What Confederacy of Imbiciles Is Working To Prevent A Later Start Time For MCPS High Schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably includes working parents of young children who’d rather not have to cover another hour of childcare in the afternoon. High school athletes who get home late enough as it is already. High school students with after school jobs. Is that enough imbeciles for you?

Not to mention all of the families that rely on older siblings for childcare. That was a major factor in the 2015 report if I recall correctly. Between older siblings providing care, and kids who needed money from after-school jobs, the later start time was going to have a severe effect on the financial well-being of some of the most vulnerable families in the district.

As a parent of an ES student, I have a hard time following the childcare piece. Our bus does not come until 9am- what parent can wait until 9am to start their commute to work (in normal times)? Most families end up utilizing before AND after care. And are there really that many young kids with teenage siblings to watch them in the afternoon?

I thought it was really more about preserving time for after school jobs and sports. But the trade off is not enough sleep and lower school performance.

When DD was in elementary school, we used before care because we could afford it. The low income parents dropped their kids off an hour early, and the kids had to wait outside the school in all weather for the doors to open. Everyone doesn’t live like you do.

Some of these parents work in the service industry anyway so can take later shifts. So they don’t necessarily need morning coverage- not everyone works as early as you do.

You're sort of missing the point. The larger truth is that school hours are not as long as working hours for most people, and it is a mistake to assume that everyone's needs are identical. (The current argument in favor of letting HS students out early is predicated on the idea that everyone works business hours. PP was saying that many parents have problems with morning coverage, too.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Uh, no, most ES parents hate the current set up too. The average elementary student is up at first light. Those of us who work business hours need to be at our desks by 9 if not earlier. A 930 start time gets me to work closer to 10. We would LOVE to get our kids off to school earlier. It makes sense to send the kids who wake up early and need parental supervision getting out the door to school earlier than they go now. It makes sense to send the older kids, who wake up later and DON'T need help getting to school, later.

Yes, it does make sense to do those things. There's general agreement about that. There is not general agreement about HOW to fix the problem.

Oh ffs, stop being condescending and read the thread. there SHOULD be agreement about that, but there isn't, bizarrely enough. The above poster was replying to this gem: "It seems like the issue is that people with kids in HS not ES feel the current start time is inconvenient for them so everyone else needs to cater to their whims."

In real life, there's general agreement. There isn't general agreement about it on DCUM, but on DCUM there isn't general agreement about anything except that everybody else is doing it wrong and is a garbage parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Uh, no, most ES parents hate the current set up too. The average elementary student is up at first light. Those of us who work business hours need to be at our desks by 9 if not earlier. A 930 start time gets me to work closer to 10. We would LOVE to get our kids off to school earlier. It makes sense to send the kids who wake up early and need parental supervision getting out the door to school earlier than they go now. It makes sense to send the older kids, who wake up later and DON'T need help getting to school, later.

Yes, it does make sense to do those things. There's general agreement about that. There is not general agreement about HOW to fix the problem.

Baring a large investment in more buses, it seems like the two biggest issues are:

1) childcare- which is still an issue with the current model, it just gets masked and everyone ignores all the kids hanging around outside before school

2) sports

The first problem requires some $$, but isn’t insurmountable. The second would require more of a culture shift and in a way may be almost harder to overcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Uh, no, most ES parents hate the current set up too. The average elementary student is up at first light. Those of us who work business hours need to be at our desks by 9 if not earlier. A 930 start time gets me to work closer to 10. We would LOVE to get our kids off to school earlier. It makes sense to send the kids who wake up early and need parental supervision getting out the door to school earlier than they go now. It makes sense to send the older kids, who wake up later and DON'T need help getting to school, later.

Yes, it does make sense to do those things. There's general agreement about that. There is not general agreement about HOW to fix the problem.

Oh ffs, stop being condescending and read the thread. there SHOULD be agreement about that, but there isn't, bizarrely enough. The above poster was replying to this gem: "It seems like the issue is that people with kids in HS not ES feel the current start time is inconvenient for them so everyone else needs to cater to their whims."

In real life, there's general agreement. There isn't general agreement about it on DCUM, but on DCUM there isn't general agreement about anything except that everybody else is doing it wrong and is a garbage parent.

TRUTH!

[Anonymous]

I think it’s due to high school sports and other activities. I think it’s fine. My teens were in bed by 10 anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Uh, no, most ES parents hate the current set up too. The average elementary student is up at first light. Those of us who work business hours need to be at our desks by 9 if not earlier. A 930 start time gets me to work closer to 10. We would LOVE to get our kids off to school earlier. It makes sense to send the kids who wake up early and need parental supervision getting out the door to school earlier than they go now. It makes sense to send the older kids, who wake up later and DON'T need help getting to school, later.

