HS/MS, they are more likely to continue using it. Downcounty and along the 270 corridor (355, Great Seneca hwy, Midcounty hwy) from Rockville to Gaithersburg to Germantown to Clarksburg should all have a strong bus network that could serve to get MS and HS students to and from school. If the school buses were reserved for the less dense and more rural areas, you could at least have the HS start time go later to be the same as MS start (8:15a-3:00p). If enough students can take public transit, it might be possible to shift some elementary schools to the 8:15a start time too, and maybe get rid of the late ES tier.

I think that's the next most feasible step in this adjustment process.

This is probably the most reasonable solution/idea in this entire thread.

Not really. Just look at school boundaries. It’s totally impractical.

What makes it totally impractical? There are lots of high school students and even middle school students who could take public transit to/from school. In fact, there are currently lots of high school students and even middle school students who take public transit to/from school.

Most kids don't live within walking distance to public transportation and it would take multiple buses to get there. And, not all parents have cars. Those complain about their kids going early can drive their kids.

So what? Many kids do. The more kids can get themselves to school on public transportation (or walking, or biking) instead of school buses, the more flexibility MCPS has to adjust start times for everyone.

Again, just look a lt a single boundary of any school and imagine where the kids live and then look at bus routes.

The only way it works is “special” buses and congratulations, you have now turned a RideOn bus into an expensive school bus. Also, LOL at getting kids waking and biking. The elementary school in the densest and most urban location in the county buses all the kids from the nearby apartments from within the walk zone. The schools that have the most walking are the schools located in purely residential neighborhoods.

You don’t have kids in MCPS do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

I don’t know why the HS and ES times aren’t flipped. We do that in Loudoun County and it’s the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - 7 pages of squabbling on this today, and very little actually thoughtful, informative, or productive. On the off-chance that could change ...

The limiting factor logistically for having the staggered start times are the number of buses required to transport everyone. That was the cost identified in the original study. One thing that could be advocated for is increased public transportation during HS/MS start and end times, possibly with "express" buses that have limited stops and additional routes that mimic some of the current school bus runs. As the county's density has increased, the public transportation hasn't kept up. In the long run, it is in the interests of the county to encourage working adults to use public transit, and if students learn to use public transit while in HS/MS, they are more likely to continue using it. Downcounty and along the 270 corridor (355, Great Seneca hwy, Midcounty hwy) from Rockville to Gaithersburg to Germantown to Clarksburg should all have a strong bus network that could serve to get MS and HS students to and from school. If the school buses were reserved for the less dense and more rural areas, you could at least have the HS start time go later to be the same as MS start (8:15a-3:00p). If enough students can take public transit, it might be possible to shift some elementary schools to the 8:15a start time too, and maybe get rid of the late ES tier.

I think that's the next most feasible step in this adjustment process.

This is probably the most reasonable solution/idea in this entire thread.

Not really. Just look at school boundaries. It’s totally impractical.

What makes it totally impractical? There are lots of high school students and even middle school students who could take public transit to/from school. In fact, there are currently lots of high school students and even middle school students who take public transit to/from school.

Most kids don't live within walking distance to public transportation and it would take multiple buses to get there. And, not all parents have cars. Those complain about their kids going early can drive their kids.

So what? Many kids do. The more kids can get themselves to school on public transportation (or walking, or biking) instead of school buses, the more flexibility MCPS has to adjust start times for everyone.

Walking or biking isn't exactly safe when not all streets, like ours have sidewalks and you'd have to cross major roads and some kids are several miles away. Does your kid walk, bike or take public transportation to school? Here is an idea - tell your kid to go to bed earlier if they are tired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

I don’t know why the HS and ES times aren’t flipped. We do that in Loudoun County and it’s the best.

Because getting out at 3:50 with activities and homework is an issue for many kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably includes working parents of young children who’d rather not have to cover another hour of childcare in the afternoon. High school athletes who get home late enough as it is already. High school students with after school jobs. Is that enough imbeciles for you?

Yes! I agree with this middle school and high schoolers can stay home alone for a few hours. When elementary ends at 2:30 or 3pm, it just means working parents have to pay more for aftercare

But now they pay for “before care”. Drop off at 8:40 or 9 am for tier 1 and tier 2 elementary schools respectively isn’t necessarily working parent friendly. My DH and I start work by 8:30 am everyday and have to think we’re not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

I don’t know why the HS and ES times aren’t flipped. We do that in Loudoun County and it’s the best.

Because getting out at 3:50 with activities and homework is an issue for many kids.

And yet other school systems are able to achieve it. London County kids have after school activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

I was taught younger kids need more sleep. I would rather a high schooler start early than ES. My high school started at 8, but I think all the levels started around the same time.

Younger kids need more sleep and go to bed earlier. This is directly backwards to the known, proven teen healthy sleep patterns. Links to the relevant data on that have already been posted here.

The idea that high schoolers should have to be at school at 7:30AM every day because their parents feel entitled to use them as free babysitters is asinine.

What is entitled and asinine is assuming that families whose older lids are watching the younger have a true choice. For many of my students, it is helping keep the family afloat financially because aftercare is both expensive and in short supply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - 7 pages of squabbling on this today, and very little actually thoughtful, informative, or productive. On the off-chance that could change ...

