Woodward HS boundary study - BCC, Blair, Einstein, WJ, Kennedy, Northwood, Wheaton, Whitman impacts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extending Northwood's use of the holding school for three years is really a terrible thing. The community wanted a holding school in the DCC but MCPS forced Woodward, which families were at least ok with because it would be new.

But how long are the kids not going to have athletic facilities or performing arts spaces...for a school that has a performing arts academy?

Plus Northwood is one of the poorer schools and transportation is an issue. They are flat out going to be eliminating many parents from being able to engage at all with their child's school for up to 75% of their high school career.

What other options were there that were less bad than Woodward?

There was an option discussed of an urban campus in DTSS or utilizing space on the Adventist campus in TkPk. Both would have required MCPS to spend more money, though, so Woodward was the best option.

A lot more money, I'm guessing.

Yes.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/BAEVW7736805/$file/Northwood%20HS%20Holding%20Ctr%20Eval%20MGT%20Consulting%20Grp%20190314%20PPT.pdf

?

It appears the costs were fractional of that required to build Woodward. There was also a failure of vision.

Why didn't they sue to void the ridiculous contract that rules the old Montgomery Hills JHS property and combine that with the Woodlin property (which ended up being demolished anyway) to make a HS-sized holding school, needing, then, only to find space for an ES? How about refurbish the old Blair as a holding school and find smaller spaces for SSIMS and SCES? Perhaps the complete old Parkside property, asking the private-use Acorn Hill Waldorf to move? Perhaps one of the other options rejected for a HS but suitable for a MS? Perhaps one of the other options for an area elementary school rejected a decade ago over vocal objection from community members participating in the review because MCPS presented jaded views of the options and wouldn't evaluate independent ideas? Too many sacred cows and not enough dedication to the area, in comparison to that given others (though not exactly great, there, either).

Sure, they don't want to spend $. But their mandate should be to provide reasonably equivalent educational services, including facilities, to each community in the county, not to provide similar funding to each. The "it's their turn" approach only works when the turns result in that equivalence and are jiggered to address, for the most part, whatever facilities are most presently at a deficit in relation to others -- not aimed simply to spread facility improvement activity across the county. Unfortunately, MCPS hasn't lived up to that.

They were already going to build Woodward regardless, as a new high school. The idea of using it as a holding school was not the original purpose. These costs would have been in addition to the Woodward costs, not instead of.

But I agree with your other suggestions that should have been considered.

They didn't move forward to approve Woodward until they had dispensed with the idea of a HS serving the lower DCC area, then justifying Woodward with the idea that it amd the Northwood expansion would do the job.

The language they used was nebulous, failing to provide any of the specifics that they floated as ideas offline to ensure support. Totally unsurprising that they'd been walking back the commitment bit by bit ever since, but I doubt they will be able to dispense with it entirely. Then again, if past behaviors tell us anything...

It would have been nice if they added a new DCC school but they had this land and property. They need to redraw all the lines but a DCC school makes no sense.

Um, it makes sense to place services where they are needed.

Then they need to add another school DCC not in Bethesda/Rockville for DCC kids.

There's a shortage of affordable real estate down county. Woodward works - barely - but it's small.

Housing is more affordable DCC. Woodward is no where near DCC. They need another hs dcc but that’s not happening. Multiple other schools also need replaced.

Where is the 30 to 40 acres an MCPS HS needs?

MCPS says minimum preferred site size of 35 acres. That's for their current school design, which is based on a site size of 35 acres. It's obviously possible to put a school on a smaller site (see BCC), but they would have to use a different school design. I don't know how much of their school design is based on "This is how we do it because this is how we do it," and how much is based on state requirements.

This big issue is that structured parking gets really expensive really quickly, and is really easy for students to misbehave in.

A paved parking lot costs somewhere around $2500 per space. Structured parking is $25,000 and up per space. MCPS doesn't like structured parking!

The fact that BCC has parking beyond the bare minimum is ridiculous in a metro-accessible school on major bus lines with public parking garages 1.5 blocks away.

I agree. And the public parking garages have plenty of extra space, too.