Yes, it does make sense to do those things. There's general agreement about that. There is not general agreement about HOW to fix the problem.

Baring a large investment in more buses, it seems like the two biggest issues are:

1) childcare- which is still an issue with the current model, it just gets masked and everyone ignores all the kids hanging around outside before school

2) sports

The first problem requires some $$, but isn’t insurmountable. The second would require more of a culture shift and in a way may be almost harder to overcome.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s due to high school sports and other activities. I think it’s fine. My teens were in bed by 10 anyway.

Google "school start times" and "mental health" or "depression." The evidence on this is just overwhelming. I'm glad your teens were fine, but we are actually dealing with a crisis in teen mental health and kids' lives are at stake, so please show a bit of concern for others. Not everyone is wired the same way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably includes working parents of young children who’d rather not have to cover another hour of childcare in the afternoon. High school athletes who get home late enough as it is already. High school students with after school jobs. Is that enough imbeciles for you?

Not to mention all of the families that rely on older siblings for childcare. That was a major factor in the 2015 report if I recall correctly. Between older siblings providing care, and kids who needed money from after-school jobs, the later start time was going to have a severe effect on the financial well-being of some of the most vulnerable families in the district.

As a parent of an ES student, I have a hard time following the childcare piece. Our bus does not come until 9am- what parent can wait until 9am to start their commute to work (in normal times)? Most families end up utilizing before AND after care. And are there really that many young kids with teenage siblings to watch them in the afternoon?

I thought it was really more about preserving time for after school jobs and sports. But the trade off is not enough sleep and lower school performance.

When DD was in elementary school, we used before care because we could afford it. The low income parents dropped their kids off an hour early, and the kids had to wait outside the school in all weather for the doors to open. Everyone doesn’t live like you do.

PP here- yes I recognize I am privileged to afford before and after care. But I think you’re agreeing with that the current model is problematic for many parents. ES students should not have to sit outside in all weather like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s due to high school sports and other activities. I think it’s fine. My teens were in bed by 10 anyway.

Google "school start times" and "mental health" or "depression." The evidence on this is just overwhelming. I'm glad your teens were fine, but we are actually dealing with a crisis in teen mental health and kids' lives are at stake, so please show a bit of concern for others. Not everyone is wired the same way.

Also, there have been studies looking at academic performance in relation to start times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

I was taught younger kids need more sleep. I would rather a high schooler start early than ES. My high school started at 8, but I think all the levels started around the same time.

Younger kids need more sleep and go to bed earlier. This is directly backwards to the known, proven teen healthy sleep patterns. Links to the relevant data on that have already been posted here.

The idea that high schoolers should have to be at school at 7:30AM every day because their parents feel entitled to use them as free babysitters is asinine.

What is entitled and asinine is assuming that families whose older lids are watching the younger have a true choice. For many of my students, it is helping keep the family afloat financially because aftercare is both expensive and in short supply.

Yet another example of thinking that the health of ALL kids should suffer because no one can be bothered to think of other ways to address social problems. There is no dispute that later is better for all teenagers. It's one of the few things that is universally agreed upon.

+1. I have no doubt childcare is a big issue for many low income families-but not all of them have an older child to watch the younger ones in the afternoon, so there’s still a gap there too. If childcare was truly the limiting factor to changing start times, why not address that head on and come up with ways to provide/fund aftercare programs for these families.

It seems like the issue is that people with kids in HS not ES feel the current start time is inconvenient for them so everyone else needs to cater to their whims.

Uh, no, most ES parents hate the current set up too. The average elementary student is up at first light. Those of us who work business hours need to be at our desks by 9 if not earlier. A 930 start time gets me to work closer to 10. We would LOVE to get our kids off to school earlier. It makes sense to send the kids who wake up early and need parental supervision getting out the door to school earlier than they go now. It makes sense to send the older kids, who wake up later and DON'T need help getting to school, later.

+1. I can only hope that by the time my oldest starts HS that we will have evolved on this. May be wishful thinking but as other districts take the lead on this and make changes, MCPS will look more foolish for digging in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

I was taught younger kids need more sleep. I would rather a high schooler start early than ES. My high school started at 8, but I think all the levels started around the same time.

Younger kids need more sleep and go to bed earlier. This is directly backwards to the known, proven teen healthy sleep patterns. Links to the relevant data on that have already been posted here.

The idea that high schoolers should have to be at school at 7:30AM every day because their parents feel entitled to use them as free babysitters is asinine.

What is entitled and asinine is assuming that families whose older lids are watching the younger have a true choice. For many of my students, it is helping keep the family afloat financially because aftercare is both expensive and in short supply.

Yet another example of thinking that the health of ALL kids should suffer because no one can be bothered to think of other ways to address social problems. There is no dispute that later is better for all teenagers. It's one of the few things that is universally agreed upon.