The limiting factor logistically for having the staggered start times are the number of buses required to transport everyone. That was the cost identified in the original study. One thing that could be advocated for is increased public transportation during HS/MS start and end times, possibly with "express" buses that have limited stops and additional routes that mimic some of the current school bus runs. As the county's density has increased, the public transportation hasn't kept up. In the long run, it is in the interests of the county to encourage working adults to use public transit, and if students learn to use public transit while in HS/MS, they are more likely to continue using it. Downcounty and along the 270 corridor (355, Great Seneca hwy, Midcounty hwy) from Rockville to Gaithersburg to Germantown to Clarksburg should all have a strong bus network that could serve to get MS and HS students to and from school. If the school buses were reserved for the less dense and more rural areas, you could at least have the HS start time go later to be the same as MS start (8:15a-3:00p). If enough students can take public transit, it might be possible to shift some elementary schools to the 8:15a start time too, and maybe get rid of the late ES tier.

I think that's the next most feasible step in this adjustment process.

This is probably the most reasonable solution/idea in this entire thread.

Not really. Just look at school boundaries. It’s totally impractical.

What makes it totally impractical? There are lots of high school students and even middle school students who could take public transit to/from school. In fact, there are currently lots of high school students and even middle school students who take public transit to/from school.

Most kids don't live within walking distance to public transportation and it would take multiple buses to get there. And, not all parents have cars. Those complain about their kids going early can drive their kids.

So what? Many kids do. The more kids can get themselves to school on public transportation (or walking, or biking) instead of school buses, the more flexibility MCPS has to adjust start times for everyone.

Walking or biking isn't exactly safe when not all streets, like ours have sidewalks and you'd have to cross major roads and some kids are several miles away. Does your kid walk, bike or take public transportation to school? Here is an idea - tell your kid to go to bed earlier if they are tired.

And yet the fact is that many kids already do walk, bike, or take public transportation to school. And more would walk or bike, if it were safer. And then MCPS wouldn't be busing so many kids. And then MCPS would have more good options for changing the school start times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Again, just look a lt a single boundary of any school and imagine where the kids live and then look at bus routes.

The only way it works is “special” buses and congratulations, you have now turned a RideOn bus into an expensive school bus. Also, LOL at getting kids waking and biking. The elementary school in the densest and most urban location in the county buses all the kids from the nearby apartments from within the walk zone. The schools that have the most walking are the schools located in purely residential neighborhoods.

You don’t have kids in MCPS do you?

Kids take RideOn/Metrobus to and from school, right now. Even if you don't know any. Which means that it actually is possible for kids to take RideOn/Metrobus to and from school. My MCPS kid does not take public transportation to school because there's a school bus, but if there were no school bus, my kid would take public transportation to school.

Also, addresses that have bus service are, by definition, not in the walk zone - though they may be within the walk distance. When MCPS provides bus service to kids within the walk distance, that's called hazard busing, and safer streets are the solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously, ladies, enough already. The science is in:

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html

This staggering of start times is 100% bass-ackwards.

Board of Education Approves Later School Start Times
Level Time Length of Day
High School 7:45 a.m.–2:30 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Middle School 8:15 a.m.–3:00 p.m. 6 hours, 45 minutes
Elementary School Tier 1 9:00 a.m.–3:25 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes
Elementary School Tier 2 9:25 a.m.–3:50 p.m. 6 hours, 25 minutes

I don’t know why the HS and ES times aren’t flipped. We do that in Loudoun County and it’s the best.

Read here: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/info/pdf/Bell%20Times%20Analysis%20Addl%20Options%20Jan2015.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow - 7 pages of squabbling on this today, and very little actually thoughtful, informative, or productive. On the off-chance that could change ...

The limiting factor logistically for having the staggered start times are the number of buses required to transport everyone. That was the cost identified in the original study. One thing that could be advocated for is increased public transportation during HS/MS start and end times, possibly with "express" buses that have limited stops and additional routes that mimic some of the current school bus runs. As the county's density has increased, the public transportation hasn't kept up. In the long run, it is in the interests of the county to encourage working adults to use public transit, and if students learn to use public transit while in HS/MS, they are more likely to continue using it. Downcounty and along the 270 corridor (355, Great Seneca hwy, Midcounty hwy) from Rockville to Gaithersburg to Germantown to Clarksburg should all have a strong bus network that could serve to get MS and HS students to and from school. If the school buses were reserved for the less dense and more rural areas, you could at least have the HS start time go later to be the same as MS start (8:15a-3:00p). If enough students can take public transit, it might be possible to shift some elementary schools to the 8:15a start time too, and maybe get rid of the late ES tier.

I think that's the next most feasible step in this adjustment process.

And to emphasize this point, the county is soliciting feedback on reimagining Ride-on. Please comment!

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/DOT-Transit/reimagined/

"Your input is needed for the Ride On Reimagined Study

* a comprehensive forward-looking assessment of the bus network

* an in-depth look at Montgomery County’s entire existing and planned transit system

* an opportunity to guide the future direction of Ride On through data analysis and community engagement

* a primary goal of recommending system-wide changes that address the current and future needs of the community"

The funny thing is when I suggested using public transit for HS students at the beginning of this thread I was mostly joking, because I remember a major city I had lived in dioes this. It is a way to address the bus and driver shortage in the denser areas. Maybe they couldn't do it everywhere but maybe that's okay.