I disagree. It’s bad enough I have to pay nearly $2 an hour to park to run an errand in Bethesda. It is not fair or reasonable to expect teachers to pay that hourly amount or pay round trip daily bus/metro fares (plus metro parking) to go to work at a suburban public high school.

It is not actually bad that you have to pay nearly $2 an hour to park to run an errand in Bethesda.

However, there is no reason MCPS couldn't provide their employees with a transit subsidy, just like many other employers in Montgomery County do: https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dot-dir/commuter/benefits/index.html

Or MCPS could even pay for their employees' parking in the empty county garages. It would still be cheaper than building structured parking.

A subsidy would only work if an employee lives near easy access to public transportation AND the school is AND is a reasonable commute .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extending Northwood's use of the holding school for three years is really a terrible thing. The community wanted a holding school in the DCC but MCPS forced Woodward, which families were at least ok with because it would be new.

But how long are the kids not going to have athletic facilities or performing arts spaces...for a school that has a performing arts academy?

Plus Northwood is one of the poorer schools and transportation is an issue. They are flat out going to be eliminating many parents from being able to engage at all with their child's school for up to 75% of their high school career.

What other options were there that were less bad than Woodward?

There was an option discussed of an urban campus in DTSS or utilizing space on the Adventist campus in TkPk. Both would have required MCPS to spend more money, though, so Woodward was the best option.

A lot more money, I'm guessing.

Yes.

https://go.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/BAEVW7736805/$file/Northwood%20HS%20Holding%20Ctr%20Eval%20MGT%20Consulting%20Grp%20190314%20PPT.pdf

?

It appears the costs were fractional of that required to build Woodward. There was also a failure of vision.

Why didn't they sue to void the ridiculous contract that rules the old Montgomery Hills JHS property and combine that with the Woodlin property (which ended up being demolished anyway) to make a HS-sized holding school, needing, then, only to find space for an ES? How about refurbish the old Blair as a holding school and find smaller spaces for SSIMS and SCES? Perhaps the complete old Parkside property, asking the private-use Acorn Hill Waldorf to move? Perhaps one of the other options rejected for a HS but suitable for a MS? Perhaps one of the other options for an area elementary school rejected a decade ago over vocal objection from community members participating in the review because MCPS presented jaded views of the options and wouldn't evaluate independent ideas? Too many sacred cows and not enough dedication to the area, in comparison to that given others (though not exactly great, there, either).

Sure, they don't want to spend $. But their mandate should be to provide reasonably equivalent educational services, including facilities, to each community in the county, not to provide similar funding to each. The "it's their turn" approach only works when the turns result in that equivalence and are jiggered to address, for the most part, whatever facilities are most presently at a deficit in relation to others -- not aimed simply to spread facility improvement activity across the county. Unfortunately, MCPS hasn't lived up to that.

They were already going to build Woodward regardless, as a new high school. The idea of using it as a holding school was not the original purpose. These costs would have been in addition to the Woodward costs, not instead of.

But I agree with your other suggestions that should have been considered.

They didn't move forward to approve Woodward until they had dispensed with the idea of a HS serving the lower DCC area, then justifying Woodward with the idea that it amd the Northwood expansion would do the job.

The language they used was nebulous, failing to provide any of the specifics that they floated as ideas offline to ensure support. Totally unsurprising that they'd been walking back the commitment bit by bit ever since, but I doubt they will be able to dispense with it entirely. Then again, if past behaviors tell us anything...

It would have been nice if they added a new DCC school but they had this land and property. They need to redraw all the lines but a DCC school makes no sense.

Um, it makes sense to place services where they are needed.

Then they need to add another school DCC not in Bethesda/Rockville for DCC kids.

There's a shortage of affordable real estate down county. Woodward works - barely - but it's small.

Housing is more affordable DCC. Woodward is no where near DCC. They need another hs dcc but that’s not happening. Multiple other schools also need replaced.

Where is the 30 to 40 acres an MCPS HS needs?

MCPS says minimum preferred site size of 35 acres. That's for their current school design, which is based on a site size of 35 acres. It's obviously possible to put a school on a smaller site (see BCC), but they would have to use a different school design. I don't know how much of their school design is based on "This is how we do it because this is how we do it," and how much is based on state requirements.