+1. I have no doubt childcare is a big issue for many low income families-but not all of them have an older child to watch the younger ones in the afternoon, so there’s still a gap there too. If childcare was truly the limiting factor to changing start times, why not address that head on and come up with ways to provide/fund aftercare programs for these families.

It seems like the issue is that people with kids in HS not ES feel the current start time is inconvenient for them so everyone else needs to cater to their whims.

Actually, my child is in ES right now but the research in this is pretty clear. Later start times are better for HS students.

+1 How is this about whims? It's not inconvenient for HS students to start later, unless you need your teen to provide childcare. It is a matter of health.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s due to high school sports and other activities. I think it’s fine. My teens were in bed by 10 anyway.

Google "school start times" and "mental health" or "depression." The evidence on this is just overwhelming. I'm glad your teens were fine, but we are actually dealing with a crisis in teen mental health and kids' lives are at stake, so please show a bit of concern for others. Not everyone is wired the same way.

And no matter what they do it will effect a different group of kids. Can't you grasp this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

I was taught younger kids need more sleep. I would rather a high schooler start early than ES. My high school started at 8, but I think all the levels started around the same time.

Younger kids need more sleep and go to bed earlier. This is directly backwards to the known, proven teen healthy sleep patterns. Links to the relevant data on that have already been posted here.

The idea that high schoolers should have to be at school at 7:30AM every day because their parents feel entitled to use them as free babysitters is asinine.

What is entitled and asinine is assuming that families whose older lids are watching the younger have a true choice. For many of my students, it is helping keep the family afloat financially because aftercare is both expensive and in short supply.

Yet another example of thinking that the health of ALL kids should suffer because no one can be bothered to think of other ways to address social problems. There is no dispute that later is better for all teenagers. It's one of the few things that is universally agreed upon.

+1. I have no doubt childcare is a big issue for many low income families-but not all of them have an older child to watch the younger ones in the afternoon, so there’s still a gap there too. If childcare was truly the limiting factor to changing start times, why not address that head on and come up with ways to provide/fund aftercare programs for these families.

It seems like the issue is that people with kids in HS not ES feel the current start time is inconvenient for them so everyone else needs to cater to their whims.

Actually, my child is in ES right now but the research in this is pretty clear. Later start times are better for HS students.

+1 How is this about whims? It's not inconvenient for HS students to start later, unless you need your teen to provide childcare. It is a matter of health.

Seems more like it's a matter of convenience for the OP. I'm sure it would impact the health of younger children too who are even less able to cope with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s due to high school sports and other activities. I think it’s fine. My teens were in bed by 10 anyway.

Google "school start times" and "mental health" or "depression." The evidence on this is just overwhelming. I'm glad your teens were fine, but we are actually dealing with a crisis in teen mental health and kids' lives are at stake, so please show a bit of concern for others. Not everyone is wired the same way.

And no matter what they do it will effect a different group of kids. Can't you grasp this?

oh my god have you read the thread? facepalm

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, the science is pretty clear that sending High School students to school at 7:45 is damaging. At the bare minimum the start times should be reversed. HS students should start at 9, elementary schoolers at 7:45. As far as after school jobs and sports, I would think that education and student's mental health should be the priority here.

I was taught younger kids need more sleep. I would rather a high schooler start early than ES. My high school started at 8, but I think all the levels started around the same time.

Younger kids need more sleep and go to bed earlier. This is directly backwards to the known, proven teen healthy sleep patterns. Links to the relevant data on that have already been posted here.

The idea that high schoolers should have to be at school at 7:30AM every day because their parents feel entitled to use them as free babysitters is asinine.

What is entitled and asinine is assuming that families whose older lids are watching the younger have a true choice. For many of my students, it is helping keep the family afloat financially because aftercare is both expensive and in short supply.

Yet another example of thinking that the health of ALL kids should suffer because no one can be bothered to think of other ways to address social problems. There is no dispute that later is better for all teenagers. It's one of the few things that is universally agreed upon.

+1. I have no doubt childcare is a big issue for many low income families-but not all of them have an older child to watch the younger ones in the afternoon, so there’s still a gap there too. If childcare was truly the limiting factor to changing start times, why not address that head on and come up with ways to provide/fund aftercare programs for these families.

It seems like the issue is that people with kids in HS not ES feel the current start time is inconvenient for them so everyone else needs to cater to their whims.

Actually, my child is in ES right now but the research in this is pretty clear. Later start times are better for HS students.

+1 How is this about whims? It's not inconvenient for HS students to start later, unless you need your teen to provide childcare. It is a matter of health.

Seems more like it's a matter of convenience for the OP. I'm sure it would impact the health of younger children too who are even less able to cope with this.

How would starting earlier be bad for younger kids' health? No one who know anything about this issue asserts that.