Government Shutdown - Sep 2025 Thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people are on the ACA? 8 percent. A small minority. How many people are Trans? A small minority. How many people are immigrants? A small minority. Need college loan relief? A small minority.

Trump has tricked the Democrats into take hardline positions on issues of concern to very few people.

About a quarter of the US are immigrants or children of immigrants. It's certainly a much bigger population than the millionaires and LGBT-haters that the Republicans target.

But the vast majority of legal immigrants hate the government to let in illegal immigrants. Just like law-abiding people hate criminals.

Why are you speaking for me?

I support legal paths to naturalization for hardworking, honest people, if they've been living here for ages and have a record of paying their taxes and not getting into trouble. They have brought more wealth to the US than they've cost the taxpayer. They represent the IMMENSE majority of immigrants who don't have 100% proper documentation.

However I fully support a border wall and strict immigration enforcement at all the borders, because we want to avoid what was happening for decades: allowing desperate people to cross without detection, build happy, productive lives, lulled into security, and then being cruel monsters by pulling the rug from under them and throwing them out in shockingly inhumane circumstances: separating families, leaving dependents in the lurch, forcing people like cattle into cells with no beds, no toilets or medical care, and dropping off human beings like so much garbage into war-torn countries where they don't speak the language. That makes Americans the bad guys.

If Americans are humane, they need to close the border to new illegal crossing attempts; police all the *recent* visa overstays much better than they're currently doing; throw out violent criminals who are not American; but they also need to treat the long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants they already have, and Dreamers, with the respect they deserve, and offer them American citizenship for their years of living here, contributing to American wealth.

Then people will continue to try to cross the border illegally because they hope they can become what you labeled “long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants, and Dreamers”. And then get immigration parole. Of course some of them are criminals. But the most important thing here is: this way, you will never stop illegal immigrants, you are encouraging them.

Part of the problem is that neither side wants to address that. Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are too important to the economy-- particularly to the businesses that exploit cheap labor.

The Republicans don't want to stop illegal immigration. If they did, they'd go after employers. Instead they just want to force them into second-tier status, living without legal protections so that employers can treat them horribly. Going after the individuals is part of how you keep them subjugated and plays well to their base who don't understand what is really going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people are on the ACA? 8 percent. A small minority. How many people are Trans? A small minority. How many people are immigrants? A small minority. Need college loan relief? A small minority.

Trump has tricked the Democrats into take hardline positions on issues of concern to very few people.

About a quarter of the US are immigrants or children of immigrants. It's certainly a much bigger population than the millionaires and LGBT-haters that the Republicans target.

But the vast majority of legal immigrants hate the government to let in illegal immigrants. Just like law-abiding people hate criminals.

Why are you speaking for me?

I support legal paths to naturalization for hardworking, honest people, if they've been living here for ages and have a record of paying their taxes and not getting into trouble. They have brought more wealth to the US than they've cost the taxpayer. They represent the IMMENSE majority of immigrants who don't have 100% proper documentation.

However I fully support a border wall and strict immigration enforcement at all the borders, because we want to avoid what was happening for decades: allowing desperate people to cross without detection, build happy, productive lives, lulled into security, and then being cruel monsters by pulling the rug from under them and throwing them out in shockingly inhumane circumstances: separating families, leaving dependents in the lurch, forcing people like cattle into cells with no beds, no toilets or medical care, and dropping off human beings like so much garbage into war-torn countries where they don't speak the language. That makes Americans the bad guys.

If Americans are humane, they need to close the border to new illegal crossing attempts; police all the *recent* visa overstays much better than they're currently doing; throw out violent criminals who are not American; but they also need to treat the long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants they already have, and Dreamers, with the respect they deserve, and offer them American citizenship for their years of living here, contributing to American wealth.

Then people will continue to try to cross the border illegally because they hope they can become what you labeled “long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants, and Dreamers”. And then get immigration parole. Of course some of them are criminals. But the most important thing here is: this way, you will never stop illegal immigrants, you are encouraging them.

Part of the problem is that neither side wants to address that. Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are too important to the economy-- particularly to the businesses that exploit cheap labor.

The Republicans don't want to stop illegal immigration. If they did, they'd go after employers. Instead they just want to force them into second-tier status, living without legal protections so that employers can treat them horribly. Going after the individuals is part of how you keep them subjugated and plays well to their base who don't understand what is really going on.