This big issue is that structured parking gets really expensive really quickly, and is really easy for students to misbehave in.

A paved parking lot costs somewhere around $2500 per space. Structured parking is $25,000 and up per space. MCPS doesn't like structured parking!

The fact that BCC has parking beyond the bare minimum is ridiculous in a metro-accessible school on major bus lines with public parking garages 1.5 blocks away.

I agree. And the public parking garages have plenty of extra space, too.

I disagree. It’s bad enough I have to pay nearly $2 an hour to park to run an errand in Bethesda. It is not fair or reasonable to expect teachers to pay that hourly amount or pay round trip daily bus/metro fares (plus metro parking) to go to work at a suburban public high school.

It is not actually bad that you have to pay nearly $2 an hour to park to run an errand in Bethesda.

However, there is no reason MCPS couldn't provide their employees with a transit subsidy, just like many other employers in Montgomery County do: https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/dot-dir/commuter/benefits/index.html

Or MCPS could even pay for their employees' parking in the empty county garages. It would still be cheaper than building structured parking.

Too many MCPS employees live in Frederick Co or beyond.

[Anonymous]

The Planning Board pushed for parking structures (because what's wrong with dark, secluded corners in a HS?) so the HSs could be built on smaller parcels of land. Surprised, no one wants to pay for the extra cost of the parking structures.

They are all silos (Planning Board, Council and MCPS - maybe even BOE is another), and while it's nice that they have a monthly or weekly phone call, it's BS: they are all only interested in their own power

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

[ModeratelyMoco]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Usually there is a class or two that continues the same schools for continuity but that is likely not decided yet. I am not sure if it is usually one class (rising 8th graders only) or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Planning Board pushed for parking structures (because what's wrong with dark, secluded corners in a HS?) so the HSs could be built on smaller parcels of land. Surprised, no one wants to pay for the extra cost of the parking structures.

They are all silos (Planning Board, Council and MCPS - maybe even BOE is another), and while it's nice that they have a monthly or weekly phone call, it's BS: they are all only interested in their own power

It’s easy for the planning board to push for these things because they don’t have to pay. At the same time planning pushes for more expensive schools, they’re pushing to reduce the taxes that pay for these things. MCPS never puts up a fight because they’re going to get money either way. It doesn’t matter to them how the county raises it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Rising 7th graders usually switch to the rezoned school. Rising 8th graders stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Rising 7th graders usually switch to the rezoned school. Rising 8th graders stay.

This is how they phrased it in the last MS boundary study, in Gaithersburg:

"Resolved, That for the middle schools, the boundary reassignments be implemented, beginning with Grade 6 and Grade 7 in the 2022–2023 school year and that students in Grade 8 remain in their current middle schools, followed by full implementation of Grades 6–8 in the 2023–2024 school year."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Rising 7th graders usually switch to the rezoned school. Rising 8th graders stay.

This is how they phrased it in the last MS boundary study, in Gaithersburg:

"Resolved, That for the middle schools, the boundary reassignments be implemented, beginning with Grade 6 and Grade 7 in the 2022–2023 school year and that students in Grade 8 remain in their current middle schools, followed by full implementation of Grades 6–8 in the 2023–2024 school year."

DP - thank you! Do you (or anyone else) know if there's any specific language for Grade 10 in these cases? What I found online suggests they'll have a choice whether to stay or change schools, but this thread has suggested they'll need to move. TIA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Rising 7th graders usually switch to the rezoned school. Rising 8th graders stay.

This is how they phrased it in the last MS boundary study, in Gaithersburg:

"Resolved, That for the middle schools, the boundary reassignments be implemented, beginning with Grade 6 and Grade 7 in the 2022–2023 school year and that students in Grade 8 remain in their current middle schools, followed by full implementation of Grades 6–8 in the 2023–2024 school year."

DP - thank you! Do you (or anyone else) know if there's any specific language for Grade 10 in these cases? What I found online suggests they'll have a choice whether to stay or change schools, but this thread has suggested they'll need to move. TIA.

