Seeking clarity about Hamas

[Anonymous]

I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

[Anonymous]

I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

The government of Israel under Bibi wanted Hamas over any moderate government in Gaza. It is much easier to continue settlements and deny Palestinians right to return if you can point to Hamas as the government of Gaza and call them terrorists. The official Israel government stance was to undermine all moderate Palestinians or kill them and support Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

The government of Israel under Bibi wanted Hamas over any moderate government in Gaza. It is much easier to continue settlements and deny Palestinians right to return if you can point to Hamas as the government of Gaza and call them terrorists. The official Israel government stance was to undermine all moderate Palestinians or kill them and support Hamas.

Call them terrorists? They are terrorists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

And that was back in 2006. Hamas has not had any elections since. I think there was a poll that showed something like 76% of Palestinians are not happy with how Hamas is running things.

[Anonymous]

The majority of Palestinians in Gaza were either not yet born, or were children (and thus unable to vote), way back when Hamas received whatever percentage of the vote they received (previous posted said 45% which sounds about right).

It's pretty easy to conclude that Hamas does not "represent" anyone but themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

There hasn't been any sort of vote since 2005, so there is no concept of what constitutes "a majority" - but what is absolutely true is that the average Palestianian is not part of Hamas the political and military organization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

The government of Israel under Bibi wanted Hamas over any moderate government in Gaza. It is much easier to continue settlements and deny Palestinians right to return if you can point to Hamas as the government of Gaza and call them terrorists. The official Israel government stance was to undermine all moderate Palestinians or kill them and support Hamas.

Call them terrorists? They are terrorists.

If they are the elected and recognized government they are not terrorists. They are a state attacking another state. So it is not terrorism but war crimes. Like Israel targeting and bombing civilians to force them out of Gaza is a war crime and not terrorism.

[jsteele]

It's a complicated question. Hamas has many aspects. It began as a social and charitable organization. It later added military and political components. Individuals may support some of what Hamas does, without supporting everything. Hamas ran for seats in the Parliament and won support in Gaza. It did not run for nor was elected to administer Gaza. It took over control of Gaza after a battle with the Palestinian Authority and kicking them out.

The vote that is so often touted with nearly 20 years ago. Over half of Gazans weren't even born then. Nobody voted for Hamas to control Gaza, but these folks have never voted at all.

Once Hamas took control, dissent was not tolerated. There have been no opportunities for Gazans to express a lack of support. Moreover, like most authoritative governments, Hamas has been able to use the tools of government, influence of not control of media, and other tools at its disposal to generate a certain amount of support. Also, Israel's policies have often had the effect of pushing Gazans to rally to Hamas as people often do when faced with external aggression.

One thing that is clear is that the vast majority of Gazans have had no input into Hamas' actions. The average Gazan was not consulted on whether or not to attack Israel. As a matter of accuracy, we should distinguish between the Gazan people and the Hamas organization.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

They were voted into power in 2006. And then Hamas got rid of all elections and murdered anyone who vocally opposed them. That was 17 years ago. It's difficult to call Hamas a legitimate entity "voted in" by the Palestinian people who are alive today. Remember, half of Gaza are kids under the age of 20 who didn't vote in 2006.

Hamas has a stranglehold on Gaza. Hamas is also infiltrated with foreign terrorists operating in Gaza. Again this question of "legitimacy" of power is a bit dumb. Hamas is akin to a terrorist mafia in Gaza - they control where people travel, live, etc. Without the support of Iran or Russia, Hamas would be much weaker.

"Palestinians" are composed of people of various ethnicities, tribes, and clans from all over the Middle East. Many of the fishermen in Gaza are from a tribe that originated in Saudi Arabia, moved to Palestine a few hundred years ago, and have traditionally supported Fatah/are anti-Hamas. I wouldn't blame that clan for Hamas. Now multiply that by lots and lots of different ethnic groups that live in Gaza. Certainly some are vocally supportive of Hamas, but many just keep their head down and try to not attract attention due to fear.

There are ancient groups of Christians in Gaza - are they responsible for Hamas? Not likely. They've often suffered brutally under Hamas.

So yeah, it's very complicated. But it's also why I support Israel absolutely destroying Hamas since that group really has no legitimate basis for power today (other than brutality) and is overrun with foreign Islamic terrorists.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

And that was back in 2006. Hamas has not had any elections since. I think there was a poll that showed something like 76% of Palestinians are not happy with how Hamas is running things.

Once you elect terrorists or fascists or any other group that rules by ruthless violence and intimidation take power, they won’t give up power and will manufacture conflicts and crises to incite fear and prejudice among the citizens. Once Hamas got control of Gaza the current situation was inevitable. This is what they wanted, their strategy is to periodically generate mass deaths of innocent civilians on both sides. They won’t negotiate peace with Israel and they won’t let anyone else negotiate on behalf of Gazans. Hamas exists to create chaos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

The government of Israel under Bibi wanted Hamas over any moderate government in Gaza. It is much easier to continue settlements and deny Palestinians right to return if you can point to Hamas as the government of Gaza and call them terrorists. The official Israel government stance was to undermine all moderate Palestinians or kill them and support Hamas.

Call them terrorists? They are terrorists.

If they are the elected and recognized government they are not terrorists. They are a state attacking another state. So it is not terrorism but war crimes. Like Israel targeting and bombing civilians to force them out of Gaza is a war crime and not terrorism.

DP
If you are targeting civilians on
Purpose that makes you one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

17 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really need some clarity on why we’re supposed to feel like Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people. And I mean that sincerely— like, I understand that Donald trump did not represent all/most American people. He won an election without having majority support. So is that what we’re saying? That Hamas just grabbed power but is no reflection of the majority?

Are you trying to quote trump by not directly quoting him saying that there are good people on both sides?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

17 years ago.

After three weeks of the attack, 80% of Palestinians responded that they would vote for Hamas again.