First, please do not mix legal immigrants with illegal immigrants. It is unfair to law-abiding legal immigrants who enter the country legally.

Second, I agree with you that the government should go after employers who knowingly hired illegal immigrants. But those employers are being charged if there are evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people are on the ACA? 8 percent. A small minority. How many people are Trans? A small minority. How many people are immigrants? A small minority. Need college loan relief? A small minority.

Trump has tricked the Democrats into take hardline positions on issues of concern to very few people.

About a quarter of the US are immigrants or children of immigrants. It's certainly a much bigger population than the millionaires and LGBT-haters that the Republicans target.

But the vast majority of legal immigrants hate the government to let in illegal immigrants. Just like law-abiding people hate criminals.

Why are you speaking for me?

I support legal paths to naturalization for hardworking, honest people, if they've been living here for ages and have a record of paying their taxes and not getting into trouble. They have brought more wealth to the US than they've cost the taxpayer. They represent the IMMENSE majority of immigrants who don't have 100% proper documentation.

However I fully support a border wall and strict immigration enforcement at all the borders, because we want to avoid what was happening for decades: allowing desperate people to cross without detection, build happy, productive lives, lulled into security, and then being cruel monsters by pulling the rug from under them and throwing them out in shockingly inhumane circumstances: separating families, leaving dependents in the lurch, forcing people like cattle into cells with no beds, no toilets or medical care, and dropping off human beings like so much garbage into war-torn countries where they don't speak the language. That makes Americans the bad guys.

If Americans are humane, they need to close the border to new illegal crossing attempts; police all the *recent* visa overstays much better than they're currently doing; throw out violent criminals who are not American; but they also need to treat the long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants they already have, and Dreamers, with the respect they deserve, and offer them American citizenship for their years of living here, contributing to American wealth.

Then people will continue to try to cross the border illegally because they hope they can become what you labeled “long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants, and Dreamers”. And then get immigration parole. Of course some of them are criminals. But the most important thing here is: this way, you will never stop illegal immigrants, you are encouraging them.

Part of the problem is that neither side wants to address that. Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are too important to the economy-- particularly to the businesses that exploit cheap labor.

The Republicans don't want to stop illegal immigration. If they did, they'd go after employers. Instead they just want to force them into second-tier status, living without legal protections so that employers can treat them horribly. Going after the individuals is part of how you keep them subjugated and plays well to their base who don't understand what is really going on.

First, please do not mix legal immigrants with illegal immigrants. It is unfair to law-abiding legal immigrants who enter the country legally.

Second, I agree with you that the government should go after employers who knowingly hired illegal immigrants. But those employers are being charged if there are evidence.

You're kidding. Enforcement is minimal, even with this administration, and even when they're caught, they're usually let off entirely or receive a fine that is less than the money they saved through exploitation.

Things like the wall are ridiculous and expensive distractions. Holding employers accountable for verifying status would go much farther if curbing illegal immigration was the goal. You could get some small improvements beyond that by adding more checks on sending money out of the country, including on cryptocurrency exchanges. But of course they're not going to do anything to make things more difficult for the cryptocurrency grifters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people are on the ACA? 8 percent. A small minority. How many people are Trans? A small minority. How many people are immigrants? A small minority. Need college loan relief? A small minority.

Trump has tricked the Democrats into take hardline positions on issues of concern to very few people.

About a quarter of the US are immigrants or children of immigrants. It's certainly a much bigger population than the millionaires and LGBT-haters that the Republicans target.

But the vast majority of legal immigrants hate the government to let in illegal immigrants. Just like law-abiding people hate criminals.

Why are you speaking for me?

I support legal paths to naturalization for hardworking, honest people, if they've been living here for ages and have a record of paying their taxes and not getting into trouble. They have brought more wealth to the US than they've cost the taxpayer. They represent the IMMENSE majority of immigrants who don't have 100% proper documentation.

However I fully support a border wall and strict immigration enforcement at all the borders, because we want to avoid what was happening for decades: allowing desperate people to cross without detection, build happy, productive lives, lulled into security, and then being cruel monsters by pulling the rug from under them and throwing them out in shockingly inhumane circumstances: separating families, leaving dependents in the lurch, forcing people like cattle into cells with no beds, no toilets or medical care, and dropping off human beings like so much garbage into war-torn countries where they don't speak the language. That makes Americans the bad guys.

