Republican utopia - Texas!

[Anonymous]

Horrifying story about a Texas woman who died because of the dismal state of maternal health care there, including the strictures deterring doctors from saying what they think regarding whether a patient should continue to carry her potentially life-endandering pregnancy to term.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/01/15/abortion-high-risk-pregnancy-yeni-glick

What conservative lawmakers hailed as the saving of infant lives, medical professionals I interviewed in rural Texas saw as a beleaguering challenge. According to state data, even before S.B. 8 half the counties in Texas were unequipped to treat pregnant women, lacking a single specialist in women’s health, such as an ob-gyn or a certified midwife. Multiple doctors told me that the overturning of Roe v. Wade, in June of 2022, exacerbated the crisis, as practitioners retired early or moved to states where they’d have more liberty to make medical judgments. So who, exactly, was supposed to handle the extra deliveries in women’s-health deserts such as Caldwell County? What would become of women in remote locales who experienced a hemorrhage or a ruptured fallopian tube?

......
Although some women with the same conditions as Yeni—hypertension, diabetes, a history of pulmonary edema, severe obesity—end up safely delivering healthy babies, others become so unwell that a difficult question arises: Is this a pregnancy that the patient can safely continue? Some studies show that cardiovascular diseases account for more than a third of pregnancy-related deaths in the U.S. “When a pregnant patient comes to you with a history of pulmonary edema, the question is: What is the cause, and can it be managed or reversed?,” Uri Elkayam, the director of the maternal-cardiology program at the University of Southern California, told me. “Pregnancy increases blood volume, and with limited cardiac reserves the pressure from the heart may be reflected into the lungs, causing pulmonary edema and heart failure.” His rule of thumb is that, if a patient is fairly sick early on, “one needs to assume that as pregnancy progresses things only will get worse.” In those cases, he said, termination lowers the risk of death.

According to Yeni’s medical records, doctors didn’t raise the possibility of a therapeutic termination with her. Ascension Seton, a network of Catholic hospitals whose mission is “rooted in the loving ministry of Jesus,” is averse to abortions. But, as some medical professionals familiar with Yeni’s care told me, the hospitals can make an exception when a woman’s life is at risk. The field of obstetrics is replete with gray areas, and in the past a physician with a borderline case could direct the patient to another facility, with fewer restrictions on abortion. But that option effectively disappeared in the months before Yeni got pregnant.

When S.B. 8 banned abortions past the six-week limit, it included an exception in cases of “medical emergency.” At the same time, the law made it tricky for health-care workers to raise the emergency flag, by enabling citizens to initiate lawsuits against people who “aid or abet” banned abortions, incentivizing them with the possibility of a ten-thousand-dollar reward. A person involved with Yeni’s medical case told me, “One of the things that S.B. 8 does is undermine a sense of common mission and trust, even within a care-giving team—you know, who’s going to go behind your back and sue you because they watched you do your care?”

[Anonymous]

They got what they voted for. All these red states that thought banning abortion was a great idea now have fewer MDs to deliver babies. OB-GYNs are leaving these states over fear of prosecution. You get what you vote for.

[Anonymous]

OP - I think this sentence says it all...."Although some women with the same conditions as Yeni—hypertension, diabetes, a history of pulmonary edema, severe obesity—end up safely delivering healthy babies, others become so unwell that a difficult question arises."

So, abortion is the first option for at-risk pregnancies?

What if the woman doesn't WANT an abortion? At the end of the article is this:
"One of her closest friends, Dolores Favela, said, “She and Andrew were so young, and if given a choice they probably would have thought to themselves, We’ll have so much time together, we can have a child later on.” Leticia wasn’t as sure, recalling something Yeni said in passing after her improvement in the Austin I.C.U.: that if a doctor had to choose between saving her or saving Selene, her daughter should come first. Leticia had responded, half in jest, “And who exactly is going to take care of Selene?” “Well, you, Mami!” Yeni said. “Me?” Leticia teased. “If you leave, you better take Selene with you!” Laughing, the women laid the subject to rest, never to discuss it again."

There were other details that you omitted as well.... such as:
Glick was given medication to help with her high blood pressure, though she allegedly didn’t take it regularly.
After returning home from the hospital, she chose to go to work instead of bed rest.

Both you, OP, and the author of this piece seem to believe that a woman who is having an at-risk pregnancy should abort the fetus instead of any alternative.
And, another thing to note.... this woman died 2 weeks after Roe v Wade was overturned which was June 24, 2022.
Texas abotion law did not go into effect until Aug. 25, 2022 - which is after her death.

[Anonymous]

And, another thing to note.... this woman died 2 weeks after Roe v Wade was overturned which was June 24, 2022.
Texas abotion law did not go into effect until Aug. 25, 2022 - which is after her death.

Texas passed an anti-abortion law that SCOTUS allowed to take effect almost a year before Roe was overturned.