The last time HS boundaries changed was with Clarksburg, Northwest, and Seneca Valley. It was more complicated. See pages 3-4:

https://gis.mcpsmd.org/boundarystudypdfs/SVHS_BOEResolution.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Planning Board pushed for parking structures (because what's wrong with dark, secluded corners in a HS?) so the HSs could be built on smaller parcels of land. Surprised, no one wants to pay for the extra cost of the parking structures.

They are all silos (Planning Board, Council and MCPS - maybe even BOE is another), and while it's nice that they have a monthly or weekly phone call, it's BS: they are all only interested in their own power

It’s easy for the planning board to push for these things because they don’t have to pay. At the same time planning pushes for more expensive schools, they’re pushing to reduce the taxes that pay for these things. MCPS never puts up a fight because they’re going to get money either way. It doesn’t matter to them how the county raises it.

The Planning Board is in the pockets of developers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Rising 7th graders usually switch to the rezoned school. Rising 8th graders stay.

This is how they phrased it in the last MS boundary study, in Gaithersburg:

"Resolved, That for the middle schools, the boundary reassignments be implemented, beginning with Grade 6 and Grade 7 in the 2022–2023 school year and that students in Grade 8 remain in their current middle schools, followed by full implementation of Grades 6–8 in the 2023–2024 school year."

DP - thank you! Do you (or anyone else) know if there's any specific language for Grade 10 in these cases? What I found online suggests they'll have a choice whether to stay or change schools, but this thread has suggested they'll need to move. TIA.

In the upcounty boundary study (Northwest-Seneca Valley-Clarksburg):

rising 9th graders went to the newly-assigned school (obviously they had never been at the previously-assigned school)
rising 10th graders went to the newly-assigned school
rising 11th graders stayed at the previously-assigned school
rising 12th graders stayed at the previously-assigned school

So the only students who actually changed schools were the rising 10th graders.

However, in that boundary study, all three schools were existing schools. It might be different with Woodward (and Crown), or Woodward (and Crown) would open with just 9th and 10th grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What happens to kids who are starting 10th grade when the new boundaries go in place? How would they decide who moves to Woodward since many DCC kids don’t attend their home high school?

It's a big question. I'm the person who posted about their DD who will be a junior. In my opinion (which means jack) they should start the school with a freshman class and build from there. If they do that though, how do they have sports teams? Do kids just miss our? I honestly have no idea. I really hope that they don't make juniors and seniors move though.

Juniors and seniors are typically allowed to remain at their previous schools. Sophomores are likely to be moved.

How do they do it for middle school? Do 7th graders get to stay or do they have to move?

Rising 7th graders, I mean. Do they get to stay where they started in 6th or do they have to switch and do 7th grade in a whole new school if the boundaries get redrawn?

Rising 7th graders usually switch to the rezoned school. Rising 8th graders stay.

This is how they phrased it in the last MS boundary study, in Gaithersburg:

"Resolved, That for the middle schools, the boundary reassignments be implemented, beginning with Grade 6 and Grade 7 in the 2022–2023 school year and that students in Grade 8 remain in their current middle schools, followed by full implementation of Grades 6–8 in the 2023–2024 school year."

DP - thank you! Do you (or anyone else) know if there's any specific language for Grade 10 in these cases? What I found online suggests they'll have a choice whether to stay or change schools, but this thread has suggested they'll need to move. TIA.

In the upcounty boundary study (Northwest-Seneca Valley-Clarksburg):

rising 9th graders went to the newly-assigned school (obviously they had never been at the previously-assigned school)
rising 10th graders went to the newly-assigned school
rising 11th graders stayed at the previously-assigned school
rising 12th graders stayed at the previously-assigned school

So the only students who actually changed schools were the rising 10th graders.

However, in that boundary study, all three schools were existing schools. It might be different with Woodward (and Crown), or Woodward (and Crown) would open with just 9th and 10th grades.

DP here who was part of the upcounty boundary study. It's all going to depend on what MCPS decides on the special programs. As you can see in the upcounty study, there were exceptions made for students in specific programs.

[Anonymous]

7:09 PP who asked about HS boundaries/reassignment here -

thanks to all who replied! It sounds like it will be complicated, but at this point, still possible that 10th graders could be reassigned when Woodward opens. My oldest will be in 10th grade then, hence my interest. Thanks again.