If Americans are humane, they need to close the border to new illegal crossing attempts; police all the *recent* visa overstays much better than they're currently doing; throw out violent criminals who are not American; but they also need to treat the long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants they already have, and Dreamers, with the respect they deserve, and offer them American citizenship for their years of living here, contributing to American wealth.

Then people will continue to try to cross the border illegally because they hope they can become what you labeled “long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants, and Dreamers”. And then get immigration parole. Of course some of them are criminals. But the most important thing here is: this way, you will never stop illegal immigrants, you are encouraging them.

PP you replied to. I hear you, and I agree with you but only up to a point. America's borders are much more easily controlled than Europe's, for instance. I am a French citizen. There are small boats every day that cross the Mediterranean and the Channel, and they are VERY hard to detect. The borders between EU nations are porous by design, to allow EU citizens some mobility to live and work. It's an immigration nightmare. The US has the money to build actual walls on its southern border (I know it costs billions and some areas are are environmental protection or are underwater) and police them. They can do this, if they really want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people are on the ACA? 8 percent. A small minority. How many people are Trans? A small minority. How many people are immigrants? A small minority. Need college loan relief? A small minority.

Trump has tricked the Democrats into take hardline positions on issues of concern to very few people.

About a quarter of the US are immigrants or children of immigrants. It's certainly a much bigger population than the millionaires and LGBT-haters that the Republicans target.

But the vast majority of legal immigrants hate the government to let in illegal immigrants. Just like law-abiding people hate criminals.

Why are you speaking for me?

I support legal paths to naturalization for hardworking, honest people, if they've been living here for ages and have a record of paying their taxes and not getting into trouble. They have brought more wealth to the US than they've cost the taxpayer. They represent the IMMENSE majority of immigrants who don't have 100% proper documentation.

However I fully support a border wall and strict immigration enforcement at all the borders, because we want to avoid what was happening for decades: allowing desperate people to cross without detection, build happy, productive lives, lulled into security, and then being cruel monsters by pulling the rug from under them and throwing them out in shockingly inhumane circumstances: separating families, leaving dependents in the lurch, forcing people like cattle into cells with no beds, no toilets or medical care, and dropping off human beings like so much garbage into war-torn countries where they don't speak the language. That makes Americans the bad guys.

If Americans are humane, they need to close the border to new illegal crossing attempts; police all the *recent* visa overstays much better than they're currently doing; throw out violent criminals who are not American; but they also need to treat the long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants they already have, and Dreamers, with the respect they deserve, and offer them American citizenship for their years of living here, contributing to American wealth.

Then people will continue to try to cross the border illegally because they hope they can become what you labeled “long-term peaceful improperly documented immigrants, and Dreamers”. And then get immigration parole. Of course some of them are criminals. But the most important thing here is: this way, you will never stop illegal immigrants, you are encouraging them.

PP you replied to. I hear you, and I agree with you but only up to a point. America's borders are much more easily controlled than Europe's, for instance. I am a French citizen. There are small boats every day that cross the Mediterranean and the Channel, and they are VERY hard to detect. The borders between EU nations are porous by design, to allow EU citizens some mobility to live and work. It's an immigration nightmare. The US has the money to build actual walls on its southern border (I know it costs billions and some areas are are environmental protection or are underwater) and police them. They can do this, if they really want to.

Me again. I think my overall point is that treating humans with respect and basic decency is expensive, but worth it in the end.

Most of the time, it costs less to turn a blind eye to one' own immigration laws, than it is to enforce them in a humane way. Wealthy nations benefit economically from immigration. They don't benefit from spending massive sums to throw them all out. It's only when recession threatens, and horrible people whip up racism and xenophobia with lies that immigrants are a burden on the nation, that citizens' tolerance to cruelty increase to monstrous levels, and we get the mass murders of previous or current wars, and the heartbreaking mistreatment of the world's most vulnerable populations, migrants and immigrants.

[Anonymous]

OP here - can I request this thread be locked? It'd devolved into political discussion, which was the initial purpose of the thread (i.e. sharing shutdown gossip).