[Anonymous]

Although some women with the same conditions as Yeni—hypertension, diabetes, a history of pulmonary edema, severe obesity—

This woman and her baby died from medical complications from obesity. Morbid obesity.

Cause of death: Hypertensive cardiovascular disease associated with morbid obesity

other contributing factors
Pregnancy

She wanted to be pregnant and wanted her baby.

Texas is a huge state. Specialized medical doctors are not available in small towns in most states.

I don’t know why the mother wasn’t on medicaid to receive medical benefits. She qualified for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And, another thing to note.... this woman died 2 weeks after Roe v Wade was overturned which was June 24, 2022.
Texas abotion law did not go into effect until Aug. 25, 2022 - which is after her death.

Texas passed an anti-abortion law that SCOTUS allowed to take effect almost a year before Roe was overturned.

This doesn’t apply to this woman’s death. She didn’t want to terminate her pregnancy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They got what they voted for. All these red states that thought banning abortion was a great idea now have fewer MDs to deliver babies. OB-GYNs are leaving these states over fear of prosecution. You get what you vote for.

You think this woman deserved to die?

She didn’t want a freaking abortion. She didn’t want to kill her baby girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I think this sentence says it all...."Although some women with the same conditions as Yeni—hypertension, diabetes, a history of pulmonary edema, severe obesity—end up safely delivering healthy babies, others become so unwell that a difficult question arises."

So, abortion is the first option for at-risk pregnancies?

What if the woman doesn't WANT an abortion? At the end of the article is this:
"One of her closest friends, Dolores Favela, said, “She and Andrew were so young, and if given a choice they probably would have thought to themselves, We’ll have so much time together, we can have a child later on.” Leticia wasn’t as sure, recalling something Yeni said in passing after her improvement in the Austin I.C.U.: that if a doctor had to choose between saving her or saving Selene, her daughter should come first. Leticia had responded, half in jest, “And who exactly is going to take care of Selene?” “Well, you, Mami!” Yeni said. “Me?” Leticia teased. “If you leave, you better take Selene with you!” Laughing, the women laid the subject to rest, never to discuss it again."

There were other details that you omitted as well.... such as:
Glick was given medication to help with her high blood pressure, though she allegedly didn’t take it regularly.
After returning home from the hospital, she chose to go to work instead of bed rest.

Both you, OP, and the author of this piece seem to believe that a woman who is having an at-risk pregnancy should abort the fetus instead of any alternative.
And, another thing to note.... this woman died 2 weeks after Roe v Wade was overturned which was June 24, 2022.
Texas abotion law did not go into effect until Aug. 25, 2022 - which is after her death.

You don't do nuance, do you?

A woman who receives all the information about the real threat to her health and the choices she can make about it including terminating a pregnancy, who then decides that she will take the risk and continues -- that is her right to choose. It's not a choice a lot of women would make, but if that is her choice and she dies, well that is very sad but it's not the fault of laws, a government, and other people.

A woman who does NOT receive all the information about ALL the possible ways to address a potentially life-threatening pregnancy and doesn't have the right to choose one of those possible treatments even if she knows about it and then dies -- that is the opposite of freedom. She had no choice in the matter. Here, let me quote from the article because you seemed to have missed this:

Medical records do not suggest any discussion of the fact that an abortion could have alleviated the additional strain that the pregnancy placed on her heart.

This woman lived in Texas where laws restricted abortions after 6 weeks before she became pregnant. Did you miss that part? When she first started having problems with the pregnancy it was already too late for her to get an abortion in Texas. Here, let me re-quote it for you since you bypassed it the first time:

the enactment, in 2021, of a state law known as S.B. 8, which banned the procedure after the sixth week of pregnancy in nearly all cases.

Did you miss the part that she sometimes skipped her medication because the effects made her unable to work and she couldn't afford not to work? Or that she couldn't afford the medicine? Here, let me quote it because you obviously skipped over it:

Mueller could not convince Yeni, now ten weeks pregnant, to be hospitalized, but she did her best to warn her patient about the dangers of skipping doses of blood-pressure medication, which Yeni sometimes did because the drugs could make her nauseated or sleepy, inhibiting her ability to do her job.....“I just dropped 500 plus my car payment to get it out of the way so I’m left with 200 that’s not even enough to cover cost and I’m just done I don’t know what to do. They won’t help me unless I get insurance but I can’t get insurance"...... “Unable to get lantus rx bc was $400,” Mueller wrote, of Yeni’s prescription for long-acting insulin.”

She "chose" to go to work because she COULD NOT AFFORD NOT TO WORK. Here, you missed this:

When Yeni returned to Luling, exhausted, her family wondered if she would have been kept in the hospital longer had she been insured. (Some ob-gyns I spoke with also raised this question.) Leticia urged her to quit her job and stay home until Selene was born. But Yeni needed the money. How else would Selene’s needs be covered?

WTH, do you not understand poverty? Where is your solution to giving all pregnant women paid sick leave so that if they can't work but can't afford not to work they can stay at home on bedrest on their physcian's advice? Where is your solution for universal health insurance so that patients can stay in the hospital when they need to and can afford their medications?

People like you give your anti-abortion side its horrible reputation. This is why those of us who are adamantly for safe and legal rights to abortion think your side is full of utter hypocrites. You are not "pro-life." You don't give 2 shts about this woman's life, the life of her family the actual day-in, day-out quality of their lives. All you want to do is wash your hands of the stain of her death and say, not my problem, she chose to be poor, she chose not to take her medicine, she would have chosen to die for the fetus even though she didn't get advised early on about the choices someone in her situation should think about.

Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They got what they voted for. All these red states that thought banning abortion was a great idea now have fewer MDs to deliver babies. OB-GYNs are leaving these states over fear of prosecution. You get what you vote for.

You think this woman deserved to die?

She didn’t want a freaking abortion. She didn’t want to kill her baby girl.

She wasn't even counseled about a therapeutic abortion because of Texas's draconian laws.

She wasn't able to afford insurance or the hospital because Republicans are so adamantly against universal health insurance.

She wasn't able to afford staying home from work on bedrest because Republicans are so adamantly against mandatory paid sick leave.

She didn't have nearby access to excellent health care options because rural Texas like in many red states is a health care desert especially for maternity care. OB/GYNs don't want to work in a state like that.

[Anonymous]

Someone should’ve helped her get out of the state, up to Colorado or someplace else, to get her abortion. This is a failure on all our parts. We need to be helping women get out of places like this, not laughing at them because they died being forced to carry a pregnancy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And, another thing to note.... this woman died 2 weeks after Roe v Wade was overturned which was June 24, 2022.
Texas abotion law did not go into effect until Aug. 25, 2022 - which is after her death.

Texas passed an anti-abortion law that SCOTUS allowed to take effect almost a year before Roe was overturned.

This doesn’t apply to this woman’s death. She didn’t want to terminate her pregnancy.

She was never counseled about it or given the option early on in her pregnancy, so how do you know? And had she been in a state with less draconian laws and in a country with better health coverage and paid sick leave for all, for all she could have been kept in the hospital and offered an emergency delivery after viability, which could have saved both her and the fetus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone should’ve helped her get out of the state, up to Colorado or someplace else, to get her abortion. This is a failure on all our parts. We need to be helping women get out of places like this, not laughing at them because they died being forced to carry a pregnancy

We aren't laughing at them. This is what you get when the majority of your state votes in conservative anti woman laws. She is sadly just the first of many.

And the same state will prosecute you if you help her. It's about hurting women and making them subservient.

[Anonymous]

I hear a lot of excuses from forced birthers, but not a lot of self awareness.

[Anonymous]

You people are certifiable. This poor woman was morbidly obese and had been diagnosed with diabetes before she was 30 years old. She wanted her baby. She did not want an abortion. She told her own mother that if something went wrong with her pregnancy, to save the life of her baby before her life.

She did what every woman here whines about 24/7/365: made her own reproductive choices.

The part I really don’t understand is that she definitely was able to qualify for medicaid, and should have received medicaid to pay for her doctor and hospital bills. It’s odd that when she was hospitalized a social worker didn’t visit her in the hospital to help her complete an application. It’s really weird one of her family members or her HUSBAND didn’t help her get the paperwork done so she could get health insurance. She seemed like a loving, caring woman who would go out of her way to help loved ones, but when she was pregnant, they couldn’t drive her to the social services office to speak with a customer service representative and get her overwhelming need for healthcare insurance taken care of. Her husband or mom should have done that immediately.

This is a sad story and I am sorry for this woman and her baby girl. Her family sucks because she was sick, and needed someone to help her get her health insurance and nobody did. She was deathly ill working a job, where the hell was everyone who loved her then? She needed their support then. They could have financially helped her and her obviously deadbeat husband while she was pregnant and in and out of the hospital. At the very least helped her coordinate her medicaid application. It can be backdated from the day you apply. All she had to do was apply; when she got approved, Medicaid would have paid her accumulated medical bills. Her family failed her.

[Anonymous]

We won’t really know what her choice was, because she didn’t have one.
I remember reading an article about a Covid denier who rode his bike to Sturgis, before there was an available vaccine.
He felt super good about his choice on his ride out to the rally. He literally said if he died, well so be it, he was doing what he loved.
Cut to him in the ICU a month later. He didn’t want to die was regretting his decision.
But at least he had a choice.
Was this woman made aware of the risks and consequences? I’m skeptical.
Keeping women in the dark about their circumstances and the best medical advice isn’t pro life.